Doping in other sports?

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Bolt is clean.
Not one person on this site has proof he his doping....show me the money?
A few time sheets and data of doped runners mean nothing when you are talking about a athlete who has been smashing records clean since a young lad and IMO running to the full potential of his size. No history of doping young athletes in Jamaica and all those busts came after Bolt proved himself the greatest sprinter.

You have nuffink

Armstrong is clean.
Not one person on this site has proof he his doping....show me the money?
A few time sheets and data of doped riders mean nothing when you are talking about a athlete who has been smashing records clean since a young lad and IMO riding to his full potential. No history of doping young athletes in Texas and all those busts came after Armstrong proved himself the greatest cyclist.

" Show me the money ?" Did you see Oprah, he confessed
Because everyone else is doping and most are does not mean Bolt his. He's not.
Mentioning other athletes is just not relevant in Bolts case. He's a one of a kind sprinter.

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

Just like you are a "one of a kind" Ray

And in other news today

Life is definitely proven to have come from Mars
Humans are the ancestors of ancient spacemen - Fact
Pigs do fly but only when they have ensured no animal with cognitive ability is able to see them - Fact !!

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Bolt is clean.
Not one person on this site has proof he his doping....show me the money?
A few time sheets and data of doped runners mean nothing when you are talking about a athlete who has been smashing records clean since a young lad and IMO running to the full potential of his size. No history of doping young athletes in Jamaica and all those busts came after Bolt proved himself the greatest sprinter.

You have nuffink

Armstrong is clean.
Not one person on this site has proof he his doping....show me the money?
A few time sheets and data of doped riders mean nothing when you are talking about a athlete who has been smashing records clean since a young lad and IMO riding to his full potential. No history of doping young athletes in Texas and all those busts came after Armstrong proved himself the greatest cyclist.

" Show me the money ?" Did you see Oprah, he confessed
Because everyone else is doping and most are does not mean Bolt his. He's not.
Mentioning other athletes is just not relevant in Bolts case. He's a one of a kind sprinter.

You've said a couple of times that he's a unique athlete, and mostly in one breath with your opinion that he's clean.
Both are respectable opinions (Bolt being a unique athlete and Bolt being lean), but i don't see how the two things have any bearing on each other. Maybe you could expand on that?
For instance, I give you Messi, I give you Marion Jones, I give you Federer (not a proven doper, but still), I give you Merckx. All uniquely talented, generation-defining athletes, all dopers.

 

[Cloxxki]

Whereas Armstrong used pedaling technique as an excuse for high performance, with Bolt most will agree that there is no real room for improvement to result in measurable amounts of time to be won. Extremely small things. And I doubt an athlete ever lived to reach that level of technical perfection.

Bolt's height results in a certain weight. His leanness prevents unnecessary bulk to be brought along for the ride. This, mated to obviously super efficient muscle fibres and endurance to go to a 300m world best, make him dominant in his sport. Clean, he might actually have broken below 9.9 for 100m. There is no real hope or even indication of him being clean, though. His associations and dominance beoth increase the likelihood of substance abuse to near unavoidable, and his status beyond a positive test to be published. He's probably the most protected athlete of all time. Only a white British female might have done better in that respect

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Just like you are a "one of a kind" Ray

And in other news today

Life is definitely proven to have come from Mars
Humans are the ancestors of ancient spacemen - Fact
Pigs do fly but only when they have ensured no animal with cognitive ability is able to see them - Fact !!

Exactly proves my point. You have to get a dig in. Get over it

You should change out name to robertsorehead.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Bolt is clean.
Not one person on this site has proof he his doping....show me the money?
A few time sheets and data of doped runners mean nothing when you are talking about a athlete who has been smashing records clean since a young lad and IMO running to the full potential of his size. No history of doping young athletes in Jamaica and all those busts came after Bolt proved himself the greatest sprinter.

You have nuffink

Armstrong is clean.
Not one person on this site has proof he his doping....show me the money?
A few time sheets and data of doped riders mean nothing when you are talking about a athlete who has been smashing records clean since a young lad and IMO riding to his full potential. No history of doping young athletes in Texas and all those busts came after Armstrong proved himself the greatest cyclist.

" Show me the money ?" Did you see Oprah, he confessed
Because everyone else is doping and most are does not mean Bolt his. He's not.
Mentioning other athletes is just not relevant in Bolts case. He's a one of a kind sprinter.

You've said a couple of times that he's a unique athlete, and mostly in one breath with your opinion that he's clean.
Both are respectable opinions (Bolt being a unique athlete and Bolt being lean), but i don't see how the two things have any bearing on each other. Maybe you could expand on that?
For instance, I give you Messi, I give you Marion Jones, I give you Federer (not a proven doper, but still), I give you Merckx. All uniquely talented, generation-defining athletes, all dopers.

Hi sniper , when I look at Bolt run and I have seen footage of his early races IMO he looks like he his running to the full potential of his talent/ ability and physique.
I said before there is no suggestion of doping young athletes in Jamaica. Bolt has been smashing records since a young age, He's not appeared from nowhere.
He's the best sprinter we have ever seen "so far". He never doped at a young age and he does not need to dope so why would he.
I'm will be happy to admit I am wrong but no one on here as made me think any different.

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

Hi sniper , when I look at Bolt run and I have seen footage of his early races IMO he looks like he his running to the full potential of his talent/ ability and physique.
I said before there is no suggestion of doping young athletes in Jamaica. Bolt has been smashing records since a young age, He's not appeared from nowhere.
He's the best sprinter we have ever seen "so far". He never doped at a young age and he does not need to dope so why would he


In place of the above we look back a few years and replace with

When I look at armstrong I have seen him in early races where he destroyed multiple world champions at the age of 15 in triathlons
He was winning bike races from the age of 14, there is no evidence to point to doping of young athletes in america as there is no cycling competition to speak of, so why would they.
he is riding to the absolute limit of his abilities and in winning the world championship so young he defined a new era of athlete ability in cycling.
He is so talented and has had so much wrong with his health why would he dope.
And no one has provided anything to prove otherwise so he is still my idol and a clean athlete

EVEN THOUGH HE IS DOING THINGS NO OTHER HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET CAN DO AND ARE NOT REASONABLE PROGRESSIONS IN ANY SPORTING SENSE.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Re:

Hi sniper , when I look at Bolt run and I have seen footage of his early races IMO he looks like he his running to the full potential of his talent/ ability and physique.
I said before there is no suggestion of doping young athletes in Jamaica. Bolt has been smashing records since a young age, He's not appeared from nowhere.
He's the best sprinter we have ever seen "so far". He never doped at a young age and he does not need to dope so why would he


In place of the above we look back a few years and replace with

When I look at armstrong I have seen him in early races where he destroyed multiple world champions at the age of 15 in triathlons
He was winning bike races from the age of 14, there is no evidence to point to doping of young athletes in america as there is no cycling competition to speak of, so why would they.
he is riding to the absolute limit of his abilities and in winning the world championship so young he defined a new era of athlete ability in cycling.
He is so talented and has had so much wrong with his health why would he dope.
And no one has provided anything to prove otherwise so he is still my idol and a clean athlete

EVEN THOUGH HE IS DOING THINGS NO OTHER HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET CAN DO AND ARE NOT REASONABLE PROGRESSIONS IN ANY SPORTING SENSE.

Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Hang in there Ray. The best this guy can do is a mock you. There are all kinds of stupid people that annoy me but what annoys me most is a lazy argument.

 

[frenchfry]

French marathon runner Laïla Traby tested positive for EPO out of competition, her lawyer is going for conspiracy defence including questioning the Châtenay-Malabry lab. He is also using a similar defence strategy for middle distance runner Hassan Hirt also positive for EPO, though in his case the lab was Lausanne.

http://www.lemonde.fr/athletisme/article/2015/05/20/dopage-l-athlete-laila-traby-va-saisir-le-conseil-d-etat_4637221_1616661.html

 

[Tonton]

A couple of nuggets, like Carl's take on Bolt, and the best: Angel Heredia, Bolt's buddy and former BALCO mad scientist.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFEQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fchicago.cbslocal.com%2F2012%2F08%2F12%2Fbernstein-usain-bolt-is-probably-doping-and-you-know-it%2F&ei=DANdVbPCI9CHsQSAtoGACw&usg=AFQjCNGI2PXpxKwZJcWQppzdlIesBFIaOA&sig2=yj6EOug52TLJnLFsxgN99w

I like this paragraph: "There is another place where too many still exist, however, that is as intellectually dishonest as it is willfully ignorant, where convenient blind spots and emotionaI neediness cause otherwise intelligent people to create fairylands of childish naiveté. It is indefensible ground. The province of suckers".

Not me saying it

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Hi sniper , when I look at Bolt run and I have seen footage of his early races IMO he looks like he his running to the full potential of his talent/ ability and physique.
I said before there is no suggestion of doping young athletes in Jamaica. Bolt has been smashing records since a young age, He's not appeared from nowhere.
He's the best sprinter we have ever seen "so far". He never doped at a young age and he does not need to dope so why would he


In place of the above we look back a few years and replace with

When I look at armstrong I have seen him in early races where he destroyed multiple world champions at the age of 15 in triathlons
He was winning bike races from the age of 14, there is no evidence to point to doping of young athletes in america as there is no cycling competition to speak of, so why would they.
he is riding to the absolute limit of his abilities and in winning the world championship so young he defined a new era of athlete ability in cycling.
He is so talented and has had so much wrong with his health why would he dope.
And no one has provided anything to prove otherwise so he is still my idol and a clean athlete

EVEN THOUGH HE IS DOING THINGS NO OTHER HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET CAN DO AND ARE NOT REASONABLE PROGRESSIONS IN ANY SPORTING SENSE.

Now and then in life people can surprise you and do great things. Bolt is one of these people.

 

[The Hitch]

A couple of nuggets, like Carl's take on Bolt, and the best: Angel Heredia, Bolt's buddy and former BALCO mad scientist.

Where did you hear that?

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Bolt is clean.
Not one person on this site has proof he his doping....show me the money?
A few time sheets and data of doped runners mean nothing when you are talking about a athlete who has been smashing records clean since a young lad and IMO running to the full potential of his size. No history of doping young athletes in Jamaica and all those busts came after Bolt proved himself the greatest sprinter.

You have nuffink

Armstrong is clean.
Not one person on this site has proof he his doping....show me the money?
A few time sheets and data of doped riders mean nothing when you are talking about a athlete who has been smashing records clean since a young lad and IMO riding to his full potential. No history of doping young athletes in Texas and all those busts came after Armstrong proved himself the greatest cyclist.

" Show me the money ?" Did you see Oprah, he confessed
Because everyone else is doping and most are does not mean Bolt his. He's not.
Mentioning other athletes is just not relevant in Bolts case. He's a one of a kind sprinter.

You've said a couple of times that he's a unique athlete, and mostly in one breath with your opinion that he's clean.
Both are respectable opinions (Bolt being a unique athlete and Bolt being lean), but i don't see how the two things have any bearing on each other. Maybe you could expand on that?
For instance, I give you Messi, I give you Marion Jones, I give you Federer (not a proven doper, but still), I give you Merckx. All uniquely talented, generation-defining athletes, all dopers.

Hi sniper , when I look at Bolt run and I have seen footage of his early races IMO he looks like he his running to the full potential of his talent/ ability and physique.
I said before there is no suggestion of doping young athletes in Jamaica. Bolt has been smashing records since a young age, He's not appeared from nowhere.
He's the best sprinter we have ever seen "so far". He never doped at a young age and he does not need to dope so why would he.
I'm will be happy to admit I am wrong but no one on here as made me think any different.

I disagree with the claim that he 'does not need to dope' (imo we can't really tell, unfortunately), and the follow up statement 'so why would he' (well, to be even faster and secure more records, for instance).
but fair enough. his youth performances are certainly interesting and a fair indicator of his natural ability (which he no doubt has plenty of),
yet I wouldn't put my hand in the fire for young athletes in Jamaica not being seduced to dope. It is a pretty poor country, so the potential socio-economic gains are obvious.

What in your view are the gains an average 100-meter sprinter could get when on a good program?

 

[Tonton]

A couple of nuggets, like Carl's take on Bolt, and the best: Angel Heredia, Bolt's buddy and former BALCO mad scientist.

Where did you hear that?

That's in the article: "Bolt reportedly has been working with Angel Hernandez, too. Hernandez used to be called Angel Heredia, back when he was a chemist for BALCO".

 

[The Hitch]

A couple of nuggets, like Carl's take on Bolt, and the best: Angel Heredia, Bolt's buddy and former BALCO mad scientist.

Where did you hear that?

That's in the article: "Bolt reportedly has been working with Angel Hernandez, too. Hernandez used to be called Angel Heredia, back when he was a chemist for BALCO".

Ok.

The Bolt Heredia link comes up every now and again on this thread, but to my knowledge the original source for that was a misunderstanding. It was on a blog and some articles (including this one I think) took that info from the blog, but if you followed the links you would reach a dead end.

 

[Tonton]

The Hitch, here's another one...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftenpercentorless.blogspot.com%2F2012%2F08%2Fwant-to-run-958-speak-to-bolts-chemist.html&ei=f8ddVan9J5KxsATX7YCQDg&usg=AFQjCNEr8SO95UE8AgDmnkGmFXXpoc0tIg&sig2=0ZYkSDFWpk1yeDU7CXkVkw

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The Hitch, here's another one...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftenpercentorless.blogspot.com%2F2012%2F08%2Fwant-to-run-958-speak-to-bolts-chemist.html&ei=f8ddVan9J5KxsATX7YCQDg&usg=AFQjCNEr8SO95UE8AgDmnkGmFXXpoc0tIg&sig2=0ZYkSDFWpk1yeDU7CXkVkw

He'll dismiss that as a blog post.

 

[skippythepinhead]

The Hitch, here's another one...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftenpercentorless.blogspot.com%2F2012%2F08%2Fwant-to-run-958-speak-to-bolts-chemist.html&ei=f8ddVan9J5KxsATX7YCQDg&usg=AFQjCNEr8SO95UE8AgDmnkGmFXXpoc0tIg&sig2=0ZYkSDFWpk1yeDU7CXkVkw

He'll dismiss that as a blog post.

Best comment on that article: the 2nd, 3rd , 4th, and 5th fastest Jamaican male sprinters, ever, have all been caught doping since 2010. all except #1 - Bolt. they train together, compete together, relay together. why risk giving drugs to a guy ranked 5th best and not give drugs to the number one athlete?! why put all that effort in to your countries 5th best sprinter?! "give it to him, he's f**ked, but not Bolt, he'll be fine". the truth is you wouldn't. you give the top guys the top drugs and the top doctors. read the facts, use your brain and reason. look between the lines. this guy is doping.

hypothetically, if we all found out that tomorrow Jamaica were going to once and for all definitively show the truth... if they were going to prove unequivocally 100% that Bolt was clean or dirty... if you KNEW the truth was finally coming tomorrow. if you HAD to choose, where would you bet your life savings? dirty as dishwater.

 

[Tonton]

A couple of nuggets, like Carl's take on Bolt, and the best: Angel Heredia, Bolt's buddy and former BALCO mad scientist.

Where did you hear that?

That's in the article: "Bolt reportedly has been working with Angel Hernandez, too. Hernandez used to be called Angel Heredia, back when he was a chemist for BALCO".

Ok.

The Bolt Heredia link comes up every now and again on this thread, but to my knowledge the original source for that was a misunderstanding. It was on a blog and some articles (including this one I think) took that info from the blog, but if you followed the links you would reach a dead end.

Highlighted: if not, that would be the evidence, game, set, and match. I'm not the one who will expose/prove Bolt's doping from my couch . But in response to the few Bolt defenders, I want to stress through these contributions that guilt by association is no proof, but there are elements out there that can't be ignored. The Wonderboy story should have opened up some eyes. I see too many similarities, including in the rhetoric, the running websites/forums threads make me chuckle: replace Armstrong/Bolt, Ferrari/Heredia, cycling/T&F, it is the CN forum discussions about Lance 3-4 years ago. The truth will eventually come out.

 

[The Hitch]

The truth never came out for Indurain and many others. Unfortuantely it doesn't always come out.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

The truth never came out for Indurain and many others. Unfortuantely it doesn't always come out.

Unortunately it doesn't. Although in Bolt's case, the perfs are too big, the guy is too flashy, the scrutiny will remain super high for a long time. BigMig was quiet, retired quietly...it helped.

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

The funnniest thing about this line is that you wrote it.

Between you and Ray you manage to completely prove that this line is completely true.
Along with another famous quote

Those who chose to forget or ignore past events are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Belive in th fact that a random human being can challenge the known paradigm of humanly possible achievements and domination and can be surrounded by a sport full of doping athletes and still be faster than all of them while clean.

Unfortunately and as sad as this is you two will be the ones looking stupid when the truth finally comes to light.

However what is even more unfortunate is that you probably already know that but the fact you have made a statement and your inability to admit to yourself that you are wrong, gullible, stubborn and cannot be seen to be changing tack. That is probably going to sit in the pit of your stomach until you are proved wrong and niggle away at you.

I feel sorry for you to be honest.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

"... inability to admit to yourself that you are wrong, gullible, stubborn"

You hit the nail. Actually it´s three guys who keep on trolling (next to RayRay, it´s CanuckRob & Armclimber*), instead they man up and admit that they are wrong. So just stop feeding the trolls. They are helpless.
Otherwise great posts by you, Tonton, and the others who contributed greatly to the discussion about Bolt´s doping.

(* May Armclimber saw his mistake, and thus stopped posting. That would be least a half admission that he is wrong about Bolt)

 

[Cloxxki]

Gatlin...
Comes out saying he was not welcome (for obvious reasons) to run in Beijing. So he flew back home.
Event promotors come out and say they fully expected him to compete, no idea why he would say such a thing and miss out on the race.

Someone didn't want to be in Beijing long enough to be called up for a doping test, methinks. Comes up with a he-said-she-said scenario to have an excuse to get the heck outtathere. Perhaps an in-team urine test showed that he was going to be glowing red hot upon arrival there, too much risk to hang around?
All my speculation, I have only seen the reports of Gatlin and the event promotor talking to the press. Gatlin did not speak to the promoter apparently.

 

[Catwhoorg]

In and Out, probably updating whereabouts at the last moment when he does so.

Very suspect, but then I have no doubt whatsoever Gatlin is still doping.