Doping in other sports?

[Dear Wiggo]

Love the way he has no oxygen debt at the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ELDj_Ibnc

 

[SeriousSam]

One of the yt comments..

He might be 'clean' now but the effects of the drugs he took are still in his body and am pretty sure he knows this...He probably even knew he would be likely to get caught the first time and be able to come back even better once he kept training (which he did)

Oh dear.

That study on rats did serious damage to Joe Blow's understanding of the prevalence of doping in sports.

 

[motty89]

Salazar under investigation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32877702

Documentary about it tonight on BBC1 at 9pm

 

[SeriousSam]

Oh no, the training partner and friend of clean Mo Farah is implicated. A clean hero, surrounded by dopers, faster than them all. Where have we seen that before?

 

[ray j willings]

I remember posting about the Nike Oregon project on the BR forum . They went bonkers. Mo a doper " are you the devil"
Its a shame this is only being shown in Scotland , why not on BBC nationwide? Oh yeah , "Us Brits don't cheat"
I wonder if they will put it up on the I player ?
Do the BEEB have the balls?

 

[wansteadimp]

Re:

I remember posting about the Nike Oregon project on the BR forum . They went bonkers. Mo a doper " are you the devil"
Its a shame this is only being shown in Scotland , why not on BBC nationwide? Oh yeah , "Us Brits don't cheat"
I wonder if they will put it up on the I player ?
Do the BEEB have the balls?

Its scheduled to be on BBC1 in London at 9pm tonight, the bit at the bottom of the linked article is a bit of a give away about it being on the iplayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32877702

 

[the sceptic]

Farah will stop being british if he is implicated in anything so this won't be nearly as satisfying as if they had managed to take down Radcliffe.

 

[hulkgogan]

Rupp, who is one of America's most drug tested athletes, strenuously denied ever using testosterone or testosterone medication.

Where have I heard this before?

 

[Bronstein]

Detailed article by David Epstein - https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rules.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

I remember posting about the Nike Oregon project on the BR forum . They went bonkers. Mo a doper " are you the devil"
Its a shame this is only being shown in Scotland , why not on BBC nationwide? Oh yeah , "Us Brits don't cheat"
I wonder if they will put it up on the I player ?
Do the BEEB have the balls?

Its scheduled to be on BBC1 in London at 9pm tonight, the bit at the bottom of the linked article is a bit of a give away about it being on the iplayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32877702

Just had a look thanks. When I posted the guide on my TV was showing a NHS thing.

I need to pay more attention , Trying to get the kids sorted for bed ....cheers

 

[armchairclimber]

This will be the same BBC that are frequently accused of "looking the other way"....being partisan etc. It will be interesting to see if Travis goes after Alberto.

 

[armchairclimber]

Re:

the climber gonna become armchair stoner

Ha, no chance. I'm too old....I'd just fall asleep, and I don't really want to waste time on Jamaica being asleep.
I want to be busy loving my job.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

One of the yt comments..

He might be 'clean' now but the effects of the drugs he took are still in his body and am pretty sure he knows this...He probably even knew he would be likely to get caught the first time and be able to come back even better once he kept training (which he did)

Oh dear.

That study on rats did serious damage to Joe Blow's understanding of the prevalence of doping in sports.

IIRC the study on rats said doping can still help a few years after taking the product.

What the guy above is claiming is something else entirely. That drugs become more effecitve 10 years after you take them than they are when you originally consume them.

Sounds similar to Brailsford's explanation of Bilharzia actually.

The PED's upon entering the blood stream, settle into the liver where they they lay eggs which hatch and create more PED's which even if destroyed will lay more eggs which hatch therefore creating a horrific cycle that can never be stopped.

Because of this, they then do not show up on tests, which should be taken once every few days but instead only occur once every 6 months. The false negative test results in experts falsely announcing that the PED's are no longer present, but in reality, it might later turn out, they actually were.

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

This will be the same BBC that are frequently accused of "looking the other way"....being partisan etc. It will be interesting to see if Travis goes after Alberto.

well, they certainly buried their heads in the sand when they had the chance to bring down Radcliffe.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Farah will stop being british if he is implicated in anything so this won't be nearly as satisfying as if they had managed to take down Radcliffe.

I think Farah is easily safe.

I mean if Radcliffe actually appeared on a list as a doper which dozens of journalists have seen, and everyone is perfectly fine with it, Farah working with a guy who doped people is not going to take him down.

I mean its not like the hero's of clean sport are viewed as tainted by these people despite working with Jullich and Lienders and a bunch of others who we know were also doping their athletes.

I've heard a lot of mention to Salazar's "scientific techniques". Kind of like you know who. And like with Brailsfraud they don't seem to come up with any explanation on what these are and how they actually help and why someone would use them instead of drugs which clearly do help.

Still situation is a bit strange to me. I'm surprised to see BBC go after someone so closely connected to one of the big "heroes" of the olympics. This is a network that gave you the 2012 olympic coverage.

2 explanations come to mind. 1 is that a few departments within the beeb are given very high degrees of independence and allowed to produce quality work. I remember seeing BBC This World produce a documentary on Rwanda last year that I could never imagine making it onto the main channels.
The other is that Farah hasn't proved himself to be as markatable as was hoped or even that the 15 minutes are over. The 2012 Olympics like any sporting event are 99% about making people fell good THEN. No one wants the "legacy" tarnished, but at the same time there isn't the same motivation to shield every single athlete from reputation damage, that there would have been 3 years ago.

 

[Cycle Chic]

But if Kara Goucher is clean and she was beating Radcliffe, then surely Radcliffe is clean ??

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

But if Kara Goucher is clean and she was beating Radcliffe, then surely Radcliffe is clean ??

Are you being serious?

Whether someone is clean or not depends on whether they took drugs. Not their absolute or relative performance.

Absolute and relative performances can provide evidence of doping, but just because athlete A finishes behind a "clean" athlete B does not make athlete A clean by default.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re: Re:

But if Kara Goucher is clean and she was beating Radcliffe, then surely Radcliffe is clean ??

Are you being serious?

Whether someone is clean or not depends on whether they took drugs. Not their absolute or relative performance.

Absolute and relative performances can provide evidence of doping, but just because athlete A finishes behind a "clean" athlete B does not make athlete A clean by default.

But if the effects of EPO are so dramatic then you are saying that Goucher is so much more talented than Radcliffe - doesnt add up.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Who said Kara Goucher is clean?

Your reasoning is flawed, that's all I am pointing out.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

But if Kara Goucher is clean and she was beating Radcliffe, then surely Radcliffe is clean ??

I hope I don't sound like I'm vouching for Kara, but given that her best marathon is nearly 10 minutes slower (11 minutes for a non-aided course), and her best 10,000m nearly a minute slower (54"), and that they are 5 years apart in age need to factor. Goucher has beaten Radcliffe, sure: in 2007, Kara set her half marathon PB while Radcliffe came in 30 seconds behind, running slower than her Marathon pace...

EPO is powerful. But there is so much more to performance than how big your dose is.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re:

Who said Kara Goucher is clean?

Your reasoning is flawed, that's all I am pointing out.

If Goucher was doping you wouldnt expect her to be the Whistleblower on Salazar and the Oregon Project.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Landis is a whistleblower yeah?

I get what you're saying but don't think it still follows that one is definitely clean based on the performance of the other or their relative performance.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Kara left in 2011. So she beat Radcliffe when she was till being coached by Salazar.

What's statue of limitations now? Does she have to confess to doping in 2007 given it's now 8 years later? What were her performances like after leaving Salazar?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Landis is a whistleblower yeah?

I get what you're saying but don't think it still follows that one is definitely clean based on the performance of the other or their relative performance.

yeah, its a logical fallacy. all the dope in the world and I would struggle to make Cat 1. And a half talented clean Cat 1 would whoop the floor with me and my doped ass

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Farah will stop being british if he is implicated in anything so this won't be nearly as satisfying as if they had managed to take down Radcliffe.

I think Farah is easily safe.

I mean if Radcliffe actually appeared on a list as a doper which dozens of journalists have seen, and everyone is perfectly fine with it, Farah working with a guy who doped people is not going to take him down.

I mean its not like the hero's of clean sport are viewed as tainted by these people despite working with Jullich and Lienders and a bunch of others who we know were also doping their athletes.

I've heard a lot of mention to Salazar's "scientific techniques". Kind of like you know who. And like with Brailsfraud they don't seem to come up with any explanation on what these are and how they actually help and why someone would use them instead of drugs which clearly do help.

Still situation is a bit strange to me. I'm surprised to see BBC go after someone so closely connected to one of the big "heroes" of the olympics. This is a network that gave you the 2012 olympic coverage.

2 explanations come to mind. 1 is that a few departments within the beeb are given very high degrees of independence and allowed to produce quality work. I remember seeing BBC This World produce a documentary on Rwanda last year that I could never imagine making it onto the main channels.
The other is that Farah hasn't proved himself to be as markatable as was hoped or even that the 15 minutes are over. The 2012 Olympics like any sporting event are 99% about making people fell good THEN. No one wants the "legacy" tarnished, but at the same time there isn't the same motivation to shield every single athlete from reputation damage, that there would have been 3 years ago.

I was shocked as well when I saw it was on the BBC.
I think since the report has come out they have not made a big issue as they could have concerning the implications for Mo.
I just don't trust the media so I think your right, for Mo it will go away.
I mean there is no Fu%%ing way that all those involved with that report can think Rudd is the only one taking PED's.
I hate Tygart, but maybe he has the sort of stubborn independence that could blow the whole thing open.
I just don't see the Beeb digging any deeper.
I thought the stuff on Alan Wells was a complete waste of time. I mean that was years ago.
It's like saying Merckx doped ,,,no one gives a sh%t.
Like I Said , Mo his a mainstream media figure they will not want him busted.
I'm off to have some Quorn