Doping in Soccer/Football

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Mar 19, 2011
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fenns said:
Sorry if this has been covered before but, given how open the EPL has been this season, do we know if doping control has been tightened up in some way?
Don't know how to answer that one looking at what I perceive. English teams are not flying in Europe, but then you look at Leicester and they don't have the right to be where they are.
 
Jul 15, 2010
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Albatros said:
fenns said:
Sorry if this has been covered before but, given how open the EPL has been this season, do we know if doping control has been tightened up in some way?
Don't know how to answer that one looking at what I perceive. English teams are not flying in Europe, but then you look at Leicester and they don't have the right to be where they are.
If Jamie Vardy isn't doping, I'll eat my hat...
 
Re: Re:

Albatros said:
The Hitch said:
Freakish thing with messi is though, it's basically been 3 years since he's had a rest. He plays every game for Barcelona, all 90 minutes, doesn't rest even if the game is already won (like against Arsenal in the champions league this year or Bayern last year), and in both 2014 and 2015 he took Argentina all the way to the final in an international competition.
Cristiano output is far more impressive. He plays in every game too, but works much harder than Messi.

If you watch Messi his explosive efforts have been reduced to a minimum. Cristiano on the other hand was the player who made more intensity runs per game in the Premier League and has continued in the same vain in Spain up to the age of 31.
Messi at 28 is a walking zombie for the majority of the game.
Interesting. Which teams did Christiano take to the finals of the world cup and Copa America finals last 2 summers?
 
Feb 6, 2016
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While I disagree with Albatros, it is true that CR7 and Messi are completely different players. Messi has made rather less of his accelerations for the last few years, especially now he's drifting in as a 10 from the wing; he relies on his dribbling and eye for a pass, where Ronaldo is simple brute strength. Messi's work rate is low compared to Ronaldo's (then again, who's isn't?), but that only makes him a greater footballer, more reliant on skill than athleticism. CR7 has not had much more rest than Messi, but he plays much more intensely and with much more emphasis on physical power. Both are likely doping, but I have to say I think Ronaldo is dependent and reliant on the drugs for his success to a huge extent, much more than Messi. (Also, much as I love Messi, he hardly dragged his team to the WC and CA finals. The last time I checked, Agüero (reigning EPL top scorer) Lavezzi, Higuain (current capocannoniere), Di Maria, Mascherano, Tevez and so on are hardly mediocrities; Ronaldo, on the other hand, had Nani.)
 
Apr 3, 2016
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slowspoke said:
Albatros said:
fenns said:
Sorry if this has been covered before but, given how open the EPL has been this season, do we know if doping control has been tightened up in some way?
Don't know how to answer that one looking at what I perceive. English teams are not flying in Europe, but then you look at Leicester and they don't have the right to be where they are.
If Jamie Vardy isn't doping, I'll eat my hat...
I was at the Sunderland vs Leicester game today, and for the last 15 - 20 minutes, our right back Patrick van anholt was absolutely knackered. Fullbacks are often the fittest on the pitch charging up and down for full 90 minutes, and while PVA was struggling to get back at all the whole Leicester team still looked fresh as anything. Sunderland also kicked lumps out of them, like i suspect most teams will have done to try and negate this constant running, which makes their lack of injuries more suspicious.
 
Re:

Cannibal72 said:
While I disagree with Albatros, it is true that CR7 and Messi are completely different players. Messi has made rather less of his accelerations for the last few years, especially now he's drifting in as a 10 from the wing; he relies on his dribbling and eye for a pass, where Ronaldo is simple brute strength. Messi's work rate is low compared to Ronaldo's (then again, who's isn't?), but that only makes him a greater footballer, more reliant on skill than athleticism. CR7 has not had much more rest than Messi, but he plays much more intensely and with much more emphasis on physical power. Both are likely doping, but I have to say I think Ronaldo is dependent and reliant on the drugs for his success to a huge extent, much more than Messi. (Also, much as I love Messi, he hardly dragged his team to the WC and CA finals. The last time I checked, Agüero (reigning EPL top scorer) Lavezzi, Higuain (current capocannoniere), Di Maria, Mascherano, Tevez and so on are hardly mediocrities; Ronaldo, on the other hand, had Nani.)
The point was that he played in those games. In the world cup didn't they do 3 consecutive 120 minute games as well? He's doing that till July every year, he's getting very little off season.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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They beat Belgium in 90 minutes, but it took penalties for them to get past Holland and the final was settled in extra time. He is getting taken off more and more now, it seems. If I remember rightly, he doesn't train that much either, but that could be wrong.

On both Messi and Leicester: I understand the most significant use of PEDs in football is in recovery from injuries. I don't imagine they can be used proactively (i.e. to prevent injuries in the first place), aside from the obvious points about increasing fitness and thus reducing likelihood of muscle problems, but I think that accelerating a return to fitness after problems is going to be a key. If I was a conspiracy theorist who didn't support Chelsea, I'd spin a yarn about Carneiro, but I'm not and I do respectively.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Cannibal72 said:
I understand the most significant use of PEDs in football is in recovery from injuries.

snip

...but I think that accelerating a return to fitness after problems is going to be a key.

nah, i reckon it is the P E element of PED.

and the new thresholds the body is put thru, this creates more injuries.

losing weight thru peptides like lipotropin and GW and Aicar. But maintaining their functional muscle mass, and their power to weight goes thru the roof, even tho gravity and Alpe d'Huez climbing aint a major issue.

But... it does help speed and agility off the mark.
 
Cannibal72 said:
They beat Belgium in 90 minutes, but it took penalties for them to get past Holland and the final was settled in extra time. He is getting taken off more and more now, it seems. If I remember rightly, he doesn't train that much either, but that could be wrong.

On both Messi and Leicester: I understand the most significant use of PEDs in football is in recovery from injuries. I don't imagine they can be used proactively (i.e. to prevent injuries in the first place), aside from the obvious points about increasing fitness and thus reducing likelihood of muscle problems, but I think that accelerating a return to fitness after problems is going to be a key. If I was a conspiracy theorist who didn't support Chelsea, I'd spin a yarn about Carneiro, but I'm not and I do respectively.
Ok, not consecutive, but they also went 120 minutes against Switzerland.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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blackcat said:
Cannibal72 said:
I understand the most significant use of PEDs in football is in recovery from injuries.

snip

...but I think that accelerating a return to fitness after problems is going to be a key.

nah, i reckon it is the P E element of PED.

and the new thresholds the body is put thru, this creates more injuries.

losing weight thru peptides like lipotropin and GW and Aicar. But maintaining their functional muscle mass, and their power to weight goes thru the roof, even tho gravity and Alpe d'Huez climbing aint a major issue.

But... it does help speed and agility off the mark.
Agreed on this.

Found this article rather interesting: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/leicester-city-finances-football-league-financial-fair-play-investigation

One owner of a club in the Championship in the 2013-14 season, who did not want to be named because he said the league investigation has to run its course, said: “What Leicester did looks like financial doping by the owners, while other clubs were complying with the rules we all agreed.”
A morally upstanding team!
 
May 14, 2010
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blackcat said:
Cannibal72 said:
I understand the most significant use of PEDs in football is in recovery from injuries.

snip

...but I think that accelerating a return to fitness after problems is going to be a key.

nah, i reckon it is the P E element of PED.

and the new thresholds the body is put thru, this creates more injuries.

losing weight thru peptides like lipotropin and GW and Aicar. But maintaining their functional muscle mass, and their power to weight goes thru the roof, even tho gravity and Alpe d'Huez climbing aint a major issue.

But... it does help speed and agility off the mark.
Agreed. Aicar and drugs like it are a miracle for training. Always in the past the insurmountable problem was how to lose weight without losing muscle and power. Aicar lets you do this. But recovery is important, too.

If you lose weight without diminishing muscle density and strength, and then aid recovery with EPO, HGH, etc., you can train much longer and more frequently without becoming overtrained, and your plateaus are much briefer. Then enhance aerobic capacity with EPO-like drugs, and enhance muscle growth with testosterone, and you don't need genetic doping, you are genetic doping.

My knowledge of training drugs is minimal, but I imagine a doctor well-versed in this stuff could create the six-million dollar man - who would then go on to bring in hundreds of millions in endorsements.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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gooner said:
A regular comment you hear in the football world. Take a bow Gary Lineker.

This from a presenter who should be asking tough questions of it.



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/gary-lineker-leicester-interview-match-of-the-day-premier-league-2016
thanks for this. wtf indeed.
only question i have: is he really that ignorant or does he know fully well what is going on and is just pretending to be ignorant? With Lineker I'm not sure.

I heard very similar comments from Juergen Klopp last year, and in his case you can be sure that he knows what's going on behind the scenes, and that he's just pretending to be ignorant.
 
Jun 10, 2013
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Real Madrid is a perfect example of a mediocre team skill-wise performing on their absolute top due to unmatchable physique and endurance. They've done it for years.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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sniper said:
gooner said:
A regular comment you hear in the football world. Take a bow Gary Lineker.

This from a presenter who should be asking tough questions of it.



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/gary-lineker-leicester-interview-match-of-the-day-premier-league-2016
thanks for this. wtf indeed.
only question i have: is he really that ignorant or does he know fully well what is going on and is just pretending to be ignorant? With Lineker I'm not sure.

I heard very similar comments from Juergen Klopp last year, and in his case you can be sure that he knows what's going on behind the scenes, and that he's just pretending to be ignorant.
Lineker is an ex-Leicester player and has been roaring them on to win the league all season. I see this as his way of trying to distance Leicester from any link to their success from it.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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I think Lineker's position could best be described as 'wilfully blind'. Yes, he is that ignorant, but he's choosing to be ignorant. What interested me when I saw that line a couple of days ago was how prevalent doping was in football back in the 1980s, when he was playing; if anyone was doing it then, surely Barcelona was, and he was there at the time. (Any PEDs that make you more likely to need to...relieve yourself?)
 
Its more than just defending Leceister.

Linekar is a BBC football presenter. He gets his money from reading off a teleprompter every week as the nation tunes in to watch football.

He wants people to believe football is clean because football is his job. Same way Cram lies about how athletics is clean, or countless examples in cycling.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

The Hitch said:
Its more than just defending Leceister.

Linekar is a BBC football presenter. He gets his money from reading off a teleprompter every week as the nation tunes in to watch football.

He wants people to believe football is clean because football is his job. Same way Cram lies about how athletics is clean, or countless examples in cycling.
david gilbert is the Australian equivalent to Coe, long jumper. two ways. long jumper

#ladymacbeth
#dothprotesttooloudmethinks

#EPOchearsout!
#damePaula
 
Apr 14, 2015
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Absolutely. Lineker will definitely be aware (as should all inside the enormous football media industry) but is merely keeping his rather large contract intact.
 
May 31, 2011
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Lineker is on the gear just now! Midlife crisis (although an enviable crisis tbh) when he dumped his wife and started dating models in their 20s.

Probably put onto it by his brother who also has an impressive physique for his age and is an all round dodgy geezer.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Re:

The Hitch said:
Its more than just defending Leceister.

Linekar is a BBC football presenter. He gets his money from reading off a teleprompter every week as the nation tunes in to watch football.

He wants people to believe football is clean because football is his job. Same way Cram lies about how athletics is clean, or countless examples in cycling.
Yes.

Definitely in a general sense he sees it but I still think Leicester were at the forefront of his thinking.

Much of the interview before he said that comment was about his support of Leicester as a child, playing for them and talking about the possibility of winning the league.

Lineker doesn't want any of this Bonar association to continue to distract from what Leicester are doing.
 
Jan 20, 2010
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sniper said:
gooner said:
A regular comment you hear in the football world. Take a bow Gary Lineker.

This from a presenter who should be asking tough questions of it.



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/gary-lineker-leicester-interview-match-of-the-day-premier-league-2016
thanks for this. wtf indeed.
only question i have: is he really that ignorant or does he know fully well what is going on and is just pretending to be ignorant? With Lineker I'm not sure.

I heard very similar comments from Juergen Klopp last year, and in his case you can be sure that he knows what's going on behind the scenes, and that he's just pretending to be ignorant.
Hard to say, I have come across top sportsman (ball sports) from that era who have absolutely no clue about the magnitude of doping and how sports and drugs have changed since the 90's.

He could actually be that stupid or naive to believe what he says is true.
 
Night Rider said:
sniper said:
gooner said:
A regular comment you hear in the football world. Take a bow Gary Lineker.

This from a presenter who should be asking tough questions of it.



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/gary-lineker-leicester-interview-match-of-the-day-premier-league-2016
thanks for this. wtf indeed.
only question i have: is he really that ignorant or does he know fully well what is going on and is just pretending to be ignorant? With Lineker I'm not sure.

I heard very similar comments from Juergen Klopp last year, and in his case you can be sure that he knows what's going on behind the scenes, and that he's just pretending to be ignorant.
Hard to say, I have come across top sportsman (ball sports) from that era who have absolutely no clue about the magnitude of doping and how sports and drugs have changed since the 90's.

He could actually be that stupid or naive to believe what he says is true.
Did they have no clue or where they deliberately lying?

Eg, Matthew Pinsent had a twitter war with some of the sceptics last year. He was giving out all the usual sceptic lines that we see the sockpuppets here make when they star their accounts and want to build up some profile. "I just don't think PR doped" " i haven't seen anything to suggest that" "innocent until proven guilty" etc. All very much like his carefully constructed calm gentle giant persona on the BBC would suggest.

But then he got a bit full of himself and started to suggest that he had science on his side whereas the sceptics just have assumptions. Science trumps assumptions he boasted.

Until he was asked precisely what science he was referring to that suggested all these athletes he shares his BBC studio with our clean.

All of a sudden, Matthew Pinsent declared that he was tired with the conversation, and logged off twitter.

They make out like they are ignorant. Thee people are very good at lying and have perfected it for years. Look at all those dopers like Armstrong etc, who swore to the cameras they had never taken drugs. Their declarations are so convincing, millions believe them and then get very aggressive and unpleasant in defending them, because the answer seems so genuine.
 

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