Doping in Soccer/Football

[carolina]

How exactly does running over 10 or even 11 km within that time frame not constitute to football being an endurance sport? Sure, they're not running all the time, but they must be running enough of the time for it to count as an endurance sport, if they're going to get to distances like that. By just walking for an hour and a half you won't get to those distances.

if you "run" at 7 km/h for 90 minutes you would get 10,5 km.

7 km/h is jogging.

 

[lenric]

Football obviously requires endurance. However, it's an explosive sport, because the most important thing athletically speaking is your capacity of acceleration. Same thing with American Football.

 

[carolina]

They need some endurance, but not to the point where it would be incompatible with carrying a significant amount of muscle mass. Unlike cyclists, soccer players actually have an advantage in having a good amount of muscle mass.

 

[Archibald]

How exactly does running over 10 or even 11 km within that time frame not constitute to football being an endurance sport? Sure, they're not running all the time, but they must be running enough of the time for it to count as an endurance sport, if they're going to get to distances like that. By just walking for an hour and a half you won't get to those distances.

if you "run" at 7 km/h for 90 minutes you would get 10,5 km.

7 km/h is jogging.

except that this 10-11km "jog" is full of sprint intervals that are not evenly spaced, timed or distanced...

 

[carolina]

that's another reason for me not to consider soccer has an endurance sport. it's not a big distance, they don't play for a long time and it's not a continuous effort. they even have a 15 minute interval in the middle. what endurance sport has that?

 

[BigMac]

Requiring endurance =/= endurance sport.

 

[Maxiton]

How exactly does running over 10 or even 11 km within that time frame not constitute to football being an endurance sport?

Very few people, and no reliable references, would describe it as such.

You could try asking a football player. Or Google, particularly Google Scholar.

Physiological, technical, and tactical skills are all important to soccer performance. Factors such as acceleration, running velocity, jumping height, and capacity to release energy are of major importance. Because of the length of a soccer match, at least 90% of the energy release must be aerobic; during a 90 minute match, players run about 10 kms (6.2 miles) at an intensity close to anaerobic threshold or 80–90% of maximal heart rate.

The quote is from an article in The British Journal of Sports Medicine called
Soccer specific aerobic endurance training.

Or just try playing a match.

 

[Maxiton]

Re:

Requiring endurance =/= endurance sport.

True, in that the endurance component of soccer is not the point of the game. But if it requires the endurance of an endurance sport I'm not sure it matters, not to the players, anyway.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Requiring endurance =/= endurance sport.

True, in that the endurance component of soccer is not the point of the game. But if it requires the endurance of an endurance sport I'm not sure it matters, not to the players, anyway.

it was never meant to be the point of the game, but it's become a very big point (if the not the single most important point) at the top-end of the game.

I've seen quite a few players making millions at the pro-level who, from a skill/technique-perspective, don't come close to the guys i play with on sunday.
fc bayern and the german national squad have been able to win so many trophees not because of their superior skill.
(i know, a bit of a repetitive argument, but hey)

 

[CheckMyPecs]

You could try asking a football player. Or Google, particularly Google Scholar.

Physiological, technical, and tactical skills are all important to soccer performance. Factors such as acceleration, running velocity, jumping height, and capacity to release energy are of major importance. Because of the length of a soccer match, at least 90% of the energy release must be aerobic; during a 90 minute match, players run about 10 kms (6.2 miles) at an intensity close to anaerobic threshold or 80–90% of maximal heart rate.

The quote is from an article in The British Journal of Sports Medicine called
Soccer specific aerobic endurance training.

Or just try playing a match.

As someone else said earlier, requiring endurance =/= endurance sport.

 

[Maxiton]

You could try asking a football player. Or Google, particularly Google Scholar.

Physiological, technical, and tactical skills are all important to soccer performance. Factors such as acceleration, running velocity, jumping height, and capacity to release energy are of major importance. Because of the length of a soccer match, at least 90% of the energy release must be aerobic; during a 90 minute match, players run about 10 kms (6.2 miles) at an intensity close to anaerobic threshold or 80–90% of maximal heart rate.

The quote is from an article in The British Journal of Sports Medicine called
Soccer specific aerobic endurance training.

Or just try playing a match.

As someone else said earlier, requiring endurance =/= endurance sport.

Indeed.

Requiring endurance =/= endurance sport.

True, in that the endurance component of soccer is not the point of the game. But if it requires the endurance of an endurance sport I'm not sure it matters, not to the players, anyway.

You seem to have missed that.

 

[Albatros]

Hard work and discipline.

His body has nothing special, just check out the youtube fitness community and you'll see lot's of skinny kids that gainned a lot of muscle through the years. Ronaldo didn't went from skinny to muscular in a year or two, it took him longer. And yes, if it wasn't for his dedication in the gym, he wouldn't look like that even if he was using drugs.

Ronaldo isn't some fitness blogger though.

He plays 55-65 games per year with all the travel, preparation, effort and recovery that involves.

He also has to do football training for skills and tactics and maintain his extremely impressive level of cardio fitness that allows him to go hard for 90 minutes and very noticeably be the strongest person on the park any time a game for 120.

That. Footballers used to be of the bio-type of a middle distance runner. These days they look like mini bodybuilders.

Not only have they gained in muscle weight but also in muscular definition. Their body fat levels are ridiculously low.

 

[Albatros]

I told you before the game. The team to watch this season doping wise are Atlético Madrid. When your strikers run 12 kms per game you must be on very good ***.
Barcelona run 102 kms and Atletico 114 in a very slow paced game because intelligently Barcelona slowed down the pace of the game as they could not compete physically.
Messi covered just 7 kms whereas Griezman who was subbed before the end 11.5.

Barcelona last season when they won he CH L covered on average 113 kms per game. This season they have done 106 kms.

Any explanation for this? Even doping can only take you so far and the number of matches have caught up with the team?
They failed to take the doping for whatever reason?

I am interested to know the possible reasons for physical debacles in professional sports.

 

[Albatros]

On football being aerobic or anaerobic.
From the National Academy of Sports Medicine (American)

There have been many debates on how to train soccer players for years. Traditional theorists insist that it is important to do long runs for over an hour to build up the aerobic system. Others use a series of longer sprints to work more of the anaerobic system. When watching a soccer match, you will see that for a majority of the time, the players are jogging and even walking, which supports the conclusion that they are in their aerobic system most of the time. The problem with training for soccer using only aerobic conditioning is that when the players have to do a series of sprints during a game their bodies have not been trained to perform for these anaerobic demands. If the player has not trained this anaerobic system correctly, they will start to fatigue quickly. This means that while soccer is an aerobic sport, the players' performance will be limited by how they respond to anaerobic demands. As a result, you will need to train so you have a good aerobic base and also complete intervals at a high intensity to raise the anaerobic threshold. Long runs outside of practice are not typically needed since the intensity and length of the practices should provide the aerobic work capacity that long runs are meant to develop. However, you will need to add short sprint training at high anaerobic levels a couple times per week to make sure your anaerobic system is ready for any demands the game might bring.
Less

 

[The Hitch]

Anyone seen this? http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/former-arsenal-midfielder-emmanuel-petit-7768632

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Anyone seen this? http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/former-arsenal-midfielder-emmanuel-petit-7768632

petit ponytail alliterations

caveat but not small ponytail, was like a horse tail

 

[The Hitch]

Over 1/4 (26 %) of Messi's goals have come in the last 15 minutes of football games and almost 1/5 (18%) in the last 15 minutes of the half, the 2 periods where players are most tired.

By comparison only 1/10th (10%) come in the first 15 minutes of the game and less than 1/7th (14%) in the first 15 minutes of the second half, the 2 periods where players are most fresh.

Its almost as if the more tired players get the more Messi scores

 

[sniper]

that's a compelling stat.
very nice.

 

[romnom]

Messi really isn't that special. Pretty certain that the same trend for late goals applies to the sport in general, not just one player or a team. The first half part of the story is obviously skewed since goals scored on the added time count as if they were scored on the 45th minute. Late in the game fatigue is likely to play a part in the amount of late goals but there's also some fairly obvious reasons why teams that are behind should play in a way that increases the chance they both score and concede extra goals late in the game. Not bold enough to assume the players and teams are rational but maybe on some issues they act as if they are.

 

[Albatros]

Over 1/4 (26 %) of Messi's goals have come in the last 15 minutes of football games and almost 1/5 (18%) in the last 15 minutes of the half, the 2 periods where players are most tired.

By comparison only 1/10th (10%) come in the first 15 minutes of the game and less than 1/7th (14%) in the first 15 minutes of the second half, the 2 periods where players are most fresh.

Its almost as if the more tired players get the more Messi scores

It is just that. But bear in mind that Messi spends most of the game barely giving any effort.
He doesn't run even 8 kms per game, when central defenders cover around 10 kms and defensive midfielders 11-12. And not, he is not sprinting those 8 kms either.

 

[The Hitch]

Precisely, if late in game fatigue is having such a major effect on how many goals are scored late in games, then that shows just how valuable a good endurance doping programme might be.

 

[Albatros]

Re:

Precisely, if late in game fatigue is having such a major effect on how many goals are scored late in games, then that shows just how valuable a good endurance doping programme might be.

You have to put the effort first to get tired.
And I am sure Messi dopes like everyone else.

Look at how much time he spends sprinting or doing some sort of high intensity effort. Barely any time.
The grey part is inactive or walking.

There is a reason why Barcelona fans call him Walking Messi.

Now compare with a player like Alves who covers 3.5 kms per game more.

 

[SeriousSam]

Would be interesting to see a similar chart for other strikers, aggregates for leagues, how it changed over time, and with bins for each minute instead of 15 min.

 

[The Hitch]

A top speed of 29.25km p/h for a 1.69 cm 28yo male in the middle of a 90 minute aerobic workout, is nothing to sneeze at. Remember, spinters can get fatigued after doing one 100m race.

 

[tantocomo]

I forgot to mention this from Luis Enrique's press conference on Sunday night after Barca lost again:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/19/barcelona-luis-enrique-my-style-dont-care-dont-like-it

Luis Enrique was also unapologetic for deriding a reporter who had asked him about the team’s fitness levels after Sunday’s 2-1 home defeat by Valencia.

“I have nothing to apologise for. I didn’t show anyone a lack of respect,” he said.

Or the video in Spanish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jumOH7bzdg0