Doping in Soccer/Football

[Albatros]

Re:

Real Madrid is a perfect example of a mediocre team skill-wise performing on their absolute top due to unmatchable physique and endurance. They've done it for years.

I am not one to easily givecredit to Madrid, but are you sure of what you are saying? They have spent far more than any other club in the past 20 years.

Surely they must have signed some skilful players.

 

[Albatros]

Re: Re:

Freakish thing with messi is though, it's basically been 3 years since he's had a rest. He plays every game for Barcelona, all 90 minutes, doesn't rest even if the game is already won (like against Arsenal in the champions league this year or Bayern last year), and in both 2014 and 2015 he took Argentina all the way to the final in an international competition.

Cristiano output is far more impressive. He plays in every game too, but works much harder than Messi.

If you watch Messi his explosive efforts have been reduced to a minimum. Cristiano on the other hand was the player who made more intensity runs per game in the Premier League and has continued in the same vain in Spain up to the age of 31.
Messi at 28 is a walking zombie for the majority of the game.

Interesting. Which teams did Christiano take to the finals of the world cup and Copa America finals last 2 summers?

Don't know how you can correlate the two. Football is a team sport to start with. So you depend on the quality of your teammates to succeed.

Secondly, the technical ability of a player also counts. And Messi is quite superior in that respect.
If Cristiano worked as hard as Messi does he would probably be a good player but not the outstanding player he is.

 

[Albatros]

Hard work and discipline.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Freakish thing with messi is though, it's basically been 3 years since he's had a rest. He plays every game for Barcelona, all 90 minutes, doesn't rest even if the game is already won (like against Arsenal in the champions league this year or Bayern last year), and in both 2014 and 2015 he took Argentina all the way to the final in an international competition.

Cristiano output is far more impressive. He plays in every game too, but works much harder than Messi.

If you watch Messi his explosive efforts have been reduced to a minimum. Cristiano on the other hand was the player who made more intensity runs per game in the Premier League and has continued in the same vain in Spain up to the age of 31.
Messi at 28 is a walking zombie for the majority of the game.

Interesting. Which teams did Christiano take to the finals of the world cup and Copa America finals last 2 summers?

Don't know how you can correlate the two. Football is a team sport to start with. So you depend on the quality of your teammates to succeed.

Secondly, the technical ability of a player also counts. And Messi is quite superior in that respect.
If Cristiano worked as hard as Messi does he would probably be a good player but not the outstanding player he is.

My point was that Ronaldo had all of last summer off and most of 2014 summer off as Portugal fell out early at the world cup.

Messi was there both years playing every well into July. The Spanish season starts in late August. Last year Messi was also playing the Champions League final and Copa Del rey final right before he flew off to South America.

Its incredible how he can go 2 years without even an off season.

 

[carolina]

Hard work and discipline.

His body has nothing special, just check out the youtube fitness community and you'll see lot's of skinny kids that gainned a lot of muscle through the years. Ronaldo didn't went from skinny to muscular in a year or two, it took him longer. And yes, if it wasn't for his dedication in the gym, he wouldn't look like that even if he was using drugs.

He dopes, just like any other real madrid player, but using his body as some kind of proof that he's doping makes no sense.

Regarding the lack of injuries in some soccer clubs, they probably have better drugs, but I also think they have better physical preparation. I remember seeing a news story about the portuguese soccer team, during their preparation for euro 2004, and when the players were told to do a plank, more than half weren't able to hold it for 20 seconds.

I train in the same gym as Telma Monteiro (4 times silver medal in judo world championships and current judo european champion) and she doesn't even know how to do a *** squat. She's a Sport Lisboa e Benfica athlete, which is the biggest soccer club in Portugal.

 

[sniper]

https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/720004595540443137

 

[blackcat]

It's a self selecting system, anyone who wasn't able to "do what it takes" to reach the top has long fallen by the wayside. But since the media (and by extension we the public) are only interested in winners, it's exactly these types of people that control the narrative.

^this

sample fallacy, survivor fallacy, like you said, the media are not interested in losers

 

[T_S_A_R]

Hard work and discipline.

His body has nothing special, just check out the youtube fitness community and you'll see lot's of skinny kids that gainned a lot of muscle through the years. Ronaldo didn't went from skinny to muscular in a year or two, it took him longer. And yes, if it wasn't for his dedication in the gym, he wouldn't look like that even if he was using drugs.

Ronaldo isn't some fitness blogger though.

He plays 55-65 games per year with all the travel, preparation, effort and recovery that involves.

He also has to do football training for skills and tactics and maintain his extremely impressive level of cardio fitness that allows him to go hard for 90 minutes and very noticeably be the strongest person on the park any time a game for 120.

 

[carolina]

Hard work and discipline.

His body has nothing special, just check out the youtube fitness community and you'll see lot's of skinny kids that gainned a lot of muscle through the years. Ronaldo didn't went from skinny to muscular in a year or two, it took him longer. And yes, if it wasn't for his dedication in the gym, he wouldn't look like that even if he was using drugs.

Ronaldo isn't some fitness blogger though.

He plays 55-65 games per year with all the travel, preparation, effort and recovery that involves.

He also has to do football training for skills and tactics and maintain his extremely impressive level of cardio fitness that allows him to go hard for 90 minutes and very noticeably be the strongest person on the park any time a game for 120.

He doesn't even have an impressive body, he just has abs, that's not that hard. Depending on the person, from 15% bodyfat and down you can see the abs.

Soccer isn't an endurance sport, you have 90 minutes with a 15 minute resting period and your not always running. The occasions where they play 120 minutes are rare, that's also why most soccer players struggle a lot with the extra half hour. They clearly don't have appropriate physical preparation for that.

They need to do powerfull sprints, jump high, etc, which are all things compatible with resistance weight trainning.

I believe he dopes and that's why his sprints after 1 hours are still as powerfull as in the beggining, but using his body has some kind of justification makes no sense.

 

[T_S_A_R]

He doesn't even have an impressive body, he just has abs, that's not that hard. Depending on the person, from 15% bodyfat and down you can see the abs.

Gyms and beaches are packed with guys who look like that.

 

[carolina]

he's flexing in that photo and you can clearly see he packs more fat in his legs than on his torso.

~83 kgs for someone that's 1,85 cm isn't impressive at all.

 

[lenric]

He doesn't even have an impressive body, he just has abs, that's not that hard. Depending on the person, from 15% bodyfat and down you can see the abs.

Any male with a 15% bf has one-pack. Not 2 pack, 4 pack, 1 pack. Period.
It's not hard to be 85 kgs at 1.85m, it's not hard to have a 8% bf at that height. It is hard, however, to weight 85 kgs with a <10% bf. Ronaldo has a <8% bf. And I know what I'm talking about, since I workout since 2006.

Ronaldo is a physical wonder. However, that doesn't mean that he's a wonderful player. Messi's waaaaay above him.

 

[carolina]

do you even know what 8% looks like?! lol most people use bioimpedance scales to measure bf, which is VERY innacurate.

alberto nunez did a dexa scan, which is one of the best methods to obtain a realistic bf value. this is how he looks with 6.2% bf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X2DFfaTvjI

ronaldo is about 12-13% bf.

 

[lenric]

Yes. 6.2%. I stated that Ronaldo is circa 8%. You state that he's 12/13%, which would be right... if he was a woman.
There's a difference, which can be seen in the vascularity of the guy you posted. Currently I'm around 12/13% and I nowhere look like Ronaldo. And by the way, Ronaldo was severely tested by one sports mark regarding his physical stats. I don't really believe that his bf test was by impedance, but a more accurate one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSL-gPMPVXI

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re:

alberto nunez did a dexa scan, which is one of the best methods to obtain a realistic bf value.

It's also one of the best methods to get cancer. No-one should subject themselves to X-rays without a good medical reason.

Value your health? Then simply train until you get the appearance you want (and the chicks dig)

If I have a nice, strong body (which I do), whether my body fat is 5%, 7%, 9% or 11% is purely academic.

 

[carolina]

Re:

Yes. 6.2%. I stated that Ronaldo is circa 8%. You state that he's 12/13%, which would be right... if he was a woman.
There's a difference, which can be seen in the vascularity of the guy you posted. Currently I'm around 12/13% and I nowhere look like Ronaldo. And by the way, Ronaldo was severely tested by one sports mark regarding his physical stats. I don't really believe that his bf test was by impedance, but a more accurate one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSL-gPMPVXI

With 6.2% the guy has shredded glutes, Ronaldo is nowhere near that. (a woman with 12/13% is stage ready for a bodybuilding constest and wouldn't be able to mantain that for much more then a few days)

I saw that video a few years ago, I don't remember if they measured his bf. The video is too long for me to watch it again, at least give me the time were they talk about it.

I still don't understand why you think he can't mantain that physique while being a soccer player. He doesn't need to have a great endurance. Stuff like sprints and jumps can be highly improved with weight trainning.

I do weightlifting 4 times a week and I can still do 5 to 6 hours bike rides during the weekends. My times on the bike keep improving as well as my lifts. Cycling and weightlifting are hard to manage at the same time, but soccer and weightlifting no.

 

[lenric]

They measured it. It's below 8/9%.
I'm 12/13% now and I'm way less shredded than Ronaldo. Quite obvious to admit that he's below this percentage. Go check out on the web pictures of guys with 12 to 13% and then say something.
Oh and by the way, I didn't say that he can't maintain his physical stats with the cardio that he does. It all comes to nutrition. And there's a reason for improvements in jumps and sprinting when you weightlift: you work fast twitch fibers, so anything related to explosive movements will get better... such as football also.

 

[carolina]

Re:

I didn't say that he can't maintain his physical stats with the cardio that he does. It all comes to nutrition. And there's a reason for improvements in jumps and sprinting when you weightlift: you work fast twitch fibers, so anything related to explosive movements will get better... such as football also.

Then there's nothing to discuss. My point was that using his physique to imply he dopes makes no sense, because it's not that hard, specially if that's your job.

 

[tantocomo]

He also has to do football training for skills and tactics and maintain his extremely impressive level of cardio fitness that allows him to go hard for 90 minutes and very noticeably be the strongest person on the park any time a game for 120.

Since I don't normally watch Madrid I was surprised to see which player was still chasing and pressing the Wolfsburg defence in the 93rd minute on Tuesday night. Anyone want to take a guess? (It wasn't Ronaldo)

 

[HSNHSN]

Hard work and discipline.

His body has nothing special, just check out the youtube fitness community and you'll see lot's of skinny kids that gainned a lot of muscle through the years. Ronaldo didn't went from skinny to muscular in a year or two, it took him longer. And yes, if it wasn't for his dedication in the gym, he wouldn't look like that even if he was using drugs.

Ronaldo isn't some fitness blogger though.

He plays 55-65 games per year with all the travel, preparation, effort and recovery that involves.

He also has to do football training for skills and tactics and maintain his extremely impressive level of cardio fitness that allows him to go hard for 90 minutes and very noticeably be the strongest person on the park any time a game for 120.

He doesn't even have an impressive body, he just has abs, that's not that hard. Depending on the person, from 15% bodyfat and down you can see the abs.

Soccer isn't an endurance sport, you have 90 minutes with a 15 minute resting period and your not always running. The occasions where they play 120 minutes are rare, that's also why most soccer players struggle a lot with the extra half hour. They clearly don't have appropriate physical preparation for that.

They need to do powerfull sprints, jump high, etc, which are all things compatible with resistance weight trainning.

I believe he dopes and that's why his sprints after 1 hours are still as powerfull as in the beggining, but using his body has some kind of justification makes no sense.

How exactly does running over 10 or even 11 km within that time frame not constitute to football being an endurance sport? Sure, they're not running all the time, but they must be running enough of the time for it to count as an endurance sport, if they're going to get to distances like that. By just walking for an hour and a half you won't get to those distances.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

How exactly does running over 10 or even 11 km within that time frame not constitute to football being an endurance sport?

Very few people, and no reliable references, would describe it as such.

 

[carolina]

when I think of endurance sports I think of marathon runners, cyclists, triathlon athelets, etc. sports that generally take more then 2 hours and/or cover big distances.

 

[HSNHSN]

How exactly does running over 10 or even 11 km within that time frame not constitute to football being an endurance sport?

Very few people, and no reliable references, would describe it as such.

I have to admit this piqued my interest, since I pretty clearly remember the surprise some football commentators expressed when distances covered were given for the first time. At the time, they were particularly surprised about the endurance football players should need to cover those distances. This particularly surprised me at the time, since most of these commentators were former football players themselves. Unfortunately, this isn't too recent and therefore very hard to find.

In recent years, I must admit you're right. Apart from a few mentions in scientific articles, football apparently isn't considered an endurance sport. The most interesting thing I could find, is that the FIFA itself did consider football an endurance sport, at least in 2005: "At the elite level, male outfield players typically cover about 10-13 km, making football an endurance sport. "

 

[sniper]

...
How exactly does running over 10 or even 11 km within that time frame not constitute to football being an endurance sport? Sure, they're not running all the time, but they must be running enough of the time for it to count as an endurance sport, if they're going to get to distances like that. By just walking for an hour and a half you won't get to those distances.

well said.

 

[lenric]

He also has to do football training for skills and tactics and maintain his extremely impressive level of cardio fitness that allows him to go hard for 90 minutes and very noticeably be the strongest person on the park any time a game for 120.

Since I don't normally watch Madrid I was surprised to see which player was still chasing and pressing the Wolfsburg defence in the 93rd minute on Tuesday night. Anyone want to take a guess? (It wasn't Ronaldo)

Tricky question, but I know this one! Keylor Navas was the dude!!