Doping in Soccer/Football

[slowspoke]

Wenger Doping claims

being accused of - http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/arsene-wenger-dismisses-paul-mersons-doping-claims/

And rather more being anti -

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-arsene-wenger-slams-doping-1594892

and

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2388078/Arsenal-players-used-EPO-says-Wenger.html

and this link is a nice summation of doping in football.

http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

 

[Cyivel]

their stamina over the past three to four seasons is insane.
grosskreutz has been singled out here before, and rightly so.
he looks to be on speed all the time. but the others are extremely fit as well. mikhtarian's runs against napoli were crazy.
and i'd love to see some stats on when dortmund score most of their goals. I bet they score most of their goals in the final third of the match.

Kagawa overdosed on some of his left over supply from his Dortmund days

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Kagawa overdosed on some of his left over supply from his Dortmund days

Cover for doping.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Shinji-Kagawa-stomach-pumped-eating-much.html

I've just finished reading the Alex Ferguson autobiography. For the sake of his public image I think it would have benefited from being written with a co-writer like Daniel Coyle. The only mention of doping that's in there is how furious he was when Rio Ferdinand was banned.

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...nique-to-hasten-injured-players-recovery.html

Tottenham use controversial blood-spinning technique to hasten injured players' recovery
Vlad Chiriches is the latest player to be treated by Spurs doctors using Platelet-Rich Plasma Therapy and Andre Villas-Boas says Jan Vertonghen is next.


Wonder does the ex football doctor on Sky do similar

 

[Cyivel]

Not really news they've been using it for a while now, completely legal of course, whether it should be or not is another question.

 

[gooner]

This study which published in the summer was brought to my attention today about possible doping in the Bundesliga. Very interesting read.

http://fussballdoping.derwesten-recherche.org/en/2013/08/nine-times-blood-doping-in-bundesliga/

http://www.spiegel.de/international...oping-in-german-football-league-a-919563.html

 

[gooner]

Article on blood treatments in football(in german).

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-124097548.html

 

[Briant_Gumble]

I just stumbled across this article from way back in 1999, where Emmanuel Petit talks about doping in soccer and about some his team mates that he knew were doping;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/fa_carling_premiership/363776.stm

I have to imagine the problem has only got worse.

 

[gooner]

I just stumbled across this article from way back in 1999, where Emmanuel Petit talks about doping in soccer and about some his team mates that he knew were doping;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/fa_carling_premiership/363776.stm

I have to imagine the problem has only got worse.

I remember this well where he complained about the football calendar. It caused a bit of a stir at the time.

Arsenal were big users of creatine in the early years of Wenger. I'm trying to remember if it was Adams's book, Wright's or Seaman's one that said they stopped it due to the side effects. I read those books a long time back, but I'm nearly certain it was Adams.

Merson said a bit a while back about it.

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger has shot back claims by former midfielder Paul Merson that he had been injected by a ‘yellowy product’ during his time at the club.

Merson, 43, made the claims to French football magazine So Foot and further described being handed “a dark tablet”, which was apparently super-strength caffeine.

http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/arsene-wenger-dismisses-paul-mersons-doping-claims/

 

[simo1733]

Maybe it was to cure his hangover.

 

[sniper]

it's the first time this season i'm watching ManUnited.
blimey, what happened there since Ferguson left?
they look horrible.
awful technique, slow.
I mean, I knew they weren't doing well this season, but to see how they play is rather disturbing.

 

[infeXio]

The Moyes-effect. Seems like his main goal is to play with wingers who are completely incapable of making succesful crosses - might I mention the Fulham match a couple of weeks ago, where United had no less than 80+ crosses - ~10% of which were succesful.
Moyes just generally seems tactically inept, and seems unable to string a coherent tactic together.
Painful to watch, and by using Valencia and Young, you might as well just tell the opponent you're going to attempt 90 crosses a game.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Moyes carries a great deal of the responsibility and as time moves by his credibility tanks further.

Team on pitch:

De Gea; Smalling, Vidić, Ferdinand, Evra; Valencia, Carrick, Cleverley, Young; Rooney, van Persie

Evra continues to be United's most creative player here.

Rooney is supposed to be worldclass and a leader? Not buying it.

The fact is the team simple isn't very good regardless of trainer.

 

[sniper]

The fact is the team simple isn't very good regardless of trainer.

remarkable how they failed, or refused, to sign one or two worldclass midfielders this summer.

otoh, the last few years under ferguson they also seemed to lack quality, but still they managed to get silverware and be competitive.

does anybody know of any changes in the medical department since fergy left?

 

[infeXio]

Doubtful, but there has been rumours about the players criticising Moyes' training regime in general, as it's supposedly insanely hard and gets people injured.
The team might not be very good atm, and there's no doubt that Ferguson maximised their performance to an unbelieveable extent, but the general level of performance, creativity and eagerness on the pitch, genuinely seems to have dissapeared. If Moyes' position isn't in serious doubt, I reckon they'll lose a great deal of credibility. The problem in that regard is that Moyes basically was Fergusons choice, which means that if the club decides to sack him, it'll automatically, deliberate or not, question Fergusons choice and thus himself.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Doubtful, but there has been rumours about the players criticising Moyes' training regime in general, as it's supposedly insanely hard and gets people injured.
The team might not be very good atm, and there's no doubt that Ferguson maximised their performance to an unbelieveable extent, but the general level of performance, creativity and eagerness on the pitch, genuinely seems to have dissapeared. If Moyes' position isn't in serious doubt, I reckon they'll lose a great deal of credibility. The problem in that regard is that Moyes basically was Fergusons choice, which means that if the club decides to sack him, it'll automatically, deliberate or not, question Fergusons choice and thus himself.

A lot of informed people would already question Ferguson's transfer policy over the last 3-4 season. De Gea came good, Janu seems a winner longer term, Van Persie was a good buy (expensive and already developed), but thats it I think.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

remarkable how they failed, or refused, to sign one or two worldclass midfielders this summer.

otoh, the last few years under ferguson they also seemed to lack quality, but still they managed to get silverware and be competitive.

does anybody know of any changes in the medical department since fergy left?

Don't know the details.

But we are seeing just low level footballers here. Poor touch, limited vision, zero leadership on pitch, collapsed organisation in defense, no drive in midfield. There is only so much drugs can do.

 

[infeXio]

A lot of informed people would already question Ferguson's transfer policy over the last 3-4 season. De Gea came good, Janu seems a winner longer term, Van Persie was a good buy (expensive and already developed), but thats it I think.

There has indeed not been any remarkable pattern in his transfer strategy, but it was always going to be hard to fill the void left by Ronaldo in 09, after which there has also been a distinct lack of tactical strategy/direction. This lack has certainly not been helped by Moyes' tendency to just hoof the ball forward rather than getting some passing going, or to simply attempt 90 high crosses per game despite not having any strikers particularly known for their heading abilities. He just seems completely unable to adapt to the player material, and really doesn't seem like he was ready for the challenges he inevitably was going to face at United.

 

[sniper]

There has indeed not been any remarkable pattern in his transfer strategy, but it was always going to be hard to fill the void left by Ronaldo in 09, after which there has also been a distinct lack of tactical strategy/direction. This lack has certainly not been helped by Moyes' tendency to just hoof the ball forward rather than getting some passing going, or to simply attempt 90 high crosses per game despite not having any strikers particularly known for their heading abilities. He just seems completely unable to adapt to the player material, and really doesn't seem like he was ready for the challenges he inevitably was going to face at United.

Yap, uniteds choice for moyes was as doubful as their failure to buy decent players.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

There has indeed not been any remarkable pattern in his transfer strategy, but it was always going to be hard to fill the void left by Ronaldo in 09, after which there has also been a distinct lack of tactical strategy/direction. This lack has certainly not been helped by Moyes' tendency to just hoof the ball forward rather than getting some passing going, or to simply attempt 90 high crosses per game despite not having any strikers particularly known for their heading abilities. He just seems completely unable to adapt to the player material, and really doesn't seem like he was ready for the challenges he inevitably was going to face at United.

I will commend Ferguson for getting the absolute most out of the material late in his stint. But in term of hand over, it was one of the worst. Also the owners have not invested in the club for years, but rather sucked tons of cash out. Hasn't helped either.

 

[infeXio]

I do reckon that if Ferguson had asked for funds for any big transfers, the Glazers would have given him them, though Fergie was in no way willing to pay the prices, which had been, and still are, terribly inflated by the likes of Chelsea (in the early 00's), City and PSG, as they all got a seemingly infinite injection of oil money. This unwillingness to adapt to the developing market conditions surely has been a hindrance for the club, as they were unwilling to compete at the new level of prices and wages, which ultimately meant that they couldn't win a bidding war for the biggest talents and/or stars (The Lucas Moura transfer to PSG is a good example of Ferguson's reluctance to paying silly money for players - though he has made his fair share of high profile transfer mistakes).
Ultimately I don't really think that the players respect Moyes' managerial feats (or lack thereof), and he doesn't have the tactical competence to adapt to Uniteds player material, which, despite its lack of patterns in regards to skill and play style, shouldn't be forced to play Moyes' primitive style of football.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I do reckon that if Ferguson had asked for funds for any big transfers, the Glazers would have given him them, though Fergie was in no way willing to pay the prices, which had been, and still are, terribly inflated by the likes of Chelsea (in the early 00's), City and PSG, as they all got a seemingly infinite injection of oil money. This unwillingness to adapt to the developing market conditions surely has been a hindrance for the club, as they were unwilling to compete at the new level of prices and wages, which ultimately meant that they couldn't win a bidding war for the biggest talents and/or stars (The Lucas Moura transfer to PSG is a good example of Ferguson's reluctance to paying silly money for players - though he has made his fair share of high profile transfer mistakes).
Ultimately I don't really think that the players respect Moyes' managerial feats (or lack thereof), and he doesn't have the tactical competence to adapt to Uniteds player material, which, despite its lack of patterns in regards to skill and play style, shouldn't be forced to play Moyes' primitive style of football.

Difficult to get to the bottom of the transfers games, but the fact remains that debt service and so called management fees have sucked many millions out of the club over the last decade. This tells me something. Ferguson shielded over the mess imo (as a good manager would do).

 

[gooner]

Have to admit, Ferguson is one off.

I having a great chuckle to my self at the moment watching their downturn.

I see the Fraud was at it at Dutch TV tonight. No surprise. When the going gets tough, that's all he's good for, just like he did before the Euro 2012 when he slagged off his Arsenal team mates to his best buddy in the Dutch media who went off and write an article practically in his name and did his dirty work before putting in a transfer request.

Well done to Joel Campbell tonight.

 

[gooner]

remarkable how they failed, or refused, to sign one or two worldclass midfielders this summer.

otoh, the last few years under ferguson they also seemed to lack quality, but still they managed to get silverware and be competitive.

does anybody know of any changes in the medical department since fergy left?

I haven't heard any changes in the medical staff but the training is supposed to be totally different. Rooney has spoken a lot about Moyes doing more running and physical work. This would tie into Mirallas's comments where he said Martinez at Everton brings the Spanish approach of more emphasis on ball work and is different to Moyes where he pointed out the exact same thing that Rooney said above.

You should go over to Redcafe at the moment, it's a great laugh having a read off that at the moment.

Let the show go on.

 

[slowspoke]

remarkable how they failed, or refused, to sign one or two worldclass midfielders this summer.

otoh, the last few years under ferguson they also seemed to lack quality, but still they managed to get silverware and be competitive.

does anybody know of any changes in the medical department since fergy left?

The whole backroom got sacked.

And see how Everton are doing too. Although this is more stylistic than running around like mad men.

My personal theory is Ferguson hired Moyes to make him look good.