Doping in XC skiing

[BullsFan22]

Sundby will not appeal his suspension:

http://blogs.fasterskier.com/insidetrack/2016/09/27/sundby-decides-against-doping-appeal/


Probably a wise choice for him, but unfortunate for us. I had the feeling that had he gone through with everything and appealed and let this drag on for a while, we would have gotten a bit of a Armstrong effect, where more people would leak information and perhaps speak out against asthma use on non-Asthmatics. Sundby was probably advised not to take it to the Swiss courts because he doesn't have the funds (I am not sure if the NSF OR the Olympiatoppen are quite ready to dish out thousands of Euros for his defense, as he already was covered by the NSF after he lost his prize money following the official FIS statements and subsequent suspension), and to probably ease the slamming the Norwegians have gotten regarding this whole asthma debacle.

his non action has nothing to do with the lack of funds. In fact, even if fully adjudicated it would be, at most, several thousand euros. The simple reason he blustered but would never actually appeal was...he had no case. By its own rules, and that was played out numerous times, the swiss supreme court would admit a case only if (a) a proper procedure was violated (b) the appellants human or civil rights were infringed upon as it is interpreted by the swiss law.

At no time did the sundby team complained about either based on the Cas award. It was a case of his now evident arrogance to claim something that was never to have a chance.

Interesting. Well, as my knowledge of law and steps taken in legal procedures and the strength of cases is almost 0, I will say you are probably right. It was just my hunch. Perhaps the Sundby arrogance and really the arrogance of the NSF has hit a ceiling, but I think they are still more likely to win legal cases and get athletes clear of any wrongdoing than any other individual or team on the FIS World Cup. Again, I am not too familiar with law, particularly one that deals with doping cases. The lawyer probably did advise Sundby and the NSF to not fight this, because they don't have a chance. Still, it's too bad they didn't fight it, as I think more could be uncovered. The more athletes that speak out about this (whether they are defending the NSF and Sundby or not) the better.

 

[Cloxxki]

On this topic, because it bugs me.
Didn't we see last season or the one before a (Norwegian) female skier bogging down terribly, seemingly sufferingg from asthma in a 10k or skiathlon or something like that? A Jacobsen type of skier, in my memory. the drop in performance seemed consistent with what I've experienced time and again.
While there are fake astmatics, more than real ones as it seems, I do want to be fair to genuine fellow sufferers.

I think the one to which you refer was indeed Astrid Jacobsen, and it was when she collapsed after stage 2 of the Tour de Ski, which was 15km classic. She's going well early in the race, but in the second half falls back completely then passes out at the finish. The race is here. You can see at around 49:40 as others are finishing, one of the Americans goes to check on her as she hasn't moved since finishing 2 minutes earlier, at about 50:20 they show her on the floor with Diggins running off and Sadie Bjornsen and Nicole Fessel trying to check she's ok; at 50:45 Diggins has returned with medical staff. It's 53:10 before Astrid sits up, over 5 mins after finishing, and looks like she's having trouble breathing.

That one.
Why was she not minded after? Surely the Norwegian staff knew what was up? Had ample time to arrange for a decent welcome. Some oxygen at the finish line would be much apprecated, surely...

Is she a true asthma sufferer then, or was it another issue?
I've forgotten to take an inhale dozens of times if not hundreds. First year I had it, I tried to contend a local MTB race and found myself doing well early on, until the black snow took over all of my vision. I had to lean over my handlebar for a while to let the black make way for the light again. Not a relaxed experiences, and there was nothing to be won there.

 

[BullsFan22]

On this topic, because it bugs me.
Didn't we see last season or the one before a (Norwegian) female skier bogging down terribly, seemingly sufferingg from asthma in a 10k or skiathlon or something like that? A Jacobsen type of skier, in my memory. the drop in performance seemed consistent with what I've experienced time and again.
While there are fake astmatics, more than real ones as it seems, I do want to be fair to genuine fellow sufferers.

I think the one to which you refer was indeed Astrid Jacobsen, and it was when she collapsed after stage 2 of the Tour de Ski, which was 15km classic. She's going well early in the race, but in the second half falls back completely then passes out at the finish. The race is here. You can see at around 49:40 as others are finishing, one of the Americans goes to check on her as she hasn't moved since finishing 2 minutes earlier, at about 50:20 they show her on the floor with Diggins running off and Sadie Bjornsen and Nicole Fessel trying to check she's ok; at 50:45 Diggins has returned with medical staff. It's 53:10 before Astrid sits up, over 5 mins after finishing, and looks like she's having trouble breathing.

Jacobsen also blew up (though not as bad as the race you speak of) in the final stage of the Ski Tour Canada in the pursuit in Canmore. Does she have asthma? From what I've read and heard, I don't think she has. Blowing up in races can be attributed to many different things: starting too fast, overdressed, warm weather, dehydration, less than optimal warm up prior to the race, lack of sleep, breakfast, etc.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Fasterskier article doesn't clear too much up although adds nausea to the mix, and that the team said there was "no indication it was anything serious" and dismissed it as being down to an overload of physical stresses. It's definitely true that Astrid's performance and post-race happenings are consistent with what might be expected of a legit asthma-related problem, but as detailed above there are plenty of other equally viable reasons. It's not an isolated incident with her, however, and over the years she's developed something of a history as a Pechvogel, from her brother's untimely death to her bike crash back in the early days of her career.

It definitely seems from the race video however that there was little suggestion that there was anything wrong until well after she crosses the line, although given that skiers often collapse across the line it was only when she'd been there an abnormally long time that attention was drawn. Certainly it looks from the footage that she basically lay there alone until either Diggins or Bjornsen noticed something was wrong (can't see which as it's in the background when the first American goes over to her), after which it looks like Bjornsen and Fessel stayed with her while Diggins got the medical team, who it seems had not been aware of anything that would require them until that point.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

The Fasterskier article doesn't clear too much up although adds nausea to the mix, and that the team said there was "no indication it was anything serious" and dismissed it as being down to an overload of physical stresses. It's definitely true that Astrid's performance and post-race happenings are consistent with what might be expected of a legit asthma-related problem, but as detailed above there are plenty of other equally viable reasons. It's not an isolated incident with her, however, and over the years she's developed something of a history as a Pechvogel, from her brother's untimely death to her bike crash back in the early days of her career.

It definitely seems from the race video however that there was little suggestion that there was anything wrong until well after she crosses the line, although given that skiers often collapse across the line it was only when she'd been there an abnormally long time that attention was drawn. Certainly it looks from the footage that she basically lay there alone until either Diggins or Bjornsen noticed something was wrong (can't see which as it's in the background when the first American goes over to her), after which it looks like Bjornsen and Fessel stayed with her while Diggins got the medical team, who it seems had not been aware of anything that would require them until that point.

Fasterskier can be hit or miss with their articles. Sometimes good, sometimes...not so much. They clearly don't have much interest in digging up and asking questions regarding the Norwegian asthma meds (and other things I assume). They have no problem writing articles regarding others. Case in point, when people like Kowalczyk and Vaelbe make thought provoking comments regarding widespread asthma in the Norwegian camp, Fasterskier wrote puff pieces in trying to 'debunk' what K. and V. said. It was clear to me that they were trying to defend the Norwegians and make K and V look like fools. Thankfully, Kowalczyk and Vaelbe have been proven correct. For years Kowalczyk has been ridiculed for questioning the unusually high number of asthma 'sufferers' in Norwegian elite skiing. Fasterskier seemed to be doing a service for the NSF rather than writing non-biased pieces that are meant to be viewed by the global nordic ski and biathlon community. I am not going to mention names of the authors, but when stories of the Russian fiasco in Sochi came to life, they (FS) had no problem reporting on it. They kept hammering on that subject. Hardly anything regarding the Norwegians, and not just the recent asthma episodes, but dating back to Blodracet. It's not like that documentary was made by some obscure network in a far away land. Perhaps I am being too harsh on them, but they aren't asking the real hard questions.

 

[python]

Sundby will not appeal his suspension:

http://blogs.fasterskier.com/insidetrack/2016/09/27/sundby-decides-against-doping-appeal/


Probably a wise choice for him, but unfortunate for us. I had the feeling that had he gone through with everything and appealed and let this drag on for a while, we would have gotten a bit of a Armstrong effect, where more people would leak information and perhaps speak out against asthma use on non-Asthmatics. Sundby was probably advised not to take it to the Swiss courts because he doesn't have the funds (I am not sure if the NSF OR the Olympiatoppen are quite ready to dish out thousands of Euros for his defense, as he already was covered by the NSF after he lost his prize money following the official FIS statements and subsequent suspension), and to probably ease the slamming the Norwegians have gotten regarding this whole asthma debacle.

his non action has nothing to do with the lack of funds. In fact, even if fully adjudicated it would be, at most, several thousand euros. The simple reason he blustered but would never actually appeal was...he had no case. By its own rules, and that was played out numerous times, the swiss supreme court would admit a case only if (a) a proper procedure was violated (b) the appellants human or civil rights were infringed upon as it is interpreted by the swiss law.

At no time did the sundby team complained about either based on the Cas award. It was a case of his now evident arrogance to claim something that was never to have a chance.

Interesting. Well, as my knowledge of law and steps taken in legal procedures and the strength of cases is almost 0, I will say you are probably right. It was just my hunch. Perhaps the Sundby arrogance and really the arrogance of the NSF has hit a ceiling, but I think they are still more likely to win legal cases and get athletes clear of any wrongdoing than any other individual or team on the FIS World Cup. Again, I am not too familiar with law, particularly one that deals with doping cases. The lawyer probably did advise Sundby and the NSF to not fight this, because they don't have a chance. Still, it's too bad they didn't fight it, as I think more could be uncovered. The more athletes that speak out about this (whether they are defending the NSF and Sundby or not) the better.

i am not a lawyer either. said it too many times by now to be confused. just stating some facts that are well documented - if memory serves. plus, i did read the cas verdict VERY carefully, including the various 'first responders' submissions and testimony (that is, sundby's personal accounts). that his and the nsf' legal council was drafting every word sundby uttered was too obvious...

again, he never had a case b/c a supreme court of a country like switzerland cant afford being flooded by the cases not meeting the 2 specific criteria outlined above. had he chosen to fight further, nothing of substance would have been uncovered b/c, as pointed above, it would NOT have been among the criteria or reasons for which the swiss supreme court would have cared to admit the case in the 1st place. iow, mr sundby would have been dismissed summarily. an average norwegian fan is dismayed and confused, yet it's a fan's nature to maintain the faith however subdued. hence the reason the arrogant types like sundby and armstrong keep th illusion alive as long as possible.

...re. the jacobsen posts above , again, to me it illustrates how a video is/could be a very poor conduit to interpret a concrete ailment like asthma.

 

[Blaaswix]

Norway's culture minister wants to be vice president http://www.vg.no/sport/doping/kulturministeren-vil-bli-visepresident-i-wada/a/23806872/of WADA.

"– Med den antidopinghistorien Norge har, med vår kompetanse og vårt arbeid som ligger i front internasjonalt, så har Norge mye å tilføre arbeidet for en renere idrett. Nå står vi ved et veiskille etter å ha vært vitne til systematisk, statsdopede utøvere i et OL. Da trenger kampen mot doping mer kraft enn noensinne, sier Helleland."

With the anti-doping history Norway has, with our competence and our work which is at the forefront internationally, Norway has much to contribute to the work for cleaner sport. We stand before a split in the road after having been witness to systematic, state-doped athletes in an Olympic games. (Now) the battle against doping needs more power than ever.

 

[BullsFan22]

Norway's culture minister wants to be vice president http://www.vg.no/sport/doping/kulturministeren-vil-bli-visepresident-i-wada/a/23806872/of WADA.

"– Med den antidopinghistorien Norge har, med vår kompetanse og vårt arbeid som ligger i front internasjonalt, så har Norge mye å tilføre arbeidet for en renere idrett. Nå står vi ved et veiskille etter å ha vært vitne til systematisk, statsdopede utøvere i et OL. Da trenger kampen mot doping mer kraft enn noensinne, sier Helleland."

With the anti-doping history Norway has, with our competence and our work which is at the forefront internationally, Norway has much to contribute to the work for cleaner sport. We stand before a split in the road after having been witness to systematic, state-doped athletes in an Olympic games. (Now) the battle against doping needs more power than ever.

I had hopes that the minister would say something other than the usual 'Norway has much to contribute to the work for cleaner sport...' and 'having been witness to systematic, state sponsored athletes....' Yawn. When she says that the country is at the forefront internationally in cleaning up sport, does she include cleaning up the Norwegian national cross country ski team? And is Norway so entrenched in WADA because they can reap the benefits of lax testing, bias, manipulation, etc? We already see those benefits through FIS, who was more than happy to help clear Sundby even after he was caught, twice. They then were able to keep this quiet for 18 months or so after the fact and he was allowed to race.

 

[Blaaswix]

Two for today. The swedes don't use nebulizers http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/dop...aken-kunne-aldri-skjedd-i-sverige/a/23806454/

And Manificat says it's 'incredible what Norwegians believe' , plus lots of other stuff - well worth a look. http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/frans...-utrolig-hva-det-norske-folk-tror-pa/61001643

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

It's not an isolated incident with her, however, and over the years she's developed something of a history as a Pechvogel, from her brother's untimely death to her bike crash back in the early days of her career.

Well, at least with her brother's death search for link begins to be little bit...sorcerous? or conspirative for my liking.

 

[Kokoso]

Why was she not minded after? Surely the Norwegian staff knew what was up? Had ample time to arrange for a decent welcome. Some oxygen at the finish line would be much apprecated, surely...

Why should she be minded? Or how do you even know she wasn't? Norwegian stuff surely doesn't have to know what's happening with an athlete during the race, so...what they knew was that she's running, well, if you REALLY aren't ok, you aren't running, as simple as that. Why oxygen...

On the Astrid Jacobsen I'd add that people can lie in the snow for five or ten minutes even when they are completely fine, just lie there, or when they are fine physically. Sometimes people decide to lie down in the snow, sometimes maybe don't have the will to stand up, but their body is fine. We know nothing.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

It's not an isolated incident with her, however, and over the years she's developed something of a history as a Pechvogel, from her brother's untimely death to her bike crash back in the early days of her career.

Well, at least with her brother's death search for link begins to be little bit...sorcerous? or conspirative for my liking.

"Pechvogel" is an idiomatic term meaning somebody who's plagued by bad fortune, which Astrid certainly would seem to be. That particular point was not making a doping link at all.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

It's not an isolated incident with her, however, and over the years she's developed something of a history as a Pechvogel, from her brother's untimely death to her bike crash back in the early days of her career.

Well, at least with her brother's death search for link begins to be little bit...sorcerous? or conspirative for my liking.

"Pechvogel" is an idiomatic term meaning somebody who's plagued by bad fortune, which Astrid certainly would seem to be. That particular point was not making a doping link at all.

I know what Pechogel means. She lying still in the finish for couple minutes and bike fall and at most brother's death mentioned in one breath somehow seems inapropriate to me. I don't know how to explain that feeling though; maybe like show me one 29 years human being who has isolated accident of any kind. We all are one big Pechvogel, with some exceptions. Or lying in snow makes you Pechvogel somehow? Nope.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's more to do with the timing than anything else, and also to put forward a possible reason for why little attention was paid to her collapse from the perspective of this thread than might otherwise have been. She was 2nd in the World Cup overall back in 2008, but then had two poor seasons led mainly by injuries, especially her 2009 bike crash, and then it took her several years to get back to prominence, winning her first race in six years in January 2014, but then having got back to the forefront of the sport at Sochi, her brother's death understandably completely overshadowed the Olympics for her. And so when she reaches her season's goal in a non-Worlds/Olympics year and suffers a collapse/blackout only a couple of days in, it just seems like another setback. Is it as serious as her bike crash or her brother's death? Of course not, but the point was not to conflate those.

My point that you took exception too was actually two separate statements:
- it (the Lenzerheide collapse) is not an isolated incident with her (she has had fatigue issues before, albeit not to the extent as in Lenzerheide)
- she is becoming something of a Pechvogel (she keeps having bad fortune at inopportune times, such as suffering injury or bereavement).

 

[Discgear]

Forgive me for not having anything to contribute in the Pechvogel discussion.

Since this is a cycling forum, and concerning the buzz around Team Sky in cycling and the Norwegians in XC-skiing. What’s your take on, that two Sports Directors of Team Sky are former Norwegian pro riders. Both have been a part of Olympiatoppen.

Kurt Asle Arvesen, who got the position Sports Director at 2015 after two seasons as Race Coach helping riders achieve their maximum potential

Gabriel Rasch who made the transition from rider to Sports Director in 2014 after helping the team to five victories including Chris Froome’s Tour de Romande triumph.

 

[oevkride]

Kurt Asle Arvesen, who got the position Sports Director at 2015 after two seasons as Race Coach helping riders achieve their maximum potential

Gabriel Rasch who made the transition from rider to Sports Director in 2014 after helping the team to five victories including Chris Froome’s Tour de Romande triumph.

I doubt that is is their "alternative" skills that got them DS positions at Sky. Arvesen held road captains roles in both Sky and Saxo. Rasch has experience as classics road-captain. And Sky's other DS' has not really excelled in the classics .

Like many other Norwegian cyclists (Hushovd, EBH, Kristoff, Nordhaug, Kaggestad etc.) for the last 15 years, KAA has a XC-skiing background. (His best result was 17th in junior nationals.) As far as I found, Rasch was not. I don't think there are any link between them and "Asthma-gate". Also I think any "special" knowledge would be obtained in their respective teams, not from Norwegian national cycling team. The national cycling federation is small and don't get the same special treatment as the skiers. One example is Vegard Robinson Bugge - ((in Norwegian) http://www.sykkelmagasinet.no/aktuelt/ulike-verdener-for-to-naermest-identiske-brudd/) who did not get any help from the cycling federation or team when he got caught using asthma medicine where his TUE had expired. Attitude was rider f***ed up - rider's problem, how it should be.

Regarding Rasch he did participate in a WADA-arranged EPO-test in 1997 with fellow norwegian cyclist Mads Kaggestad (former CA). Rasch was the one getting placebo and left trailing in the dust.
(in norwegian: http://www.vg.no/sport/sykkel/doping/kaggestad-fikk-epo-jeg-kom-i-toppform/a/10055308/ )
So surely he knows what difference it makes...

 

[Lyon]

Like you say, it probably isn't because of some special skills that those Norwegians are hired by Sky but rather because of a similarity in mindset, a mindset that no doubt also extends to the missuse of tue's. It was 'everybodies' understanding in the early to mid-nineties that to keep up with the dirty Italians and Russians the Norwegian skiers had to bend the rules a little. It was never really spoken of much in public, for fear (I would guess) that the average fan would react negatively to it. However, the average fans perception of sport have changed quite a bit since then and that is why it is so strange to observe just how difficult it is for both the Norwegian Skiing Federation and Sky to come clean about the things they do. It makes them look guilty of more than have been found out.

 

[python]

...It was 'everybodies' understanding in the early to mid-nineties that to keep up with the dirty Italians and Russians the Norwegian skiers had to bend the rules a little.

a little ? not sure, but if i understood this right, it's a reference/comparison of an asthma med like salbutamol to epo ? the norges more than kept up and it would be reasonable to assume a tad more...

i suspect the asthma gate just scraped the iceberg.

check out the TOTAL secrecy still surrounding the fis decision to acquit sundby not likely in any other international fed :idea: even the corrupt uci under verbruggen was more transparent !!!

- b/c the fis refused to make the hearing documents public, we still dont know the FULL argumentation of how sundby was let off the hook

- b/c the fis refused to release the names, we still dont know WHO on the fis panel acquitted him

--b/c the fis has something to hide, the full details of the 2 sundby studies (the london and the oslo) are not public (just vague references in the cas verdict are available)

i'd be happy to be found wrong if anyone can refute the 3 above statements :sad:

this is in direct contradiction of the statements 'we have nothing to hide'. then, it is a human nature to suspect the worse. isn't it ?

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

...It was 'everybodies' understanding in the early to mid-nineties that to keep up with the dirty Italians and Russians the Norwegian skiers had to bend the rules a little.

a little ? not sure, but if i understood this right, it's a reference/comparison of an asthma med like salbutamol to epo ? the norges more than kept up and it would be reasonable to assume a tad more...

i suspect the asthma gate just scraped the iceberg.

check out the TOTAL secrecy still surrounding the fis decision to acquit sundby not likely in any other international fed :idea: even the corrupt uci under verbruggen was more transparent !!!

- b/c the fis refused to make the hearing documents public, we still dont know the FULL argumentation of how sundby was let off the hook

- b/c the fis refused to release the names, we still dont know WHO on the fis panel acquitted him

--b/c the fis has something to hide, the full details of the 2 sundby studies (the london and the oslo) are not public (just vague references in the cas verdict are available)

i'd be happy to be found wrong if anyone can refute the 3 above statements :sad:

this is in direct contradiction of the statements 'we have nothing to hide'. then, it is a human nature to suspect the worse. isn't it ?

I second that. I think the Norwegians still don't want to really believe that the national team was as suspicious as anyone back in the day and even today. I understand stand, to some extent. Nobody wants to believe that their club, or team or national team is suspicious, but the double standards that the Norwegians have operated on for years is slowly being eroded.

These bs excuses such as the one above where people say 'oh, but they were just trying to keep up with the dirty Russians, Finns, Italians, etc...' Really? Could it be the other way around? Could it be that the others had to find a way to keep up with the dirty Norwegians? Henrik Kristoffersen is absolutely right. The Norwegians shouldn't be pointing fingers at others until they come clean (pun intended). They also need to get a grasp on reality and come to terms with the fact that their stars, starting with the advent of EPO in the mid to late 80's, dominated the Nordic world by other means than simply 'better skis, better wax, good grinds, culture, hard work, healthy living, etc.'

 

[Random Direction]

BullsFan - the more I think about it, the various reasons for the Norwegians being faster over the years is eerily similar to marginal gains. Reason a, b ,c ,d ,e ,f, g.... why they are faster, but realistically in the end it comes down to doping. Perhaps marginally better doping, but doping nonetheless. I remember watching the world cup in Thunder Bay in 1992 from the course and the North Americans who I raced against looked like boys compared to the scandal avian (oops, spellchecker on an Android changed Scandinavian to that) and European men. Probably was all EPO, sadly, including for the Norwegians who were viewed almost as Gods.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

BullsFan - the more I think about it, the various reasons for the Norwegians being faster over the years is eerily similar to marginal gains. Reason a, b ,c ,d ,e ,f, g.... why they are faster, but realistically in the end it comes down to doping. Perhaps marginally better doping, but doping nonetheless. I remember watching the world cup in Thunder Bay in 1992 from the course and the North Americans who I raced against looked like boys compared to the scandal avian (oops, spellchecker on an Android changed Scandinavian to that) and European men. Probably was all EPO, sadly, including for the Norwegians who were viewed almost as Gods.

Speaking of Thunder Bay. World Championships in Thunder Bay, 1995. Good times. The blood levels must have been through the roof for all those top guys. The Norwegians, Italians, Finns, Smirnov...The 50km that Silvio Fauner won was something else.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Speaking of Thunder Bay. World Championships in Thunder Bay, 1995. Good times. The blood levels must have been through the roof for all those top guys. The Norwegians, Italians, Finns, Smirnov...The 50km that Silvio Fauner won was something else.

Yeah, those were some times. Nostalgy. Man, most of us were all pretty delusional regarding sport back then, right? And it was nice. Now delusions/illusions are gone...

 

[Lyon]

*** excuses you say, but the facts/results points to the Norwegians either being late to party (that started in the 70's) or late to perfecting it. Either way 'having to bend the rules in order to be competitive" rang true - for a while. What can be discussed is when this ringing true started, and when it ended. My guess is that it ended sometime around Albertville or the year before.

Judging from the same facts/results it seems certain that the Swedes got on the blood-doping train much sooner (though they where certainly not the driving force) and that the Norwegians (like in most things back then) simply followed their lead. What benefited the Norwegians was that their getting on the train coincided with skiing (as well as sport in general) changing, becoming more modern, professional and more dependent upon money and manpower. This change has made it much easier for groups (nobody is an individual in modern sports) to dominate their chosen sport.

 

[John de Savage]

imo one of the sports most talented skiers - and certainly one of the best skaters maurice manificat isn't mincing his words, 'how can the norwegians be so harsh on punishing the russians, when their own record is not clean ?

http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/raser-mot-norges-skiforbund---er-de-egentlig-noe-bedre-enn-russland/61087822#_ga=1.161987707.653649278.1469027514

Two for today.
And Manificat says it's 'incredible what Norwegians believe' , plus lots of other stuff - well worth a look. http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/frans...-utrolig-hva-det-norske-folk-tror-pa/61001643

Manificat admits to having used asthma medication without having asthma.
https://www.nrk.no/sport/kritiserte-norges-astmabruk---brukte-selv-astmamedisin-1.13166471

Case in point, when people like Kowalczyk and Vaelbe make thought provoking comments regarding widespread asthma in the Norwegian camp, Fasterskier wrote puff pieces in trying to 'debunk' what K. and V. said. It was clear to me that they were trying to defend the Norwegians and make K and V look like fools. Thankfully, Kowalczyk and Vaelbe have been proven correct.

Legkov and Chernousov use asthma medication without having asthma.
https://www.nrk.no/sport/syke-utovere-far-startnekt-_-ikke-medisin-1.13137602

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

imo one of the sports most talented skiers - and certainly one of the best skaters maurice manificat isn't mincing his words, 'how can the norwegians be so harsh on punishing the russians, when their own record is not clean ?

http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/raser-mot-norges-skiforbund---er-de-egentlig-noe-bedre-enn-russland/61087822#_ga=1.161987707.653649278.1469027514

Two for today.
And Manificat says it's 'incredible what Norwegians believe' , plus lots of other stuff - well worth a look. http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/frans...-utrolig-hva-det-norske-folk-tror-pa/61001643

Manificat admits to having used asthma medication without having asthma.
https://www.nrk.no/sport/kritiserte-norges-astmabruk---brukte-selv-astmamedisin-1.13166471

Case in point, when people like Kowalczyk and Vaelbe make thought provoking comments regarding widespread asthma in the Norwegian camp, Fasterskier wrote puff pieces in trying to 'debunk' what K. and V. said. It was clear to me that they were trying to defend the Norwegians and make K and V look like fools. Thankfully, Kowalczyk and Vaelbe have been proven correct.

Legkov and Chernousov use asthma medication without having asthma.
https://www.nrk.no/sport/syke-utovere-far-startnekt-_-ikke-medisin-1.13137602

Which proves my point on FS going out of its way to write pieces which claim that asthma medicine for non-asthmatics isn't performance enhancing.

Legkov also 'admitted' to taking meldonium years ago. Granted it wasn't on the banned list and as far as asthma meds are concerned, Isabel Knauthe, his physio, said that does take asthma meds. This came out before the NRK article and by my understanding, he does have asthma. That was what I gathered from it. Though apparently, according to an interview with skisport.ru, Legkov talked about an interview 'that didn't exist' with a foreign news service. Perhaps he referred to NRK. I'll try to find that article from skisport.ru and share it here.

Anyway, all these guys are coming out as pro cyclists, Manificat, Legkov, Sundby, Chernousov, etc.