Doping in XC skiing

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Mar 4, 2010
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ophene said:
Neuner is just way too good it is almost good that she's is going to retire next year. The womens biathlon needs more exitment..
WOMEN'S WORLD CUP TOTAL SCORE

1. NEUNER Magdalena 990
2. DOMRACHEVA Darya 945
3. MÄKÄRÄINEN Kaisa 807

138 points separating the top 2 is more exciting than 45 points? Domracheva will smash everyone next year.
 
Tyler'sTwin said:
WOMEN'S WORLD CUP TOTAL SCORE

1. NEUNER Magdalena 990
2. DOMRACHEVA Darya 945
3. MÄKÄRÄINEN Kaisa 807

138 points separating the top 2 is more exciting than 45 points? Domracheva will smash everyone next year.
Losing your brightest star is never a good thing for a sport.
Especially if your brightest star quits at age 25.
Let's face it, the question why she really left so early doesn't really shine brightly on the sport of biathlon.
 
May 19, 2010
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A Finnish documentary film called "Sinivalkoinen valhe" premiers today. It contains accusations against the coach Jarmo Punkkinen (blood doping on the Italian national team) and Juha Mieto (steorids). The article about the film also says something about Norwegian skiing, but it is not specific. The trailer contains a short clip of Norwegian senior anti doping doctor Inggar Lereim saying something about the Finish always accusing the Norwegians.

http://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2012/09/24/dopningsfilm-river-upp-gamla-sar (Swedish)
 
Mar 4, 2010
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It's very likely norwegian skiers were on EPO in the 90's.

Visions,plans and hopes can the doping culture be changed? - PPT Presentation

Slide 14:

1995; some skiers had 20 g/100 ml with all medal winners above 17.5 g /100 ml

1999 some 30 male skiers between 17.0- 18.7 g/100 ml; medal winners > 17.0 g/100ml
http://www.powershow.com/view/5bbd2-ODNjN/Visionsplans_and_hopes_can_the_doping_culture_be_changed_flash_ppt_presentation

1995 Worlds:

10 km classical

Medal Athlete Time
Gold Vladimir Smirnov (KAZ) 24:52.3
Silver Bjørn Dæhlie (NOR) 25:10.1
Bronze Mika Myllylä (FIN) 25:11.5

30 km classical

Medal Athlete Time
Gold Vladimir Smirnov (KAZ) 1:15:52.3
Silver Bjørn Dæhlie (NOR) 1:16:52.4
Bronze Alexey Prokurorov (RUS) 1:17:35.6

50 km freestyle

Medal Athlete Time
Gold Silvio Fauner (ITA) 1:56:36.0
Silver Bjørn Dæhlie (NOR) 1:57:48.5
Bronze Vladimir Smirnov (KAZ) 1:58:10.7

4 × 10 km relay

Medal Team Time
Gold Norway (Sture Sivertsen, Erling Jevne, Bjørn Dæhlie, Thomas Alsgaard) 1:34:27.1
Silver Finland (Karri Hietamäki, Harri Kirvesniemi, Jari Räsänen, Jari Isometsä) 1:35:10.5
Bronze Italy (Fulvio Valbusa, Marco Albarello, Fabio Maj, Silvio Fauner) 1:36:28.4

1999 Worlds:

10 km classical

Medal Athlete Time
Gold Mika Myllylä (FIN) 24:19.2
Silver Alois Stadlober (AUT) 24:34.7
Bronze Odd-Bjørn Hjelmeset (NOR) 24:37.1

10 km + 15 km combined pursuit

Medal Athlete Time
Gold Thomas Alsgaard (NOR) 1:05:54.9
Silver Mika Myllylä (FIN) 1:05:55.6
Bronze Fulvio Valbusa (ITA) 1:06:17.6

30 km freestyle

Medal Athlete Time
Gold Mika Myllylä (FIN) 1:15:26.2
Silver Thomas Alsgaard (NOR) 1:16:01.5
Bronze Bjørn Dæhlie (NOR) 1:16:08.7

4 × 10 km relay

Medal Team Time
Gold Austria (Markus Gandler, Alois Stadlober, Mikhail Botvinov, Christian Hoffman) 1:35:07.5
Silver Norway (Espen Bjervig, Erling Jevne, Bjørn Dæhlie, Thomas Alsgaard) 1:35:07.7
Bronze Italy (Giorgio Di Centa, Fabio Maj, Fulvio Valbusa, Silvio Fauner) 1:36:38.1

- Her er våre blodverdier (- Here are our blood values) (2001)

Thomas Alsgaard (29)
Highest: 17,1
Lowest: 15,0
Normal: 15,9

Kristen Skjeldal (33)
Høyest: 17,6
Lavest: 14,5
Normal: 15,2

Odd-Bjørn Hjelmeset (29)
Høyest: 15,6
Lavest: 13,9
Normal: 14,5

Espen Bjervig (28)
Høyest: 15,2
Lavest: 13,5
Normal: 14,5

Håvard Solbakken (27)
Høyest: 17,5
Lavest: 14,5
Normal: 16,0

Tor Arne Hetland (27)
Høyest: 16,1
Lavest: 14,9
Normal: 15,2

Frode Estil (28)
Høyest: 17,5
Lavest: 15,5
Normal: 16,0

Erling Jevne (34)
Høyest: 16,7
Lavest: 14,0
Normal: 15,0

Jan Jacob Verdenius (27)
Høyest: 16,6
Lavest: 14,9
Normal: 15,7

Tore Bjonviken (26)
Høyest: 17,8
Lavest: 15,5
Normal: 16,0

Elin Nilsen (32)
Høyest: 16,3
Lavest: 13,5
Normal: 14,5

Hilde Gjermundshaug Pedersen (36)
Høyest: 14,0
Lavest: 12,5
Normal: 13,5

Tina Bay (27)
Høyest: 13,9
Lavest: 12,9
Normal: 13,4

Marit Bjørgen (20)
Høyest: 14,2
Lavest: 13,8
Normal: 14,0

Vibeke W. Skofterud (20)
Høyest: 14,1
Lavest: 12,8
Normal: 13,3

Ine Wigernæs (31)
Høyest: 15,6
Lavest: 13,5
Normal: 14,4

Marit Roaldset (23)
Høyest: 14,0
Lavest: 13,0
Normal: 13,2

Maj Helen Sorkmo (31)
Høyest: 16,7
Lavest: 13,9
Normal: 14,3

Bente Skari (28)
Dagbladet could not get ahold of Bente Skari last night, but according to her personal trainer, Dag Kaas, Bente is as low as between 12 and 13 in hemoglobin.

http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/2001/03/06/245493.html

Note Hjelmeset's very normal values.

Odd-Bjørn Hjelmeset (29)
Høyest: 15,6
Lavest: 13,9
Normal: 14,5
However...

1999 some 30 male skiers between 17.0- 18.7 g/100 ml; medal winners > 17.0 g/100ml
1999 Worlds:

10 km classical

Medal Athlete Time
Gold Mika Myllylä (FIN) 24:19.2
Silver Alois Stadlober (AUT) 24:34.7
Bronze Odd-Bjørn Hjelmeset (NOR) 24:37.1
Either he lied about his blood values (which is very suspicious in itself) or his Hb at the -99 worlds is extremely suspicious.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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neineinei said:
A Finnish documentary film called "Sinivalkoinen valhe" premiers today. It contains accusations against the coach Jarmo Punkkinen (blood doping on the Italian national team) and Juha Mieto (steorids). The article about the film also says something about Norwegian skiing, but it is not specific. The trailer contains a short clip of Norwegian senior anti doping doctor Inggar Lereim saying something about the Finish always accusing the Norwegians.

http://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2012/09/24/dopningsfilm-river-upp-gamla-sar (Swedish)
The documentary Sinivalkoinen valhe had his first press preview on Monday. The film takes up the previous use of doping in Finnish but also Norwegian and Italian skiing. Suspicions of fraud directed in particular against ski legend Juha Mieto, coach Jarmo Punkkinen and his protégé Italian Manuela Di Centa.

The Olympic champion in weightlifting, Kaarlo Kangasniemi, claims in the film that Juha Mieto in 1975 asked him for advice on the use of anabolic steroids. According to Kangasniemi the discussion took place in a sauna in Saarijärvi. Kangasniemi had asked Mieto about how much he used anabolic steroids.

- He said, five milligrams dianabol says Kangasniemi. Dianabol is an anabolic steroid.

Kangasniemi says in the documentary that he adviced Mieto that endurance athletes can not use more than 10-15 milligrams of steroids a day.

- He thanked me for the advice. He had a successful career, continues Kangasniemi.

Kangasniemi has admitted that he used steroids during his career. When Kangasniemi won Olympic gold in 1968 steroids were not yet banned.

Juha Mieto denies any use of doping to Yle Urheilu.

- There is no evidence, that's for sure. I deny everything, says Mieto.

Punkkinen denies allegations

Jarmo Punkkinen served as coach of the Italian ski team during the years 1984-90. Documentary film Sinivalkoinen valhe argues that during Punkkinens time you were not selected for the Italian national team in case you did not agree to dope. In particular, blood doping was systematic in Italy during the 1980s, claims the then national team rider Giuseppe Pulié in the film.

- Blood doping was used until 1988, perhaps longer. After that went over to other methods, says Pulié.

According to Punkkinen, Pulié belonged to the B-squad during his time in Italy. Punkkinen succeeded Vilho Sade Harju as head coach of the Italian A-Team. During Sadeharjus time blood doping was allowed in sports. Blood doping wasn't banned until 1985.

Punkkinen is sad that the documentary is out of context and has only one angle and a narrow approach to skiing.

- It seems that you do not really take account of the huge shift from classic skiing to free style skiing techniques, and the different nations reactions to the changed circumstances. You could say that ski sport in 1985 started from scratch, says Punkkinen.

- Another fact that is not touched is Cera F-glide wax used solely by the Italian national team in the years 1984-87. Even today, it is impossible to do well in the competition without fluoride wax, continues Punkkinen.

Jarmo Punkkinen has also previously been accused of having participated in blood doping. The coach has systematically denied the allegations.

- I think it's a shame that doping testing in the 1980s was not as well developed as today. My line has always been clear: the more it is tested, the better, says Punkkinen.

Manuela Di Centa accused of epo use

According to doping researcher Sandro Donati the Italian Olympic champion Manuela Di Centa is one of the skiers who certainly have used EPO.

- Di Centa is one of the 33 athletes who certainly have used EPO hormone according to the prosecution experts, says Donati, referring to the police investigation that was made about ten years ago.

Di Centa is alleged to have started the use of EPO in 1993 under the leadership of Professor Francesco Conconi. A year later, Di Centa won two gold medals at the Olympics in Lillehammer. Di Centa was never caught for using doping.

Jarmo Punkkinen served as Di Centas coach in the years 1987-91 while he trained the Italian national team. According to the former coach of the italian women's national team Dario Bellodis (1995-97) Punkkinen continued to train Di Centa much longer.

- From what I know Punkkinen trained Di Centa at least until 1996. I do not know what kind of training it was all about, says Bellodis in the documentary.

Punkkinen denies the allegation to Yle Urheilu.

- My contract in Italy ended in spring 1990, but from Finland, I continued practicing Di Centa another year, then up to the World Championships in Val di Fiemme 1991. I do not know Bellodis, and his assertion that I continued practicing Di Centa until 1996 is not true, Punkkinen asserts.

http://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2012/09/24/dopningsfilm-river-upp-gamla-sar
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Former national team level skier Giuseppe Pulié says that before the 1988 Calgary Olympics all the athletes went to Ferrara's research clinic of donations of blood for refueling.

- After I told the doctor that if you participate in the Olympic Games in Calgary, I do not agree to the use of blood filling the tank. Apparently, it bothered someone, and that's why I immediately dropped the team.
- Blood Refueling suggested to me for the first time in 1986. Punkkinen and (assistant coach Alessandro) Vanoi knew exactly who used and who did not, and Conconi was involved, Barco says the documentary.
Documentary film of the skiers Pierino Confortola, Albert Walder and Giulio Capitanio witnessed in the late 1990s during police questioning, that they were using the blood filling the tank under the leadership of the national team coach, and that most of the men's national team was involved in the plot.
Document, associate professor of Italian, doping researcher Sandro Donati says that Italy was becoming Punkkinen lead of the team, which was the experience of a blood transfusion.

Donati is convinced that Punkkinen worked closely with Francesco Conconi with. Professor at the University of Ferrara, is said to have learned the secrets of blood fueling the Finns and the Finnish resistance especially runners.
http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=sv&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http://yle.fi/urheilu/hiihtovalmentaja_kiistaa_dokumenttielokuvan_vaitteet_dopingista/6306308
 
May 19, 2010
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The Norwegian connection seems to be dr. Helge Oftebro who claims doping in Norway is causing suicides. No sports specified and no names. He says he has treated hundreds of persons for problems related to doping. They had used mostly steorids, but also amphetamines and EPO.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/laakari_doping_aiheuttanut_itsemurhia_norjassa/6306338 (Finnish)

Oftebro was involved in the doping case against Erik Tysse (speed walker, positive for CERA) where he defended Tysse.

He also made some statements in the 2002 Gerhard Helskog TV program Rikest tilstand. Some of them were interesting and specific, like his questions about why 72 liters of HES couldn't be accounted for after the Lillehammer Olympics. Other things he said was vague. He claimed that he'd seen locker rooms that looked like a war time surgery, with syringes and blood. Later he more or less admitted that this was the locker rooms of body builders and other activities not organized by the The Norwegian Olympic and Paralympic Committee and Confederation of Sports.
 
Tyler'sTwin said:
It's very likely norwegian skiers were on EPO in the 90's.




Either he lied about his blood values (which is very suspicious in itself) or his Hb at the -99 worlds is extremely suspicious.
This post came up in another thread, and was further discussed.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17476&page=26

Post number 504 and on a little bit.

Perhaps we ended the discussion prematurely because it was off topic there. Anyway some counters to the above post.
 
neineinei said:
The Norwegian connection seems to be dr. Helge Oftebro who claims doping in Norway is causing suicides. No sports specified and no names. He says he has treated hundreds of persons for problems related to doping. They had used mostly steorids, but also amphetamines and EPO.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/laakari_doping_aiheuttanut_itsemurhia_norjassa/6306338 (Finnish)

Oftebro was involved in the doping case against Erik Tysse (speed walker, positive for CERA) where he defended Tysse.

He also made some statements in the 2002 Gerhard Helskog TV program Rikest tilstand. Some of them were interesting and specific, like his questions about why 72 liters of HES couldn't be accounted for after the Lillehammer Olympics. Other things he said was vague. He claimed that he'd seen locker rooms that looked like a war time surgery, with syringes and blood. Later he more or less admitted that this was the locker rooms of body builders and other activities not organized by the The Norwegian Olympic and Paralympic Committee and Confederation of Sports.
Thanks!

Seems like a rehash of the Gerhard Helskog program.

For those who don't know about the program here is a quick rundown.

In 2002 the investigative TV show Rikets Tilstand thought they had a huge story. It was very tabloid production, talking about doping at the 1994 Lillehammer Olympics.

Here is a quick extract:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Oqo6e1qYI

Now the proof the program used was a list of over 150 products bought. These included fertility drugs, heavy tranquilizers etc.

The problem for Helskog was that he had misunderstood the List. It was actually a product list from the medical company Astra and apparently only 20 items from this list were actually bought.

IIRC the only suspect thing actually bought were 72 liters of Macrodex, which according to Helskog would be enough to dope 100s of athletes.

According to Helskog no one could account for these 72 liters of plasma volume expander.

Now another problem for Helskog was that they had prior to the program talked several times with the Head pharmacist at the Lillehammer hospital pharmacy who said that they had received all of this after the games. Apparently Helskog's program failed to include this information.

Helskog initially defended himself with the fact that there were no receipts. The Pharmacist said they were lost when the hospital moved many years earlier.

Now one might believe receipts missing in well run Norway is unheard of. There must be some conspiracy here. Well there have been stories in the media some years ago where a hospital accidentally dumped patient journals in a container. The journals were carried by the wind, and neighbors could read patient journals.:eek:

So if hospitals can dump highly sensitive journals like this, seeing several year old receipts disappear does not take much of a stretch of the imagination.

Now here is the kicker. The original order on which the hole program based itself on was actually from the Lillehammer Olympic Organizing Committee. The point was to have all these drugs in case of a catastrophe with mass casualties among the audience(train crash/ buss crash etc.). All of the different doctors on the sports teams had their own drugs with them, so if they planned on doing any doping, I would assume they did'nt rely on stuff they could procure on site.

Helskog and TV2 had to apologize and pay money for ads in international media, and also give money to the sports federation or doping agency or something.

Helskog was exiled by TV2 to become it's US correspondent for a few years.

It was really shoddy journalism and a lack of willingness to see anything that did not fit with the narrative.

Here are some quick sources in Norwegian:
http://www.idag.no/ledere-oppslag.php3?ID=2356
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2003/01/31/360354.html

About Macrodex:
http://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/macrodex
High-molecular weight dextran is a plasma volume expander derived from natural sources of sugar (glucose). It works by restoring blood plasma lost through severe bleeding.
I'm not sure of it's relevance to doping. If I understand correctly it can be used to lower the hematocrit/haemoglobin levels. But in 1994 there were no limits on these values, so lovering would have been pointless.

As for Oftebro, he is not known as someone with a huge credibility. And those doping victims he talked about could be anything from top weightlifters to lower ranked body builders.

In an article today relating to the Finnish film:
http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/09/25/sport/langrenn/doping/helge_oftebro/sinivalkoinen_valhe/23569774/

He talks about 100 Norwegian athletes damaged by doping who he treated in a period from the middle of the 80s into the 90s. Interestingly he say the psychological problems were worse, relating to aggression, depression etc.

With heavy testosterone use like with the East Germans, I think there were heavy physical problems, so the users he treated might not have been such heavy users.

The Norwegian connection in this film seems like clutching at straws that have been dead for ten years.

I'm sure for the Finns it would be nice to think they were not the only bad guys, and the Norwegians did bad stuff too. The problem is there is no evidence of any doping in Norwegian skiing. Nor has there ever been any.


I think that one of the worst doping cases we have ever had is Erik Tysse in 2010, and speed walking is not related to the winter, and is not really followed by people afaik. The biggest scandal before that were some discos throwers or something in 89-90.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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I find it hard to believe that the norwegians managed to beat all those doped to the eyeballs italians, russians, finns etc without being on the juice themselves.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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ToreBear said:
I'm sure for the Finns it would be nice to think they were not the only bad guys, and the Norwegians did bad stuff too. The problem is there is no evidence of any doping in Norwegian skiing. Nor has there ever been any.
Except the FACT that they had sky high hemoglobin just like all the other EPO-chargers. Abnormal blood is evidence you know. Just ask Franco Pellizotti. But I'm sure those 9 (that we know of) norwegians with blood in the please-take-a-14-day-vacation-range all had naturally high values or magic altitude tents that raise Hb by 3 g/dl.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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the sceptic said:
I find it hard to believe that the norwegians managed to beat all those doped to the eyeballs italians, russians, finns etc without being on the juice themselves.
Don't worry, it's because their superior ski prep throughout the entire 90's gave them an advantage worth several minutes! Or that was the official explanation until we found out they had Hb values that would make Dr. Celaya scramble for the saline bags while Johan has coffee with the DCO's.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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workingclasshero said:
whose powerpoint pres is this
Tyler'sTwin said:
I would assume it's FIS-data.
Tyler'sTwin said:
Except the FACT that they had sky high hemoglobin just like all the other EPO-chargers.
come on you have to able to at least find out where your numbers came from, assuming they're from FIS doesn't really cut it as something we can use as a nailed on fact (not even if you type it out as FACT).
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Look through the freaking presentation, dude. It's brimming with FIS-data, fgs. :rolleyes:

It's incredibly obvious that it's an FIS presentation.
 
May 19, 2010
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ToreBear said:
I think that one of the worst doping cases we have ever had is Erik Tysse in 2010, and speed walking is not related to the winter, and is not really followed by people afaik. The biggest scandal before that were some discos throwers or something in 89-90.
All the Norwegian male "top" throwers, discus, shot put and hammer, at the time was caught doping.

* Lars Arvid Nilsen, shot put, caught in 1987 (probenecid + anabolic steorids) and 1993 (anabolic steorids). In the between those two "incidents" he won the silver in the 1991 Tokyo World Championships, after his teammate Georg Andersen tested positive. Nilsen is a lawyer.

* Trond Ulleberg, shot put, caught in 1987 (probenecid). He is now teaching at the Norwegian School of Sport Sciences.

* Arne Pedersen, shot put and discus, caught in 1987 (probenecid)

* Kåre Sagedal, hammer and shot put, caught in 1987 (probenecid), died this year at the age of 51.

* Jan Sagedal, shot put and discus, caught in 1987 (probenecid) and 1992 (metandienon)

(2xSagedal, Pedersen and Ulleberg was visiting Nilsen in Dallas where he was studying, and they were all caught at the same time.)

* Georg Andersen, shot put, caught in 1991 (anabolic steorids). He denies and appeals, but the ban is upheld, While excluded he refuses to give a sample in 1992, and gets away with it. Andersen was at the time studying to become a police man and is now working in the Norwegian police.

+ Knut Hjeltnes, discus and shot put, caught in 1977 (anabolic steorids). He admitted doping.

+ Kjell Ove Hauge, discus and shot put, caught in 1998 (methandrostenolone). Admitted doping.

The only Norwegian sports person who has outdone the throwers is the sprinter Aham Okeke. He was caught three times before he was banned permanently.
 

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Jul 28, 2009
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neineinei said:
(2xSagedal, Pedersen and Ulleberg was visiting Nilsen in Dallas where he was studying, and they were all caught at the same time.)
Dallas Texas? Home of Lance Armstrong and Ed Coyle? :eek:
 

the big ring

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neineinei said:
All the Norwegian male "top" throwers, discus, shot put and hammer, at the time was caught doping.
...
The only Norwegian sports person who has outdone the throwers is the sprinter Aham Okeke. He was caught three times before he was banned permanently.
Is this indicative of track and field across the board, or is it a case of Norwegians being more capable at catching athletes or...

ie from the same time period do we see US or another sporting powerhouse with similar hauls of dopers. If not, is it because they were behind (unlikely) or because USOC were a corrupt bunch (definitely - SI has the proof).

So what has changed? 97ml/mm/kg for a kid on a bike is incredible. Is noone doping now? Are they being caught?
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Look through the freaking presentation, dude. It's brimming with FIS-data, fgs. :rolleyes:

It's incredibly obvious that it's an FIS presentation.
spaccy eyes :rolleyes: well done. :rolleyes: you really know how to play this argument game.

why don't you rather try and come up with a convincing link or explanation, you've yet to do so. I don't really distrust the numbers but I'd like to know I can and so far you've done f*** all to make me dare believe it to be true
 

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