Doping in XC skiing

[zarnack]

Re:

Going back to Biathlon WC. Has anyone noticed how Germans suddenly got faster. For me the outstanding improvement is Peiffer. It was noticeable in all his starts so far capped by gold medal. The German women is another category itself when Herrmann is style of Wilhelm and Neuner from the past suddenly become accurate in last standing shot to grab gold, flying on the tracks as well. This has been the story of decades with German biathlon taken to another level in Olympics or WCH. Anyone else feeling a bit suspicious?

Herrmann has always been fast skier, it's just that she has gradually learnt shooting too. By the way, apart from her and Dahlmeier no other German woman has been particularly impressive. Apart from Peiffer's gold no other German man has been in top 6 in individual events.

Personally I find the way Swedes nail their form for biathlon championships more impressive.

But you can find suspicious stuff in many things if you want. I think Germans in general have proven to be elite biathlon competitors for many decades, so I don't find their performance unusual. It would be unusual if they didn't win any golds, rather than if they won.

 

[virenque216]

Re: Re:

Peiffer is skiing much faster now then all season. Only handful of men run faster,suddenly.
Herrmann is doing what Neuner or Willhelm did in past, out shooting everyone on last standing shot and then fly away home. This is down to managing the fatigue and holding the riffle still. I know its not unusual because they've been doing that for decades. An incredible efficiency in peeking at the right time. but a little suspicious in my eyes.

Herrmann has always been fast skier, it's just that she has gradually learnt shooting too. By the way, apart from her and Dahlmeier no other German woman has been particularly impressive. Apart from Peiffer's gold no other German man has been in top 6 in individual events.

Personally I find the way Swedes nail their form for biathlon championships more impressive.

But you can find suspicious stuff in many things if you want. I think Germans in general have proven to be elite biathlon competitors for many decades, so I don't find their performance unusual. It would be unusual if they didn't win any golds, rather than if they won.[/quote]

 

[poupou]

Swedes are at home so they have targeted that championship. They are very good at shooting, but not so impressive on skis.

 

[virenque216]

no one will convince me that Herrmann is not on juice looking at todays relay

 

[virenque216]

add Dahlmeier to that list, ridiculous

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

no one will convince me that Herrmann is not on juice looking at todays relay

Well she was already busted as a 19 year old.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Leg 4 ski time:
1 Dahlmeier
2 Olsbu Røiseland +6,8
3 P Fialková +10,7
4 Yurlova-Percht +18,6
5 Braisaz +21,5

Leg 3 ski time:
1 Herrmann
2 Kuzmina +20,6
3 Eckhoff +29,4
4 Magnusson +56,7
5 Kaisheva +1'01,5

Obviously having 3 of the top 5 fastest skiers in the World Cup on the same leg makes the gap down to Magnusson, Kaisheva et al huge, but Herrmann's ski time is clearly a much bigger outlier than Laura's. Laura had a great final lap trying to chase down Semerenko, but her actual time relative to competition isn't THAT outstanding, especially as Røiseland stopped to get the flag and eased across the line, it's just the Laura last lap breakdown that we've seen time and again in the past. If anything, I think this was a return to business as usual for Dahlmeier, whereas Herrmann taking such significant time out of Nastya and Tiril is much, much more notable, especially as Tiril was fighting for the win. And this is time outside of the range, so doesn't include Tiril's penalty loop.

 

[John de Savage]

Am I wrong or have the austrian biathletes gotten slower post Ehrfurt-raids?

 

[frenchfry]

Although I am doubtful that it will happen, the day Bolshunov is busted will be a good day for x-country.

 

[ppanther92]

Am i right in the assumption that the sudden steep decline of Fourcade can not possibly be blamed on his age (like claimed in TV). I mean, he was still dominant last year (togehter with Boe). Sure, let Boes outrun him. Fair enough. But he is not even competitive at this stage anymore. Seems very odd to me.

 

[frenchfry]

Re:

Am i right in the assumption that the sudden steep decline of Fourcade can not possibly be blamed on his age (like claimed in TV). I mean, he was still dominant last year (togehter with Boe). Sure, let Boes outrun him. Fair enough. But he is not even competitive at this stage anymore. Seems very odd to me.

There is clearly something that isn't normal, he says so himself. He can't even shoot straight anymore, but that may be related to lack of motivation given his disappointing results.

 

[alternator]

Re: Re:

Am i right in the assumption that the sudden steep decline of Fourcade can not possibly be blamed on his age (like claimed in TV). I mean, he was still dominant last year (togehter with Boe). Sure, let Boes outrun him. Fair enough. But he is not even competitive at this stage anymore. Seems very odd to me.

There is clearly something that isn't normal, he says so himself. He can't even shoot straight anymore, but that may be related to lack of motivation given his disappointing results.

A minor injury or sickness in the offseason, some overtraining, perhaps an undetected virus infection... and suddenly you have a completely miserable season.

Although, of course, Northug is not much older than Fourcade, and he pretty much fell off, never to recover, at the age Fourcade is now. A decade of constant hard competition at the very top, with several years of very hard training already before that, and maybe their bodies just can't recover any more. Of that generation of skiers, Cologna seems like a shadow of his old self, as well, and Hellner already quit.

 

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

Am i right in the assumption that the sudden steep decline of Fourcade can not possibly be blamed on his age (like claimed in TV). I mean, he was still dominant last year (togehter with Boe). Sure, let Boes outrun him. Fair enough. But he is not even competitive at this stage anymore. Seems very odd to me.

There is clearly something that isn't normal, he says so himself. He can't even shoot straight anymore, but that may be related to lack of motivation given his disappointing results.

I think the bad shooting is also party a direct consequence of his bad shape. To stay with competitors/lose not too much time he probably just has to go pretty deep or at least way deeper as in his prime. And that will not give him the best condition for the shooting.

 

[Discgear]

Another monster win by Johaug. She didn't comment the doping scandal in Seefeld before, but now she is ready.
https://www.expressen.se/sport/langdskidor/johaug-forfarligt-hor-inte-hemma-har/

"My starting point is that no one that starts in a race is not involved in things like this. I do only focus on myself and my own task". Way to go Johaug! We love you. :lol:

"I'm glad that a lot of work is going on behind the curtains. Evidently there is a lot going on that we are not aware of." Really?

 

[zarnack]

Another monster win by Johaug. She didn't comment the doping scandal in Seefeld before, but now she is ready.
https://www.expressen.se/sport/langdskidor/johaug-forfarligt-hor-inte-hemma-har/

"My starting point is that no one that starts in a race is not involved in things like this. I do only focus on myself and my own task". Way to go Johaug! We love you. :lol:

"I'm glad that a lot of work is going on behind the curtains. Evidently there is a lot going on that we are not aware of." Really?

I guess she still believes lip-balm was an accident and nothing shady was going on...

Generally speaking though, the scizophrenia of sporting world has started to annoy me. I mean if you asked any athlete about doping, they would say that they don't do it. But it looks like many actually do. Certainly in skiing it seems like it has been kind of proven the front-runners were all on EPO in the 90's. I guess today's shady advanced methods would be revealed in 20 years' time as well.

From ethical point of view it all sucks badly. You can't trust anyone, they are all lying. Sad.

 

[el_angliru]

"My starting point is that no one that starts in a race is not involved in things like this. I do only focus on myself and my own task". Way to go Johaug! We love you. :lol:

"I'm glad that a lot of work is going on behind the curtains. Evidently there is a lot going on that we are not aware of." Really?

I'm afraid these translations are a bit off. The meaning is rather:

"I always assume that no one is involved in stuff like that", and

"I'm glad a lot of investigation is going on..."

 

[BullsFan22]

Who knows, maybe Fourcade isn't doping as much this year. Perhaps also brought down to earth by JT Boe's dominance.

 

[poupou]

This season, Fourcade had changed of trainer and did a different preparation.
There is no reason to change of doping method if he dopes, without being caught. If he had been caught, he would not come back next year as he promised yesterday.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

This season, Fourcade had changed of trainer and did a different preparation.
There is no reason to change of doping method if he dopes, without being caught. If he had been caught, he would not come back next year as he promised yesterday.

Fourcade won’t ever be caught. He is too big for the sport of biathlon to fail.

 

[BullsFan22]

Well Libertine, I think it may be time to put Claire Egan, a 31 year old American that that never did anything of note in xc (was a journeywoman, if I can put it that way) here in the clinic.

 

[PeterB]

Re: Re:

This season, Fourcade had changed of trainer and did a different preparation.
There is no reason to change of doping method if he dopes, without being caught. If he had been caught, he would not come back next year as he promised yesterday.

Fourcade won’t ever be caught. He is too big for the sport of biathlon to fail.

You could have said the same about Johaug a few years back (and maybe you even did) and you would be proven wrong. Which does not mean that Fourcade will be exposed, but merely that the sentiment you are trying to suggest (too big = never caught) is not supported by evidence.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

This season, Fourcade had changed of trainer and did a different preparation.
There is no reason to change of doping method if he dopes, without being caught. If he had been caught, he would not come back next year as he promised yesterday.

Fourcade won’t ever be caught. He is too big for the sport of biathlon to fail.

You could have said the same about Johaug a few years back (and maybe you even did) and you would be proven wrong. Which does not mean that Fourcade will be exposed, but merely that the sentiment you are trying to suggest (too big = never caught) is not supported by evidence.

Johaug’s case was quite blatant though for them to punish her. Getting popped for using anabolic steroids will not go unnoticed. What’s even more scary is the amount of Norwegians that have systematically used asthma medication over the past, well, better part of 30 years and FIS has done nothing about it.

 

[zarnack]

Well Libertine, I think it may be time to put Claire Egan, a 31 year old American that that never did anything of note in xc (was a journeywoman, if I can put it that way) here in the clinic.

Looking at how the thread is evolving, I guess it's easier to ask, who isn't part of the clinic?

 

[BullsFan22]

Well Libertine, I think it may be time to put Claire Egan, a 31 year old American that that never did anything of note in xc (was a journeywoman, if I can put it that way) here in the clinic.

Looking at how the thread is evolving, I guess it's easier to ask, who isn't part of the clinic?

I understand that. My point with this particular post was to echo some concerns that Libertine brought up in the Nordic/BIathlon thread regarding comparisons between Nordic and biathlon.

 

[frenchfry]

Excellent interview with Alex Harvey. Among other topics related to his illustrious career, he discusses doping and how dopers have stolen medals, victories and podiums from him over the years. I don't sense too much bitterness, but this doesn't change the facts.

Like BullsFan22, he sees the Russians as "victims", but perhaps in a different way.

https://www.cbc.ca/playersvoice/entry/now-is-the-right-time

For me, there is a difference between doping cases like Landis, or Max Hauke, and the generalized, systemic doping the Russians were caught in after the Sochi Games. Hauke and Landis made individual choices to dope and I have no sympathy for them. Ironically, because Russia has probably stolen the most medals in the last decade, I see their athletes as victims.

Talking with my former teammate Ivan Babikov, who is Russian by birth, I learned that athletes in Russia have very little freedom. Theirs is an almost totalitarian sports system, rife with anti-Western propaganda. They are made to understand that they have to cheat because all the other countries do it. Resistance may mean expulsion from the national team, and precarious consequences.