Doping in XC skiing

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, China is an authoritarian country and they have got a lot of money, which means they are going to use all possible means to reach success in the 2022 Olympics. No stone will be unturned. The only limiting factor is that they are starting out so late that it is difficult to build up the whole skiing culture within a few years.

Fangming Cheng is a bit of a strange one, in that he's 25 and hasn't competed on the international track since December 2015 until this year, but he did manage an IBU Cup top 20 all the way back in 2013. I think they've been working on these Olympics for a while, though. They have some young biathlon prospects, especially the women. Yuanmeng Chu is 20 and has some OK IBU Cup results last year, then won a bunch of the junior races at the Summer Biathlon championships (I know, little value as a yardstick) and started her World Cup journey this year. Fanqi Meng is the biggest talent, I think, she's 21 and won gold in the Individual at the Junior World Championships last season; she also has a number of IBU Cup top 20s and a couple of top 10s too, and won medals at the Youth Olympic Games. In two years' time, they could be pretty useful World Cup talents, such that China would at least have something to work with. If Zhenyu Zhu can develop as well, they'd at least have a pretty solid-looking Mixed Relay.

 

[wansteadimp]

Well, China is an authoritarian country and they have got a lot of money, which means they are going to use all possible means to reach success in the 2022 Olympics. No stone will be unturned. The only limiting factor is that they are starting out so late that it is difficult to build up the whole skiing culture within a few years.

Yeah, history shows us that its only authoritarian countries that dope in the run up to Olympics that they're hosting. /s

 

[roundabout]

Well, China is an authoritarian country and they have got a lot of money, which means they are going to use all possible means to reach success in the 2022 Olympics. No stone will be unturned. The only limiting factor is that they are starting out so late that it is difficult to build up the whole skiing culture within a few years.

They had a pretty decent biathlon team 15-20 years ago (all 3 are World Championship medalists) so something should still be in place

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_Shumei

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Ribo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xianying

 

[BullsFan22]

Interesting how Olsbu-Roiseland decided not to race the upcoming WC races. She cites ‘tiredness’ as the reason. She certainly didn’t look tired in the last lap of the relay the other day...

 

[zarnack]

They had a pretty decent biathlon team 15-20 years ago (all 3 are World Championship medalists) so something should still be in place

I think biathlon is the most realistic traditional ski sport (excluding X sports and stuff like that) they are going to find success in. As you mention, they have already been there.

XC is harder. Maybe in sprints, but I don't see any Chinese taking on Norwegians in distance races. Ski jumping is pretty non-existent in China as well, so that's a tough call. And the same can be said about alpine skiing.

 

[search]

yeah, and to be fair, looking at his 2nd shooting on Sunday (4 mistakes), I guess it's also not too unlikely that he just went full out on the 2nd lap to grab the chance and lead a relay once in his life.

 

[BullsFan22]

Curious how Calle Halfvarsson can be sick so long, skis into the heats in Lenzerheide, then doesn't start the quarterfinal because he felt ill, and now two days later he's just off the podium. What kind of 'sickness' did he have exactly? Is he following in Johan Olsson's footsteps? Be sick for a while, then fight for the podium, and then disappear again?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Bolshunov suddenly flying up the Alpe Cermis, finishing 3rd and dropping Ustiugov feels a bit too good to be true....

 

[BullsFan22]

Yeah this was not what I thought I would see. I was expecting the Krüger and Roethe to blow up the race earlier in the climb and others like Cologna to try and do something. I was expecting Bolshunov and Klaebo to struggle. Klaebo did struggle, eventually. Bolshunov didn't, he did the opposite. The mass start and the team tactics really helped out Bolshunov, as Spitsov, I felt, could have and should have gone with the two Norwegians, but he was likely advised to stay and help out the two leaders as long as possible. Ustiugov didn't look too bad, tbh, he looked more or less the same as last year on the climb, but Bolshunov was a completely different force this time on Alpe Cermis. Last season and two seasons ago, he was already struggling before the really steep pitches came, and he barely made it across the line. I know the hard, and fast conditions played a role, as did team tactics and drafting, but yeah I expected him to struggle. Not as much as last year, but still struggle to hold off Ustiugov.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The format and the conditions surely helped him, but it still feels a bit like when Poltoranin suddenly did a great Alpe Cermis ascent out of the blue.

 

[BullsFan22]

Don't remember which year that was that Poltoranin skied up the Alpe so well, but a race that was really suspicious to me was the 50km in Korea. Poltoranin blew up, from skiing with Niskanen to ending in what was it, 15, 16th place. Exactly a year later, he is caught up in a doping ring. I heard he confessed to having worked with Schmidt and doped, but even without the events of last year, I would have wondered at how Niskanen just drove away like that. Sure, Niskanen didn't change his skis when everyone else did earlier, and Bolshunov catching him was partly due to having a fresh pair of skis, but nobody else went with the pace. Niskanen was driving hard from the point he went into the lead. I question the results of both men in that race. The big gap to the chasing pack was due in part to cat-and-mouse tactics of the chasers when they realized it was hopeless to try to catch the two (and before Poltoranin blew up, three) men up front. Bolshunov skied away from the pack to catch Poltoranin, who was fading by then, and Niskanen, who was still looking very strong, just was on less than fresh skis.

Going back to today, yeah, from the camera angles I thought it was Melnichenko up there skiing with Ustiugov, and that would have been less surprising, he is a smaller, lighter skier that skis technically very well, had the third fastest time in last year's final stage and who I thought would be, along with Spitsov, the Russian(s) who could challenge the two Norwegians, but definitely the team tactics prevented him from doing that, IMO.

 

[frenchfry]

Bolshunov suddenly flying up the Alpe Cermis, finishing 3rd and dropping Ustiugov feels a bit too good to be true....

Not really that surprising...

At 23 Bolshunov has been at the pointy end of virtually every WC race for the past 3 years. Even Klaebo has the decency to crack once in a while.

Russian cross-country success led by doping-tainted coach

They are hailed as the vanguard of a new generation of clean Russian cross-country skiers. All are under the age of 23 and all are coached by a man who was once suspended for doping offenses

eu.usatoday.com

 

[Mayomaniac]

Not really that surprising...

At 23 Bolshunov has been at the pointy end of virtually every WC race for the past 3 years. Even Klaebo has the decency to crack once in a while.

Russian cross-country success led by doping-tainted coach

They are hailed as the vanguard of a new generation of clean Russian cross-country skiers. All are under the age of 23 and all are coached by a man who was once suspended for doping offenses

eu.usatoday.com

Bolshunov has a history of being pretty bad on the Alpe Cermis and loosing podium spots, so him finishing 3rd is unexpected.

 

[BullsFan22]

I just watched the men's race again, and because they widened the climb, they had to not make a lot of the curves so steep as year's before. There were less switchbacks today than before, and that helps bigger guys like Bolshunov. I know the camera makes it seem like it's less steep than it actually is, but really they did make the hill easier in terms of less turns and factor in the conditions and format, it favored Bolshunov, though not so much that he'd ski away from Ustiugov, Spitsov, Cologna and finish so close to Roethe and Krüger. I also wonder why the two Norwegians didn't go from the bottom of the climb. They were right up there amongst the leaders, the weren't far behind.

 

[Gotland]

Curious how Calle Halfvarsson can be sick so long, skis into the heats in Lenzerheide, then doesn't start the quarterfinal because he felt ill, and now two days later he's just off the podium. What kind of 'sickness' did he have exactly? Is he following in Johan Olsson's footsteps? Be sick for a while, then fight for the podium, and then disappear again?

He had an light injury in the arm.

"The Swede has an arm injury and therefore cannot run the quarterfinals. In connection with the choice of qualifying heat, the Swede took his arm and bent down.

"He feels a tenderness," coach Mattias Nilsson told Sportbladet.

According to the coach, Calle Halfvarsson would receive treatment afterwards, but it did not help which led to the decision to let the Swede renounce the final rounds.

- We have done clinical treatment and do not get it. We take the uncertain before the uncertain, says doctor Jan Wall."

https://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/a/qLrblE/halfvarsson-tvingas-sta-over-sprintfinalen (Swedish)

 

[ppanther92]

Strange things happening in Biathlon (so business as usual kind off). Schempp, Lesser, Landertinger are now among the worst athletes in terms of running time losing literally minutes. Both, Schempp and Landertigner, gave interviews that they had a perfect preperation in the summer. One could speculate if the Erfurt bust did cut their supply.

Meanwhile the Russians are super funny to watch. Either completely off as team, or rather fast. Alternates almost weekly.

 

[Discgear]

Use your imagination. How would a scenario like this be conceived among the ski fans?

After showing horrendous form in the two initial races, Ustiugov get's a permission from FIS, against the regulations, to leave the SkiTour for two days and fly home to Russia to check a claimed finger injury. After he returns, he totally dominates the most demanding "sprint" ever held, by literally dancing up the hill and mocking his competitors when he in turtle speed crosses the goal line.

Of course this scenario did not take place, cool down. But change Ustiugovs name to one of the Norwegian exceptionals and you have a synposis of what took place the last days.

 

[ppanther92]

Use your imagination. How would a scenario like this be conceived among the ski fans?

After showing horrendous form in the two initial races, Ustiugov get's a permission from FIS, against the regulations, to leave the SkiTour for two days and fly home to Russia to check a claimed finger injury. After he returns, he totally dominates the most demanding "sprint" ever held, by literally dancing up the hill and mocking his competitors when he in turtle speed crosses the goal line.

Of course this scenario did not take place, cool down. But change Ustiugovs name to one of the Norwegian exceptionals and you have a synposis of what took place the last days.

True but I at least hope some FIS guy went with him.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Strange things happening in Biathlon (so business as usual kind off). Schempp, Lesser, Landertinger are now among the worst athletes in terms of running time losing literally minutes. Both, Schempp and Landertigner, gave interviews that they had a perfect preperation in the summer. One could speculate if the Erfurt bust did cut their supply.

Meanwhile the Russians are super funny to watch. Either completely off as team, or rather fast. Alternates almost weekly.

Skiing wise Landertinger hasn't been the same since his back problems and disc surgery 2 years ago.

 

[BullsFan22]

The Germans are not really figuring in with the fastest skiers, apart from Herrmann, which is to be expected of her. Doll is still their fastest guy, but they are also not shooting well, especially in late stages of these races.

Really only Landertinger is performing well. Leitner is young and he's done quite well.

I do think that perhaps the Erfurt/Schmidt lab(s) getting shut down last year have something to do with, but I'd rather see all the names of Schmidt's clients, no matter if they are Austrian or German or wherever else they may be from. If it's a small list, show it. If it's a long list, show it as well. There needs to be consistency in the anti-doping work. They also need to do retests of Seefeld.

 

[BullsFan22]

Use your imagination. How would a scenario like this be conceived among the ski fans?

After showing horrendous form in the two initial races, Ustiugov get's a permission from FIS, against the regulations, to leave the SkiTour for two days and fly home to Russia to check a claimed finger injury. After he returns, he totally dominates the most demanding "sprint" ever held, by literally dancing up the hill and mocking his competitors when he in turtle speed crosses the goal line.

Of course this scenario did not take place, cool down. But change Ustiugovs name to one of the Norwegian exceptionals and you have a synposis of what took place the last days.

Ustiugov had a smilar injury with his thumb at the end of October of 2018. He missed the first three weekends of racing and returned mid December in Davos. Klaebo, from what I read, injured his finger on February 3rd (or at least that's when news first broke, so it could also be the 2nd), he missed Falun but decided to go for it in the tour. He doesn't look too bothered at the moment. He destroyed everyone in the sprint, jump skating up the steep, long hill and had no trouble hanging with the main group and outsprinting Iversen and others at the finish. The pressure one puts on the fingers can be significant. Either the Norwegian doctors have done some magic on Klaebo or the injured finger isn't as significant as we were all led to believe. He wasn't breathing hard at all in the sprint and as I said, looked easy today. What's the deal?

 

[BullsFan22]

Strange things happening in Biathlon (so business as usual kind off). Schempp, Lesser, Landertinger are now among the worst athletes in terms of running time losing literally minutes. Both, Schempp and Landertigner, gave interviews that they had a perfect preperation in the summer. One could speculate if the Erfurt bust did cut their supply.

Meanwhile the Russians are super funny to watch. Either completely off as team, or rather fast. Alternates almost weekly.

Well the only Russian who is relevant at these championships so far is Loginov. Eliseev isn't in the same form that he was in the first period of racing this season and Mironova has fallen almost off the map since her good start to the season. Yurlova-Percht is the only woman, I think, has been their best chance at an individual medal in Antholtz-Anterselva. None of their other athletes are known for their fast skiing. If they don't shoot well, they have little to no chance. Mironova is their most talented woman right now, and she can post top 5 ski times, but her shooting has been poor and her form off. I hear they've overtrained her and others earlier.

They also aren't using youngsters like Khalili and Reztsova, so the coaches have heard a lot of stick, a lot of criticism for having put people like Garannichev into the races instead of youngsters like Khalili.

You'd think if Loginov was skiing well and there was doping, the rest of the team would be skiing a lot better. Not saying they aren't doping, just saying that one individual is doing much better than everyone else on the team. Porshnev finished 11th yesterday, earning him a spot in the top 30 for the mass start, which is a great result for him. Likewise Garannichev skied well enough to finish in 14th, just ahead of Loginov, but with two fewer misses, so he was more or less two minutes behind Loginov in ski speed, which is significant. Garannichev was never the fastest guy and never the best shooter, but just solid.

Hard to believe that they'd only dope Loginov, when the others need it more.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Today there was a NAS raid in Loginov's Hotel, the Carabinieri serched in his Hotel room for 1 hour and a half. He and his personal coach were the target of the raid.

 

[BullsFan22]

Due to accreditation. Apparently they don’t need a warrant, they didn’t tell Loginov or any of the Russians what it was for until later on. It's pretty pathetic that a mob full of police can raid your room(s) at 6 in the morning simply because of a coaches accreditation.

Seems to me like it was done deliberately to stress the Loginov and the Russians out.

'anti' doping, what a joke.

 

[frenchfry]

Due to accreditation. Apparently they don’t need a warrant, they didn’t tell Loginov or any of the Russians what it was for until later on. It's pretty pathetic that a mob full of police can raid your room(s) at 6 in the morning simply because of a coaches accreditation.

Seems to me like it was done deliberately to stress the Loginov and the Russians out.

'anti' doping, what a joke.

The general feeling appears to be that Loginov was treated unfairly - no wait the exact opposite is true! He is a totally unrepenting doper that seems to be unanimously disliked (except by yourself).

To summarise the basis of the raid as a simple "accreditation" problem is simplistic and likely only a small part of the real justification. Time will tell. And why would Loginov's coach be using someone elses's accreditation if that is the case?