Doping in XC skiing

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neineinei

neineinei

May 19, 2010
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Armchaircyclist said:
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I guess you did not read the whole thing. In the end they mention that these are not elite athletes. We're talking about doping to beat your neighbour, or win your age-group here. How sad is that ?
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It doesn't say that the 3 steroid cases reported to the police are not elite athletes. It says that the 3 cases reported to ADN by the Police are not elite athletes.

For some other reason ADN thought those 3 cases with steroid positives are more serious than the other steroid positives they have gotten since doping was criminalized. What makes one steroid case more serious than the other? Positive for multiple steroids? Through the roof values? Are some steroids worse than others? Or is it worse that an athlete at a high level dopes than one at a low level, or vice versa?
 
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peloton

Mar 12, 2009
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kosmonaut said:
Looks like someone has prepared well.

In Davos before xmas she was 56 secs behind Bj?rgen on the same distance. Today 36 in front.
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She went off like a bat out of hell, was sure she'd fade at some point.

Well prepared indeed.
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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Kokoso said:
Kalla beat Norewgian - hence she's doper. Lol.
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lol. yet, when looking at performance flags, i like to take a more analytical, longer view before jumping...

1. did kalla surprise every one today and by how much ? she certainly did and her advantage margin was around 5% over a runner-up legend of the sport that usually wins the discipline. 5% is quite significant, particularly, when it is over bjoergen who usually puts 5-10% almost over all non-norwegians.

2. did kalla have a ski prep advantage ? it does not look that way, though, post race she said the skis felt great. i say no, b/c if the swedes did have superior skis as a team, some other swedish girls would be closer. yet they were at least 1.5 min back. Also, today was not the weather that would typically be hard to figure - firmly below zero..

3. how did her gap to the runner up behave ? it was consistently increasing to max by the finish. a sign of her clearly superior aerobic state over EVERYONE.

4. did the course today particularly favour kalla ? Nope, at 60 kg she is not johaug (47kg)

all above enhance each other as a flag, yet would be consistent with her high altitude advantage if it is the one...then, on the other side are some balancing considerations.

who was practically the only one who could challenge the norge machine before in SKATING ? yep, only kalla. did she recently show us a sample of what we saw today ? yep, in sochi. is kalla a nobody like duerr suddenly bursting into the elites. no, by any stretch of anyone's imagination.

all i am saying is that an eyebrow shall be raise, but not more. what we saw today is consistent with someone being ahead in conditioning with still 1 weak to falun. it is quite possible that the norwegian gals form is scheduled to max a tad later...then, if kalla in falun will have shown no edge we saw today, then it was a NOTHING

if she does - i'd raise a second brow.
 
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Tyler'sTwin

Mar 4, 2010
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python said:
1. did kalla surprise every one today and by how much ? she certainly did and her advantage margin was around 5% over a runner-up legend of the sport that usually wins the discipline. 5% is quite significant, particularly, when it is over bjoergen who usually puts 5-10% almost over all non-norwegians.
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2.6% faster than Bjorgen, 3.8% Johaug, 4.3% Weng.

python said:
2. did kalla have a ski prep advantage ? it does not look that way, though, post race she said the skis felt great. i say no, b/c if the swedes did have superior skis as a team, some other swedish girls would be closer. yet they were at least 1.5 min back. Also, today was not the weather that would typically be hard to figure - firmly below zero..
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Top norges vs lesser swedes:

BJOERGEN Marit 1980 NOR 24:02.5
JOHAUG Therese 1988 NOR 24:19.7 +17.2
WENG Heidi 1991 NOR 24:27.4 +24.9
BLECKUR Sofia 1984 SWE 24:51.7 +49.2
RYDQVIST Maria 1983 SWE 25:00.5 +58
WIKEN Emma 1989 SWE 25:08.2 +1:05.7
ANDERSSON Ebba 1997(!) SWE 25:13.6 +1:11.1
 
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Tyler'sTwin

Mar 4, 2010
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Tyler'sTwin said:
2.6% faster than Bjorgen, 3.8% Johaug, 4.3% Weng.
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Johaugs early season blow-outs:

Ruka - 10 km C, 30.11.2014

JOHAUG Therese 1988 NOR 25:47.2
BJOERGEN Marit 1980 NOR 26:29.4 +2.7%
KALLA Charlotte 1987 SWE 26:31.3 +2.8%

Davos - 10 km C, 13.12.2014

JOHAUG Therese 1988 NOR 28:30.8
BJOERGEN Marit 1980 NOR 29:13.3 +2.5%
NISKANEN Kerttu 1988 FIN 29:29.3 +3.4%
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
2.6% faster than Bjorgen, 3.8% Johaug, 4.3% Weng.



Top norges vs lesser swedes:

BJOERGEN Marit 1980 NOR 24:02.5
JOHAUG Therese 1988 NOR 24:19.7 +17.2
WENG Heidi 1991 NOR 24:27.4 +24.9
BLECKUR Sofia 1984 SWE 24:51.7 +49.2
RYDQVIST Maria 1983 SWE 25:00.5 +58
WIKEN Emma 1989 SWE 25:08.2 +1:05.7
ANDERSSON Ebba 1997(!) SWE 25:13.6 +1:11.1
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i made those observations/points from memory following just watching the race..i was having in mind the qualitative trends that i could recall.

while your corrections are a factual record, they don't appear to change my general conclusions, some even enhance them. kalla's aerobic advantage being less drastic fits into an earlier aeronic altitude peaking even better than i assumed. there also, appears no objective evidence that kalla's skis were being rockets today thus keeping the raised eyebrow...

we just need to see what she can show in one week. if, as i said, she keeps up the trend or even increases the gaps, then certainly a suspicion will be warranted. if she levels off, or loses the edge, then we all are overreacting today.

of course, the fis testers, if they are not too distracted by hunting down their usual russian pray, will have to calculate kalla's off-score today and compare it to her historic blood passport trends. i wish it was a known...
 
neineinei

neineinei

May 19, 2010
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Biathlon:

Sergei Tarasov talks about the blood doping incident at the Albertville games (1992). They had prepared blood transfusions for the team, but something was wrong, either the blood hadn't been kept at the right temperature or he got someone else's blood, and he became very, very ill.

He says something similar had happened to a skater, who died.

http://www.sport-express.ru/fridays_talking/reviews/53546/ (Russian)
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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if one was to continue googling the tarasov interview above, some of the other info sound remarkable. he states 3 things that strongly deviate from the accepted wisdom:

1. he personally never doped except that time he almost died
2. he vouched that his team was also always clean until that time in 1992 they decided on 4 blood transfusions ('we did not do it in biathlon')

...and the last thing that jumped at me, sounds as a true shocker for any fan of the sports greatest legend- einar ole bjoerndalen.

3. he said that einar does NOT posses 'outstanding functional abilities' (perhaps he meant a mediocre engine). though the google mumbled it as 15 minutes, tarasov based the observation on oeb regularly losing to him 1.5 over 20 km. said einar won so much b/c he's a robot who meticulously planned every step. called einar a 'pro the sport has never seen since or after'.

..a note on the credibility of the source. i personally never heard of tarasov. the interview was dedicated to his 50th bd. the information about his clinical death was voluntary. he did not have to answer any questions about doping. yet, he did whilst naming the doping doctor and providing enough detail to figure out the names of the dope killed ice skater and the 3 teammates scared off of a transfusion after he almost died.
 
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TomasC

Apr 26, 2010
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According to the interview, he also tried to make some German biathletes (Ricco Gross, Frank Luck, Mark Kirchner) drunk on the eve of a 20km race while staying sober himself to have better chances to win. The drinking part he succeeded in but the next day the race was won by Pavel Muslimov followed by all the (supposedly) drunk Germans while Tarasov ended 25th :)
 
neineinei

neineinei

May 19, 2010
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There was lots of talk about the botched blood transfusion at the time in the Olympic village. The Russians were running to the pharmacy and eventually he ended up in the hospital. Impossible to hide. They came up with a mushroom story, which is a plausible explanation for kidney failure, but a botched blood transfusion is of course more plausible to anyone in the Olympic village in 1992.

It was even written about in the press at the time:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...QYhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dHYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3754,1764754

The story was brought up again in the press after he won gold at Lillehammer two years later:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...1IPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iIYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5395,4445979
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...mFGAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LekMAAAAIBAJ&pg=5482,5054270

They were also speculating about EPO.
 
K

Kokoso

Apr 22, 2012
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kingjr said:
OEB himself has said something similar in the past.
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That's surprising considering how he was literally flying in the past. I remember him being able to pull huge chunks of time on anybody. Are others so lazy or what?
 
K

kosmonaut

Feb 15, 2015
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Kokoso said:
That's surprising considering how he was literally flying in the past. I remember him being able to pull huge chunks of time on anybody. Are others so lazy or what?
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He, with Elofsson, were the ones trying to follow Muhlegg in that infamous 30k in 2002. If you remove known dopers from the result list, he'll sit with a bronze. Mediocre engine much?
 
K

Kokoso

Apr 22, 2012
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kosmonaut said:
He, with Elofsson, were the ones trying to follow Muhlegg in that infamous 30k in 2002. If you remove known dopers from the result list, he'll sit with a bronze. Mediocre engine much?
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Also it's really hard to believe that there were no other meticulous biathletes, considering nature of profi sport and probable character of many top athletes. I believe there should be more of them then one per time.
 
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