Re: Re:
What are you on about? You are reading things into my post that I haven't said.BullsFan22 said:
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Re: Re:
You are saying how the 'majority of them looks really smooth on skis.' Meaning that most of them have good technique, meaning that that is one of the big reasons they have great success. I simply put out a few names that also look good on skis, but don't have the success, meaning that technique isn't the only factor that makes xc skiers perform well.
kingjr said:
You are saying how the 'majority of them looks really smooth on skis.' Meaning that most of them have good technique, meaning that that is one of the big reasons they have great success. I simply put out a few names that also look good on skis, but don't have the success, meaning that technique isn't the only factor that makes xc skiers perform well.
Re:
A few random items on the Vo2MAX value and its significance:
1) If we are to believe that artificially elevating hematocrit correspondingly increases Vo2MAX significantly, then there most likely would have been INseason figures for females in the excess of 80 ml/kg/min, because there are reports of women having 75 ml/kg/min figures from the pre-rEPO era from early 1970s. In their 1967 working paper, Swedish physiologists Saltin and Åstrand refer to a source mentioning that one Russian female skier had her figure comparable even in the early 1960s ("The highest value ever found in the Russian female cross-country team is 74 ml/kg X min (4.44 liters/min) on A. Gusakova"). (Saltin, B; Astrand PO: Maximal oxygen uptake in athletes, J Appl Physiol. 1967 Sep;23(3):353-8.)
2) Everyone agrees that the relative Vo2MAX figure isn't the end of the story from performance viewpoint, but there has also been research pointing out that the focus on the relative Vo2MAX figure understates the "true" capability of people with high absolute aerobic capability, ie. the figure systematically underpredicts the performance of competitors with large body dimensions. I've seen some Finnish researchers pointing to this phenomenom and a 1991 report by Frank Ingjer on the Norwegian skiers concluded the following:
This instantly brings into mind the case of the Finnish XC-skier Juha Mieto. I have a copy of the report of the five Finnish XC-skiers tested in 1973 at the Gymnastik och Idrottshögskolan (GIH) in Sweden, where Swedish researchers tested a group of Finnish athletes (below is late Bengt Saltin with Mieto) at the end of the 1972-1973 season (2 March, 1973).
His Vo2MAX figure was reported as 7.40 l/min which was and could still be the absolute world record, but because his weight was 96 kg, his relative figure was "only" 76.9 ml/kg/min, a mediocrish figure for an olympic podium quality athlete, who won the unofficial XC World Cup twice (1975-76, 1979-80).
In the end, making reliable conclusions about Vo2MAX figures and their relation to performance is always difficult due to chronic absense of reliable INseason data from athletes and zero incentives for athletes to provide them when they have used doping methods affecting that variable. Only a total idiot would take RBC infusions, take the treadmill test and voluntarily publish the results.
A few random items on the Vo2MAX value and its significance:
1) If we are to believe that artificially elevating hematocrit correspondingly increases Vo2MAX significantly, then there most likely would have been INseason figures for females in the excess of 80 ml/kg/min, because there are reports of women having 75 ml/kg/min figures from the pre-rEPO era from early 1970s. In their 1967 working paper, Swedish physiologists Saltin and Åstrand refer to a source mentioning that one Russian female skier had her figure comparable even in the early 1960s ("The highest value ever found in the Russian female cross-country team is 74 ml/kg X min (4.44 liters/min) on A. Gusakova"). (Saltin, B; Astrand PO: Maximal oxygen uptake in athletes, J Appl Physiol. 1967 Sep;23(3):353-8.)
2) Everyone agrees that the relative Vo2MAX figure isn't the end of the story from performance viewpoint, but there has also been research pointing out that the focus on the relative Vo2MAX figure understates the "true" capability of people with high absolute aerobic capability, ie. the figure systematically underpredicts the performance of competitors with large body dimensions. I've seen some Finnish researchers pointing to this phenomenom and a 1991 report by Frank Ingjer on the Norwegian skiers concluded the following:
.
This instantly brings into mind the case of the Finnish XC-skier Juha Mieto. I have a copy of the report of the five Finnish XC-skiers tested in 1973 at the Gymnastik och Idrottshögskolan (GIH) in Sweden, where Swedish researchers tested a group of Finnish athletes (below is late Bengt Saltin with Mieto) at the end of the 1972-1973 season (2 March, 1973).
His Vo2MAX figure was reported as 7.40 l/min which was and could still be the absolute world record, but because his weight was 96 kg, his relative figure was "only" 76.9 ml/kg/min, a mediocrish figure for an olympic podium quality athlete, who won the unofficial XC World Cup twice (1975-76, 1979-80).
In the end, making reliable conclusions about Vo2MAX figures and their relation to performance is always difficult due to chronic absense of reliable INseason data from athletes and zero incentives for athletes to provide them when they have used doping methods affecting that variable. Only a total idiot would take RBC infusions, take the treadmill test and voluntarily publish the results.
Re: Re:
Maybe 'looking smooth on skis' means something totally different to me. Semantics, perhaps.
kingjr said:
Maybe 'looking smooth on skis' means something totally different to me. Semantics, perhaps.
Re:
Clean Cologna and dirty Sasha. What a farce.
You are clearly not following XC skiing. Cologna won 2 golds over all russian skiers before 50k and was in a leading group before breaking the ski. If not the accident he would be on podium with a high probability.Oude Geuze said:
Clean Cologna and dirty Sasha. What a farce.
Re: Re:
I hate to bring in Cologna's name into doping talks, but his association with Marc Biver, former general director at Astana, was also Tony Rominger's mentor, is first suspect. Also Cologna's recovery after that ankle injury he sustained in late October/early November (don't know the exact date, but it was close to the opening races...) was almost miraculous. He missed the first two months of the racing season and his first world cup race was in Toblach where he finished 2nd to Legkov. He then crushes the 30km skiathlon, beating all the doped Russians of course, and was arguably more impressive in the 15km classic, catching Johan Olsson, who always seems to peak for the big races (a suspect skier as well, in my honest opinion).
In the sprint he fell, twice, in his quarterfinal. That was probably the last time he was gonna be a contender in a major championship sprint, and I think he would have made it out of that heat, it wasn't the strongest. He only had Pellegrino to deal with. Who knows what would have happened had he made it through.
The 50km, well, like Rider said he had all the chances to medal and possibly win. The camera didn't catch who broke his ski, but his chances evaporated right away, and it happened 100-150 meters before the long climb. He was easily marking everyone and I think he would have gotten at least bronze. The guy could have left Sochi with three golds after missing virtually the entire season (he didn't race anything after Sochi). That's quite remarkable, if you ask me. Also, Hellner was sick, and he didn't race, but was in excellent form. Silver in the skiathlon, made the final of the sprint, won gold with the relay....He would have been a top contender for a medal as well. The other top guys kind of choked, except Sundby. So no, it's not a shock that the Russians won medals in the event.
Rider said:
I hate to bring in Cologna's name into doping talks, but his association with Marc Biver, former general director at Astana, was also Tony Rominger's mentor, is first suspect. Also Cologna's recovery after that ankle injury he sustained in late October/early November (don't know the exact date, but it was close to the opening races...) was almost miraculous. He missed the first two months of the racing season and his first world cup race was in Toblach where he finished 2nd to Legkov. He then crushes the 30km skiathlon, beating all the doped Russians of course, and was arguably more impressive in the 15km classic, catching Johan Olsson, who always seems to peak for the big races (a suspect skier as well, in my honest opinion).
In the sprint he fell, twice, in his quarterfinal. That was probably the last time he was gonna be a contender in a major championship sprint, and I think he would have made it out of that heat, it wasn't the strongest. He only had Pellegrino to deal with. Who knows what would have happened had he made it through.
The 50km, well, like Rider said he had all the chances to medal and possibly win. The camera didn't catch who broke his ski, but his chances evaporated right away, and it happened 100-150 meters before the long climb. He was easily marking everyone and I think he would have gotten at least bronze. The guy could have left Sochi with three golds after missing virtually the entire season (he didn't race anything after Sochi). That's quite remarkable, if you ask me. Also, Hellner was sick, and he didn't race, but was in excellent form. Silver in the skiathlon, made the final of the sprint, won gold with the relay....He would have been a top contender for a medal as well. The other top guys kind of choked, except Sundby. So no, it's not a shock that the Russians won medals in the event.
why no one mentioned the KING of smoothness that should hurt ANY experienced eye - someone named petter...
to be clear, a good, efficient technique is essential to a success in xc skiing. yet, excessive smoothness may actually betray an INefficient technique under certain conditions. i will admit that sundby's technique in both styles had undergone a visible change since when he was a nobody...the rest of the norges are a mixed bag...
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fixed typos
to be clear, a good, efficient technique is essential to a success in xc skiing. yet, excessive smoothness may actually betray an INefficient technique under certain conditions. i will admit that sundby's technique in both styles had undergone a visible change since when he was a nobody...the rest of the norges are a mixed bag...
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fixed typos
Re:
This was a long time ago but when one of my brothers studied to become a doctor in the early to mid-nineties there where fellow students that would place in the top 10-15 in national championships on not much training. Of course these people had put in the required training in the years prior to becoming full-time students but still, you got the feeling that behind the top 5-10 there wasn't much depth. There is probably a bit more now, plus a change towards greater professionalism amongst the people involved, but perhaps not all that much.Cloxxki said:
Four more Russians out, Alexej Petuchov, Jevgenija Sjapovalova, Maxim Vylegzjanin and Julia Ivanova. The whole Sochi olympics was a Russian scam it seems. Always liked Vylegzjanin, him being a cop and skier was cool, plus he was amongst the first to beat Northug in sprint. Sundby climbing to silver in the 50k, will he reach gold? Hopefully not.
A little technique vs metabolic work capacity anecdote:
I used to train with the Norwegian national champion U16/17? crit champion, he left me for dead on inclines while whistling, hands on his back. Same with running. Later in the season we went skiing and I beat him soundly over 30k. Skiing is like swimming, it takes an awful lot of work from very early age to get good, even if you’re a genetic anaerobic monster.
A little technique vs metabolic work capacity anecdote:
I used to train with the Norwegian national champion U16/17? crit champion, he left me for dead on inclines while whistling, hands on his back. Same with running. Later in the season we went skiing and I beat him soundly over 30k. Skiing is like swimming, it takes an awful lot of work from very early age to get good, even if you’re a genetic anaerobic monster.
Re:
They haven't proven anything nor come out with anything new. It's all from one man, Rodchenkov. Where was the security there? Where's Chernousov? He and Legkov were training partners for years, spending a lot of time in Switzerland, Germany, Italy and Austria. What, they gave drugs to Legkov and not Chernousov?
Oude Geuze said:
They haven't proven anything nor come out with anything new. It's all from one man, Rodchenkov. Where was the security there? Where's Chernousov? He and Legkov were training partners for years, spending a lot of time in Switzerland, Germany, Italy and Austria. What, they gave drugs to Legkov and not Chernousov?
Probably they were all under the state doping system and racing illegaly. But of course, there might not be sufficient evidence to ban everyone and some may actually be clean, just does not seem likely at this point.
Re:
Anyway you are not right, in Czech republic there xc skier is beating track runners too.
Well, that just might mean they have bad track athletes.Oude Geuze said:
Anyway you are not right, in Czech republic there xc skier is beating track runners too.
ummm. this could get even more interesting... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/sports/olympics/russia-doping-winter-olympics.html?module=WatchingPortal®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=1&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F11%2F10%2Fsports%2Folympics%2Frussia-doping-winter-olympics.html&eventName=Watching-article-click
(for BullsFan: of course most other countries were doing the same thing)
(for BullsFan: of course most other countries were doing the same thing)
Re: Re:
Yeah, they’re pretty bad, because the good athletes are skiers.
Czech Republic skier won the national championship in track and field? Which skier, which event? Link? Not that I don’t believe you, but they’re not exactly dominating skiing lately, Lukas Bauer still the best at 39 or something.
Kokoso said:
Yeah, they’re pretty bad, because the good athletes are skiers.
Czech Republic skier won the national championship in track and field? Which skier, which event? Link? Not that I don’t believe you, but they’re not exactly dominating skiing lately, Lukas Bauer still the best at 39 or something.
Re: Re:
"Yeah, they’re pretty bad, because the good athletes are skiers." Well, if runners are bad, what exactly did you want to say by that?
Eva Vrabcová - Nývltová.Oude Geuze said:
"Yeah, they’re pretty bad, because the good athletes are skiers." Well, if runners are bad, what exactly did you want to say by that?
https://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/vintersport/russisk-landslagstrener-antyder-at-ol-mester-har-doping-sladret-paa-kompisene/a/24184516/
now one of their present national team coaches (!) accused chernusov of being an anonymous informant for wada
i can fully imagine the rodchenkov's drive (including some personal experience with the scoundrel) but chernusov ? :surprised:
even if one makes an allowance for him selfishly wanting the olympic gold AFTER vyleg and lego were DQ-ed, it does not jive with several considerations. like if it was a team-wide doping, cherno as one of their strongest assets would have also been 'found'. or it does not connect with how he and vyleg lifted lego into the air soon after alex won the sochi gold. besides, him and lego were known to have a close personal friendship before and particularly during their work with reto and isabel.
but nowadays one cant be sure in anything. particularly b/c cherno fits a different mold from the rest of their team. he is married to a swiss, speaks fluent english and solid german, does not live in russia and even looks more like a sicilian with his dark complexion than a typical blue-eyed russian ....ratting or not, i have a good opinion of cherno as an athlete and a person.
now one of their present national team coaches (!) accused chernusov of being an anonymous informant for wada
i can fully imagine the rodchenkov's drive (including some personal experience with the scoundrel) but chernusov ? :surprised:
even if one makes an allowance for him selfishly wanting the olympic gold AFTER vyleg and lego were DQ-ed, it does not jive with several considerations. like if it was a team-wide doping, cherno as one of their strongest assets would have also been 'found'. or it does not connect with how he and vyleg lifted lego into the air soon after alex won the sochi gold. besides, him and lego were known to have a close personal friendship before and particularly during their work with reto and isabel.
but nowadays one cant be sure in anything. particularly b/c cherno fits a different mold from the rest of their team. he is married to a swiss, speaks fluent english and solid german, does not live in russia and even looks more like a sicilian with his dark complexion than a typical blue-eyed russian ....ratting or not, i have a good opinion of cherno as an athlete and a person.
Re:
Rodchenkov is a scoundrel, of that there is no doubt. I think he's been planning this on for a while, otherwise he wouldn't have moved to the States. Interesting how he says that organized doping started in 2011 and ended in 2015...In 2011 he moved to the states, in 2015 he officially moved out of Russia and he was in contact with other scoundrels like McLaren and Seppelt all that time. I mean, I can see McLaren's involvement, he is a lawyer working for WADA, and most of WADA's high ranking officials are hellbent on preventing Russia competing in the Olympics. Seppelt is a journalist with an agenda. Rodchenkov had beef with others within Russia. Him saying whatever McLaren, Seppelt, Tygart, etc want to hear is predictable.
As far as Chernousov is concerned, I agree that I don't see him as an 'informant,' though I guess there are rumblings about potential informants giving WADA information. I don't see Ilia as a person that would give away anything, and what was there to give away? In the latest IOC decision, nothing new or concrete was laid out. They didn't say anything, only that Legkov, Vylegzhanin, etc were 'guilty' of doping. They don't actually have proof, it's all based on one scoundrel's story. One man talks, and WADA, IOC and FIS believe him, without fact checking, other witnesses, etc. Impressive. No wonder jails (particularly in the US) are overfilled and innocent individuals put behind bars, it's because the judiciary system is becoming a joke. Is it now 'guilty until proven innocent?'
And Chernousov was training with Legkov since 2010. Same training plans, same coaches (foreigners), traveling to the same venues, outside of the Russian national team to Switzerland, Norway, Italy, Germany, Austria...How is Chernousov not named and Legkov is? Is it because he actually is married to a Swiss, lives in Switzerland now? Is that WADA's pre-requisite?
What about other skiers? Ustiugov is not targeted (so far). Did Rodchenkov not think much of him in 2014? If he were to make that list in 2017, would he put Sergey's name on the sheet? I don't see how 'if' there was mass doping, how some doped and some didn't, or some knew of things going on, but others didn't. I don't know, perhaps they didn't see Ustiugov as a medal threat OR they felt he was SO GOOD that he didn't need dope. Either way, it's a joke.
python said:https://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/vintersport/russisk-landslagstrener-antyder-at-ol-mester-har-doping-sladret-paa-kompisene/a/24184516/
now one of their present national team coaches (!) accused chernusov of being an anonymous informant for wada
i can fully imagine the rodchenkov's drive (including some personal experience with the scoundrel) but chernusov ? :surprised:
even if one makes an allowance for him selfishly wanting the olympic gold AFTER vyleg and lego were DQ-ed, it does not jive with several considerations. like if it was a team-wide doping, cherno as one of their strongest assets would have also been 'found'. or it does not connect with how he and vyleg lifted lego into the air soon after alex won the sochi gold. besides, him and lego were known to have a close personal friendship before and particularly during their work with reto and isabel.
but nowadays one cant be sure in anything. particularly b/c cherno fits a different mold from the rest of their team. he is married to a swiss, speaks fluent english and solid german, does not live in russia and even looks more like a sicilian with his dark complexion than a typical blue-eyed russian ....ratting or not, i have a good opinion of cherno as an athlete and a person.
Rodchenkov is a scoundrel, of that there is no doubt. I think he's been planning this on for a while, otherwise he wouldn't have moved to the States. Interesting how he says that organized doping started in 2011 and ended in 2015...In 2011 he moved to the states, in 2015 he officially moved out of Russia and he was in contact with other scoundrels like McLaren and Seppelt all that time. I mean, I can see McLaren's involvement, he is a lawyer working for WADA, and most of WADA's high ranking officials are hellbent on preventing Russia competing in the Olympics. Seppelt is a journalist with an agenda. Rodchenkov had beef with others within Russia. Him saying whatever McLaren, Seppelt, Tygart, etc want to hear is predictable.
As far as Chernousov is concerned, I agree that I don't see him as an 'informant,' though I guess there are rumblings about potential informants giving WADA information. I don't see Ilia as a person that would give away anything, and what was there to give away? In the latest IOC decision, nothing new or concrete was laid out. They didn't say anything, only that Legkov, Vylegzhanin, etc were 'guilty' of doping. They don't actually have proof, it's all based on one scoundrel's story. One man talks, and WADA, IOC and FIS believe him, without fact checking, other witnesses, etc. Impressive. No wonder jails (particularly in the US) are overfilled and innocent individuals put behind bars, it's because the judiciary system is becoming a joke. Is it now 'guilty until proven innocent?'
And Chernousov was training with Legkov since 2010. Same training plans, same coaches (foreigners), traveling to the same venues, outside of the Russian national team to Switzerland, Norway, Italy, Germany, Austria...How is Chernousov not named and Legkov is? Is it because he actually is married to a Swiss, lives in Switzerland now? Is that WADA's pre-requisite?
What about other skiers? Ustiugov is not targeted (so far). Did Rodchenkov not think much of him in 2014? If he were to make that list in 2017, would he put Sergey's name on the sheet? I don't see how 'if' there was mass doping, how some doped and some didn't, or some knew of things going on, but others didn't. I don't know, perhaps they didn't see Ustiugov as a medal threat OR they felt he was SO GOOD that he didn't need dope. Either way, it's a joke.
Re: Re:
Trolling or serious? The good athletes are skiers, the next best are track and field, hence, the skiers sometimes win track and field with little specialized training. I think that’s quite clear?
I couldn’t find much about Eva Vrabcová-Nývltová other than the fact that she is a b-tier skier and a marathon runner, couldn’t find any national championship wins in either discipline, link?
Kokoso said:
Trolling or serious? The good athletes are skiers, the next best are track and field, hence, the skiers sometimes win track and field with little specialized training. I think that’s quite clear?
I couldn’t find much about Eva Vrabcová-Nývltová other than the fact that she is a b-tier skier and a marathon runner, couldn’t find any national championship wins in either discipline, link?
Funny how the Russians are afforded such credulity here, the most infamous and documented cheaters in the world since the 60’s. Meanwhile, any other country would be absolutely thrashed with similar accusations. I realize that supporting a minority narrative is the edgy choice, but there’s no reason to protect a corrupt system.
does anyone here remember the absolute impenetrable secrecy around the sundby doping case ?
he was allowed destroying the word's best, wracking up points, prizes and whatnot while apparently being investigated for doping in absolute secrecy. not a ferking peep leaked !! later, when the entire norwegian spin machine went in an overdrive telling us that noone ever had anything to hide, our poor and humble martin (probably after a major constipation) was quoted that he regretted being so secretive then
why do i dwell on that ? turns out, martin NOW is almost advertising what usually is a private data for any top athlete - his mediocre VO2max (80), his new registered record (83), his exceptional aerobic threshold etc...
check this (norwegian) https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/forbloffende-test-sjokkerte-seg-selv-med-ny-rekord-i-o2-opptak/68878668#_ga=2.138258480.1026949173.1505764777-305668728.1478341269
i mean, as we know from cycling and other endurance sports, such things as Vo2 max, w/kg at AT etc are not an everyday printout. many athletes and their coaches (not just sky and froome) release such private data when they need to manipulate, massage, intimidate or otherwise deflect from some other underlying cause.
not always, but more often than not it is to deflect doping. i just wonder why this not very long ago secretive dude has suddenly become a model of transparency ? reminds me his other transformation from an arrogant *** into a humble mortal after his doping was found out...
he was allowed destroying the word's best, wracking up points, prizes and whatnot while apparently being investigated for doping in absolute secrecy. not a ferking peep leaked !! later, when the entire norwegian spin machine went in an overdrive telling us that noone ever had anything to hide, our poor and humble martin (probably after a major constipation) was quoted that he regretted being so secretive then
why do i dwell on that ? turns out, martin NOW is almost advertising what usually is a private data for any top athlete - his mediocre VO2max (80), his new registered record (83), his exceptional aerobic threshold etc...
check this (norwegian) https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/forbloffende-test-sjokkerte-seg-selv-med-ny-rekord-i-o2-opptak/68878668#_ga=2.138258480.1026949173.1505764777-305668728.1478341269
i mean, as we know from cycling and other endurance sports, such things as Vo2 max, w/kg at AT etc are not an everyday printout. many athletes and their coaches (not just sky and froome) release such private data when they need to manipulate, massage, intimidate or otherwise deflect from some other underlying cause.
not always, but more often than not it is to deflect doping. i just wonder why this not very long ago secretive dude has suddenly become a model of transparency ? reminds me his other transformation from an arrogant *** into a humble mortal after his doping was found out...
Re:
Good observations. I can hardly stand the view of that man anymore. So, they claim he has an extrem Vo2 max treshold value, and is able to keep it above 77ml/kg/min for half an hour! Remember, due to his asthma last year he claimed he only has 80% of a normal man's lung capacity. Hence, needing extreme doses of potent asthma medication.
https://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/sundby-om-astma-problemene-markant-handikap/a/23600686/?utm_term=VG+Sporten
python said:does anyone here remember the absolute impenetrable secrecy around the sundby doping case ?
he was allowed destroying the word's best, wracking up points, prizes and whatnot while apparently being investigated for doping in absolute secrecy. not a ferking peep leaked !! later, when the entire norwegian spin machine went in an overdrive telling us that noone ever had anything to hide, our poor and humble martin (probably after a major constipation) was quoted that he regretted being so secretive then
why do i dwell on that ? turns out, martin NOW is almost advertising what usually is a private data for any top athlete - his mediocre VO2max (80), his new registered record (83), his exceptional aerobic threshold etc...
check this (norwegian) https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/forbloffende-test-sjokkerte-seg-selv-med-ny-rekord-i-o2-opptak/68878668#_ga=2.138258480.1026949173.1505764777-305668728.1478341269
i mean, as we know from cycling and other endurance sports, such things as Vo2 max, w/kg at AT etc are not an everyday printout. many athletes and their coaches (not just sky and froome) release such private data when they need to manipulate, massage, intimidate or otherwise deflect from some other underlying cause.
not always, but more often than not it is to deflect doping. i just wonder why this not very long ago secretive dude has suddenly become a model of transparency ? reminds me his other transformation from an arrogant *** into a humble mortal after his doping was found out...
Good observations. I can hardly stand the view of that man anymore. So, they claim he has an extrem Vo2 max treshold value, and is able to keep it above 77ml/kg/min for half an hour! Remember, due to his asthma last year he claimed he only has 80% of a normal man's lung capacity. Hence, needing extreme doses of potent asthma medication.
https://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/sundby-om-astma-problemene-markant-handikap/a/23600686/?utm_term=VG+Sporten
Re: Re:
As the utilization rate is likely to be harder to measure and less well known amongst the public & sporting media, my guess is that this simply allows for greater room to spin a freak of nature narrative of some sort. Neat.
Interesting. So Sundby's oxygen consumption at "critical power", ie. efforts sustainable for 30-45min in elite athletes, would be at least around 77-75ml/kg/min. If his max is 83ml/kg/min, that is some fractional utilization rate of vo2max at critical power!Discgear said:python said:does anyone here remember the absolute impenetrable secrecy around the sundby doping case ?
he was allowed destroying the word's best, wracking up points, prizes and whatnot while apparently being investigated for doping in absolute secrecy. not a ferking peep leaked !! later, when the entire norwegian spin machine went in an overdrive telling us that noone ever had anything to hide, our poor and humble martin (probably after a major constipation) was quoted that he regretted being so secretive then
why do i dwell on that ? turns out, martin NOW is almost advertising what usually is a private data for any top athlete - his mediocre VO2max (80), his new registered record (83), his exceptional aerobic threshold etc...
check this (norwegian) https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/forbloffende-test-sjokkerte-seg-selv-med-ny-rekord-i-o2-opptak/68878668#_ga=2.138258480.1026949173.1505764777-305668728.1478341269
i mean, as we know from cycling and other endurance sports, such things as Vo2 max, w/kg at AT etc are not an everyday printout. many athletes and their coaches (not just sky and froome) release such private data when they need to manipulate, massage, intimidate or otherwise deflect from some other underlying cause.
not always, but more often than not it is to deflect doping. i just wonder why this not very long ago secretive dude has suddenly become a model of transparency ? reminds me his other transformation from an arrogant *** into a humble mortal after his doping was found out...
Good observations. I can hardly stand the view of that man anymore. So, they claim he has an extrem Vo2 max treshold value, and is able to keep it above 77ml/kg/min for half an hour! Remember, due to his asthma last year he claimed he only has 80% of a normal man's lung capacity. Hence, needing extreme doses of potent asthma medication.
https://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/sundby-om-astma-problemene-markant-handikap/a/23600686/?utm_term=VG+Sporten
As the utilization rate is likely to be harder to measure and less well known amongst the public & sporting media, my guess is that this simply allows for greater room to spin a freak of nature narrative of some sort. Neat.
Boycotting the entire russian squad is not ideal, but I think that when the problem is systemic and endemic like it has proven to be time and again amongst russian athletes, trainers and government, there might not be another way. It seems implausible that there would be clean russian athletes in the Sochi olympics at this point. Of course, if possible, they should investigate each case individually and not do a blanket ban.
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