Doping in XC skiing

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

If I remember correctly, Sundy self-diagnosed (and actively broadcasted) his asthma. But, cotnrary to popular Norwegian tradition, actually not a TUE for it. Dosed via state doctor supplied, waxing truck installed vaporizer, roughly (conservatively) 10-20x the typical dosage, daily. And doesn't miss a race over it.
But if you're Russian, you're banned by default. What do you expect, being Russian and all?

Segey Ustyugov (among many others) says hello.

Enough for the nonsense.

P.S. You've missed someting for sure...

The Russians looking bad does not make the Norwegians look better. Nebulizers, asthma medicine, the pointing of fingers at others and then the Johaug and Sunby cases. None of it is good.

High blood values, altitude tents, Ferrari, sudden increase in form (2002 Olympics, 2003 World's...).

Another one who doesn't bother to get the context. Or, more likely, I guess you both do (get the context and know your reaction is outside the point) but chose to pretend not to and rather look stupid. Well, it's your choice

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

If I remember correctly, Sundy self-diagnosed (and actively broadcasted) his asthma. But, cotnrary to popular Norwegian tradition, actually not a TUE for it. Dosed via state doctor supplied, waxing truck installed vaporizer, roughly (conservatively) 10-20x the typical dosage, daily. And doesn't miss a race over it.
But if you're Russian, you're banned by default. What do you expect, being Russian and all?

Segey Ustyugov (among many others) says hello.

Enough for the nonsense.

P.S. You've missed someting for sure...

The Russians looking bad does not make the Norwegians look better. Nebulizers, asthma medicine, the pointing of fingers at others and then the Johaug and Sunby cases. None of it is good.

High blood values, altitude tents, Ferrari, sudden increase in form (2002 Olympics, 2003 World's...).

Another one who doesn't bother to get the context. Or, more likely, I guess you both do (get the context and know your reaction is outside the point) but chose to pretend not to and rather look stupid. Well, it's your choice

Can you explain?

 

[Blaaswix]

Re: Re:

The Russians looking bad does not make the Norwegians look better.

Nobody says it does. Have you even bother to read and get context? Because your reaction is of the way.

Here's the thing: If you're going to have 'context' then everybody has to have the same allowance for 'context'. Without going through the whole of last season again, you can't make excuses for one country's athletes and not another's.

 

[Rider]

Re:

Sergey Ustiugov won the opening sprint stage of Tour de Ski today, but he didn't seem very pleased when interviewed, can anyone translate what he said?

The interview is @ 1h21m52s:
https://youtu.be/oyEPFRZFr_E?t=1h21m52s

My feelings? I am very happy to win today, but you know what circumstances we have around cross-country skiing of our country (he means all that Rodchenkov / Maclaren thing). We have to go out to the start and fight to the end and win, try, struggle to.

 

[Rider]

Regarding Russia, we have actually seen hard evidence.

Langley-made Iraq WMD type of evidence.

What evidence have you actually seen about Kriukov?

 

[Rider]

Yuri Kaminskiy started to train Nikita in regular school, when Nikita was 7 and brought him to Olympic victory. Later Kaminskiy trained Panzhinskiy (Olympic silver) and Petukhov (World gold) and some others. Not a single athlete from Kaminskiy was ever tested positive.

It's a known fact that Rodchenkov was selling doping for years. Rodchenkov (after hiding canadian Ben Johnson stanozolol positive test in 1986 and also after working in Canada's Calgary anti-doping center), as a WADA approved specialist, was running anti-doping seminar for Russia's ski team and after the end approached Kaminskiy and offered him to put skiers on a doping. Kaminskiy told Rodchenkov to go to hell.

There is no even a single so-called "evidence" (test tube scratches, any issues with the urine samples) against Kruikov but his surname in a "Dushes list" which has no evidence of its authenticity itself.

Only liers and politically-motivated or anti-russian nazionalist scoundrels could see "evidence" in, for instance, Kriukov's case and could not see villainy of US-orchestrated (and their Czech / Canadian / ... altar-boys) fake setup.

 

[Oude Geuze]

Damn, this place is becoming a bit too Illuminati for my taste, maybe take your theories to a flat earth society or something... You’re saying that political motives drove the doping agencies to conspire with Rodchenkov to defect with fabricated evidence, then tamper with the corresponding b-sample urin cups creating scratch marks to make it look like someone broke in to them, and filled them with table salt and female urin with a weighted specific gravity equal to the a sample.
Why not just say you found epo or exogenous testosterone in all the Russian athletes urin samples? Why make it so elaborate? If you believe the system is corrupt at this level, why do we even care about doping tests? Because at that point, nothing is relevant, nothing is true, and reality is is more subjective than a Trump-tweet.

And wtf does WMD in Iraq from 2001 have ANYTHING to do with this? I mean seriously, are you guys for real or is this just trolling?

 

[Rider]

Re:

maybe take your theories to a flat earth society or something...

You are the last person I gonna ask what to take and where. Don't tell me what to do, I won't tell you where to go with your advices.

Answering questions by throwing in other questions is definitely trolling. So before asking questions answer what are the evidences against Nikita Kriukov?

 

[ppanther92]

To pour a bit more oil in the fire - wtf is going on with Shipulin's sister at the moment? On the best way to defend her Olympic title again (in this form i can't see past her). Doesn't matter that she wasn't seen all the 4 years in between. Who needs competition anyway? Also the whole doing her own thing and not training with the rest of the team is a bit odd, but of course no evidence in it self.

 

[portugal11]

kuzmina?? do we have the riis of biahtlon?

 

[roundabout]

She had a daughter in July 2015.

But yeah, her current skiing performances are a bit too good right now.

 

[Cloxxki]

I remember Gunda Niemann (speed skating) came back pretty fit after giving birth.

Did you guys her the Tour de Ski men's Stage 6 commentary on British Eurosport? Sundy got at least mentioned for his salbutamol scandal twice. Did our emails get heard?

 

[pantanivdb]

How clean is Martin Fourcade?

 

[Cloxxki]

Did you guys her the Tour de Ski men's Stage 6 commentary on British Eurosport? Sundy got at least mentioned for his salbutamol scandal twice. Did our emails get heard?

Wow, even the beloved Denise Herrmann gets a doping shoutout to open the Oberhof Sprint footage!

 

[BullsFan22]

Did you guys her the Tour de Ski men's Stage 6 commentary on British Eurosport? Sundy got at least mentioned for his salbutamol scandal twice. Did our emails get heard?

Wow, even the beloved Denise Herrmann gets a doping shoutout to open the Oberhof Sprint footage!

What??

 

[BullsFan22]

Conditions seemed quite fast, which suited Harvey and Poltoranin, two men that haven't had too much success on this climb, but today, they were NOTICEABLY quicker than normal. They both stuck in for longer than I thought. Poltoranin I thought would start dropping if not early on the climb, certainly halfway on the steepest pitches. Harvey stuck to Sundby like glue until the last drag to the finish. What in the world?? I know Harvey had an 'operation' a couple years ago for some leg issues that he said would help him on the climb. Last year he couldn't do anything when Hellner, Cologna, Heikkinen and Manificat caught and passed him. This year he hangs on to Sundby, the fastest skier on the day. I don't want to hear anymore complaints about any doping from Harvey, but you know it's going to happen, particularly if he comes away from another Olympic cycle without a medal and even more so if the Russians have success there.

 

[Rider]

Koukalova story looks very, very questionable. Two excellent seasons in WC (till the last stage in 2016-2017) and suddenly some ... sickness in summer. Extremely questionable.

 

[Cloxxki]

Re:

Koukalova story looks very, very questionable. Two excellent seasons in WC (till the last stage in 2016-2017) and suddenly some ... sickness in summer. Extremely questionable.

Indeed.

I'm still not sture about Neuner's retirement. She complained about too little testing. Was this because she saw team mates get away with murder, or because in an Amstrongian way she was deflecting attention away from herself in that context? Or even more interestingly, felt bad for doing it and wanted to be brought to a halt?
Her early retirement being communicated well in advance makes it a non-issue or symptom of the greatest cover-up ever.

 

[Rider]

Neuner's retirement on her results peak was exactly in the eve of bio passport introduction in biathlon. Enough said.

 

[roundabout]

I thought you guys were big on the whole evidence thing.

Guess not.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The biggest problem with the Koukalová story is simply that there hasn't been much communication of what exactly the problem is, just that it's to do with her calf. Maybe the Czech press has more information, but to miss a whole season - and an Olympic one no less - is a huge step to take, and it was also announced well in advance, back at the end of October, that she may miss the Olympics. If there was some precision about what it was that had caused that absence - like Sleptsova's knee surgery, Gössner's spinal injury or Simon Fourcade's toxoplasmosis - it would perhaps seem less questionable. Like "she badly messed up her leg in a biking accident and the muscles are a complete mess" --> "ok, that sounds fair enough" or "she's torn a muscle in a place that makes it really difficult to mend, so it will take a lot longer" --> "that sucks, suppose she probably won't be able to train to the level needed". As things stand, thus far - and presumably because until recently there was still the possibility of her competing in Pyeongchang - everything's been dealt with in very vague details that make it hard to draw any conclusions from.

I mean, I thought her emergence in 2012-13 was suspiciously immediate, but apparently she had missed most of 2011-12 with mono which explains that lack of results. And I thought her emergence as a dominant skier was somewhat surprising too, but it's not like she woke up one day and made a huge step up in level like Irina Starykh either. I'm also well aware that my personal dislike of her affects how I perceive these things too.

 

[lartiste]

Re:

The biggest problem with the Koukalová story is simply that there hasn't been much communication of what exactly the problem is, just that it's to do with her calf. Maybe the Czech press has more information, but to miss a whole season - and an Olympic one no less - is a huge step to take, and it was also announced well in advance, back at the end of October, that she may miss the Olympics. If there was some precision about what it was that had caused that absence - like Sleptsova's knee surgery, Gössner's spinal injury or Simon Fourcade's toxoplasmosis - it would perhaps seem less questionable. Like "she badly messed up her leg in a biking accident and the muscles are a complete mess" --> "ok, that sounds fair enough" or "she's torn a muscle in a place that makes it really difficult to mend, so it will take a lot longer" --> "that sucks, suppose she probably won't be able to train to the level needed". As things stand, thus far - and presumably because until recently there was still the possibility of her competing in Pyeongchang - everything's been dealt with in very vague details that make it hard to draw any conclusions from.

I mean, I thought her emergence in 2012-13 was suspiciously immediate, but apparently she had missed most of 2011-12 with mono which explains that lack of results. And I thought her emergence as a dominant skier was somewhat surprising too, but it's not like she woke up one day and made a huge step up in level like Irina Starykh either. I'm also well aware that my personal dislike of her affects how I perceive these things too.

Not so much, only vague explanation that probably due to change in skiing technique she has problems with calfs ... . The part concerning skiing technique haven't been discussed until December... .

 

[Rider]

Could one see any significant difference in her technique between 2015-2016 and 2016-2017? I do not see it.

First news about her calves came in July. She was great during the last season and the last stage of the season. Did she changed her technique in April / June?

How many skiers had such issues with calves that could not recover for 6 months? Could not remember a single one. As well as google.

 

[lartiste]

Could one see any significant difference in her technique between 2015-2016 and 2016-2017? I do not see it.

First news about her calves came in July. She was great during the last season and the last stage of the season. Did she changed her technique in April / June?

How many skiers had such issues with calves that could not recover for 6 months? Could not remember a single one. As well as google.

She claimed that she was training to change her skiing technique during last two years ... . She claimed, that it was too demanding for feets and calfs for someone with her physique ... .

If I remember correctly problems with leg muscles effectively ended carrier of ice hockey player Otakar Vejvoda, when he was less than 26 ... .

 

[Kokoso]

Could one see any significant difference in her technique between 2015-2016 and 2016-2017? I do not see it.

First news about her calves came in July. She was great during the last season and the last stage of the season. Did she changed her technique in April / June?

How many skiers had such issues with calves that could not recover for 6 months? Could not remember a single one. As well as google.

Nice try, but that change of technique happened in longer time span than April/June last year, so this "Could one see any significant difference in her technique between 2015-2016 and 2016-2017?" is wrong quetion.

And, it was not first time she had problems with this. She had problems with Achilles tendons for long time.

"How many skiers had such issues with calves that could not recover for 6 months? Could not remember a single one." Hahaha...how many of them do you know? :razz: Anyway, there are many health problems that woud not recover in six months, especially if one is not completely resting.