Doping in XC skiing

[lartiste]

Libertine Seguros: Good news for you, Koukalova is done and it is clear that she will not compete any more. Nowdays she publish every day article in tabloids in order to promote her new book. She spits at everyone and majority of Czech starts to think, that she is totally crazy. She even attacked teammates, coaches, no way back ... . PS: And Vitkova hates her because she throw an apple on her when they were 5.

 

[MrRoboto]

So IBU is under investigation for corruption and covering up positive tests by the austrian police. Raids in Austria (IBU HQ), Germany and Norway (Besseberg's home), where computers, phones and records have been confiscated.

 

[ppanther92]

Re:

So IBU is under investigation for corruption and covering up positive tests by the austrian police. Raids in Austria (IBU HQ), Germany and Norway (Besseberg's home), where computers, phones and records have been confiscated.

Austrian online portal is posting already details (don't know if legit):

https://www.laola1.at/de/red/wintersport/biathlon/news/biathlon-chaos--ibu-boss-soll-doping-vertuscht-haben/

Of 22 Russians that started in the World Cup the last season, 17 had a positive test covered up by the IBU. Crazy... :surprised:

 

[ppanther92]

And in total, 65 positive tests were covered up since 2011. Well, IBU with a strong claim in competing for most corrupt organisation if true.

 

[BullsFan22]

And what a great season the Russians had last season! No podiums from any women, and only Shipulin and Tsvetkov with wins and podiums. Must be some really crappy doping they are using.

But we know for sure that people like Fourcade and Dahlmeier are clean. In fact everyone else is clean as well. It's only the Russians that dope. Their results from last season prove it.

 

[ToreBear]

IBU president Besseberg had trouble understanding how they could cover up tests when all they get from the lab is copies of the results from the lab. The lab directly posts the results on Adams.

I hope the Austrians get to the bottom of this quickly. Cause this is an interesting mystery. Right now I'm thinking this is a nothing burger.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Let's be careful though, some of the wording you have there is ambiguous which leads to confusion. The suggestion is not that 17 of 22 Russian athletes had a positive test covered up in 2017-18, but that 17 of the 22 athletes who represented Russia at the World Cup in 2017-18 had previously had either biopassport anomalies, a positive test, or both, at some point previously in their career.

The scope of this particular investigation looks to be a five year period stretching from Ruhpolding 2012 to Hochfilzen 2017, which would bring into play those who were involved in the Sochi deception, and also those who were around during the period between Sochi taking place and Sochi becoming public, during which time it seems it is likely that things continued.

The following represented Russia at the 2017-18 Biathlon World Cup:

Anton Babikov
Matvey Eliseev
Evgeny Garanichev
Aleksandr Loginov
Igor Malinovskii
Dmitry Malyshko
Petr Pashchenko
Anton Shipulin
Yuri Shopin
Maxim Tsvetkov
Alexey Volkov

Tatiana Akimova
Uliana Kaisheva
Svetlana Mironova
Olga Podchufarova
Kristina Reztsova
Viktoria Slivko
Irina Starykh
Irina Uslugina
Daria Virolaynen
Ekaterina Yurlova-Percht

That totals 21, plus Alexey Slepov was selected for Tyumen' but did not race.

Figuring out who hasn't been involved then becomes difficult. There's four who were able to compete at the Olympics, but then that suggests a number of cases among those who have precious little international experience at the time period that the investigation covers. And if the investigation is talking about the World Cup level, then running up to and including Hochfilzen's World Championships last season would seem to exonerate Malinovskii, Mironova and Reztsova, none of whom had debuted at the World Cup until after those championships (Malinovskii and Reztsova also only did the one event at the end of the season this year with the bonus entries from the IBU Cup).

Otherwise from a Russian perspective it's more or less as-you-were; especially among the men for whom the team has remained fairly static for a long time now, with the same 7 or 8 athletes covering more or less the whole season (Slepov, Malinovskii and Pashchenko only went to Tyumen' from the IBU cup entries, Shopin did one World Cup race at Oberhof to fulfil the obligations of the Izhevsk Rifle), and all but Babikov and Eliseev have been the core of the team since before Sochi anyway. Among the women, there's been a bit more flux, admittedly, but then their results have been worse.

The issue is now on the IBU's side of course. I would actually argue that the IBU is not making a particularly strong claim in competing for most corrupt organisation. It's certainly jumping up the league table, but this only really puts it at the level of the UCI even if true, for the Armstrong collusion, and still a way behind FIFA. But it's really not a good look and the fact Besseberg has clung to power since the beginning makes him almost synonymous with that governing body which will put more smoke under the fire.

It does make the calls against Besseberg by the likes of Koukalová make more sense, and although I am perfectly glad to see the back of her, at the same time while some of her revelations like the nonsense story about Vitková are pretty ridiculous, her admitting to having had issues with anorexia does put some other pieces of the jigsaw into place. It would make sense if that was the 'true' reason for her absence that she would not necessarily want to be public about it until she was ready; at the same time I would say that, like when Koko and I had that blazing row about Tiril Eckhoff's build a few years ago, it would seem that Gabi is somebody who is not naturally rail thin, and compared to the likes of Gössner/Neureuther and Mäkäräinen among the fastest skiers this was clear, and perhaps the pressure of dieting down to keep in the competitive shape to keep her ski speed up takes its toll and either exacerbates/accentuates pre-existing problems or creates new ones. While I won't miss her on the trails, at the same time eating disorders are no laughing matter and I hope she has been able to overcome that now, and if not I hope she is getting the help she needs to do so.

Edit:
Oh, and of course there's Lapshin and Frolina as well who've represented Russia in the timeframe of the investigation (I think, Frolina may have been ousted from the team by 2012), who increasingly look like the smart ones. Avvakumova too, but she didn't get to the highest level with Russia before the switch.

Edit 2:
Scratch that last bit, Avvakumova's fallen out with the Korean team brass and will return to representing Russia.

 

[alternator]

So sad, this slippery slope. You start out perfectly innocently, just covering up your German and Norwegian countrymen's positives like a good patriot should, and before you know it, you are taking cash from the Russians and leaving a money trail...

 

[Kokoso]

And what a great season the Russians had last season! No podiums from any women, and only Shipulin and Tsvetkov with wins and podiums. Must be some really crappy doping they are using.

But we know for sure that people like Fourcade and Dahlmeier are clean. In fact everyone else is clean as well. It's only the Russians that dope. Their results from last season prove it.

In defense of Russians you are again jumping to prejudiced conlusions.

 

[Rider]

But we know for sure that people like Fourcade and Dahlmeier are clean. In fact everyone else is clean as well. It's only the Russians that dope. Their results from last season prove it.

Yeah, Koukalova is the funniest.

Very similar to story in ski. In her recent interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATTCgFisvrk&app=desktop) talking about doping Välbe told "I perfectly understand why I did not have individual Olympic gold" meaning that skiers who won those races were juiced.

If we take 1992 there were russian Egorova, Marjut Rolig (Lukkarinen) and Belmondo ahead of Välbe. Only Egorova was caught doped. If we check WChamps before and after those '92 Games we could see that Välbe destroyed Lukkarinen and Belmondo.

The same story with '94 Games. Ahead of Välbe just russian skiers who were caught or Italians, Finns and Norwegians who were not.

 

[MrRoboto]

Very similar to story in ski. In her recent interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATTCgFisvrk&app=desktop) talking about doping Välbe told "I perfectly understand why I did not have individual Olympic gold" meaning that skiers who won those races were juiced.

If we take 1992 there were russian Egorova, Marjut Rolig (Lukkarinen) and Belmondo ahead of Välbe. Only Egorova was caught doped. If we check WChamps before and after those '92 Games we could see that Välbe destroyed Lukkarinen and Belmondo.

The same story with '94 Games. Ahead of Välbe just russian skiers who were caught or Italians, Finns and Norwegians who were not.

Lucky for her they didn't bother to dope in the world championships.

 

[Netserk]

More details, there are 12 suspects, ten of which is for doping, the other two for corruption: https://www.nrk.no/sport/12-personer-mistenkt-i-skiskyttersaken-1.14009374

 

[John de Savage]

Extremely shady
https://www.svt.se/sport/vintersport/uppfoljning-ug-sandberg-arjes

 

[search]

Some news from Russia...

http://www.biathlonworld.com/news/detail/ibu-notifies-rbu-and-four-russian-athletes-about-adrv

Edit: "Russian media are reporting the athletes include Olympic gold medallists Svetlana Sleptsova and Evgeny Ustyugov, as well as Alexander Chernyshov."

https://www.insidethegames.biz/index.php/articles/1069384/ibu-announces-anti-doping-rule-violation-charges-against-four-more-russian-athletes

 

[ToreBear]

Svetlana Sleptsova?! I'm shocked

 

[lartiste]

Eventhough it is not xc skiing, please note doping in NHL - Nat Schmidt, will miss 20 games, substance not known. this case just confirms the attitude of NHL to doping ... .

 

[roundabout]

with it being the NHL, I would not be surprised if the ban length is a part of the CBA

but, anyway, I think there is a doping in other sports thread where this discussion would probably be more appropriate

 

[alternator]

There have been quite a few big name biathlon retirements this summer. Koukalova, Svendsen, Dorin Habert, Domracheva, even the ageless Björndalen seem to have retired. Retirements happen every year, but most of the above have not really reached the usual retirement age - it makes me wonder if there is still another shoe to drop from the Besseberg indictment for (some of the) non-Russian athletes as well?

Mäkäräinen and Dahlmeier were considering their options too, but both will reportedly continue. What that means depends on your viewpoint, I guess.

And I have no idea if Kuzmina will again disappear for three years until the next Olympics.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

There have been quite a few big name biathlon retirements this summer. Koukalova, Svendsen, Dorin Habert, Domracheva, even the ageless Björndalen seem to have retired. Retirements happen every year, but most of the above have not really reached the usual retirement age - it makes me wonder if there is still another shoe to drop from the Besseberg indictment for (some of the) non-Russian athletes as well?

Mäkäräinen and Dahlmeier were considering their options too, but both will reportedly continue. What that means depends on your viewpoint, I guess.

And I have no idea if Kuzmina will again disappear for three years until the next Olympics.

There's always quite a few retirements post-Olympics though. A lot of athletes who don't expect to make it through another four year cycle will retire especially if they have a good Olympics. Koukalová's is the only retirement of those that I would say raises any flags whatsoever, and those have been discussed previously. Domracheva and Bjørndalen are a couple with a small child, and Dorin Habert also has a young child which will play a role in the reasons for retirement. All are the wrong side of 30, and you do see quite a lot of women retire not far into their 30s in a lot of endurance sports, especially with it being on a four year cycle when they'll all be 35-36 by the time the next Olympics roll around. Svendsen by contrast has simply not been able to recapture the athlete he used to be for a good three or four years now, showing only sporadic glimpses, and with Norway having a new star in Johannes Bø and a bunch of youngish athletes who are getting closer to or surpassing the current Svendsen level, he probably doesn't want to keep on going as such a shell of his former self.

The athletes continuing also have reasons; Finland probably simply need Mäkäräinen badly to keep the sport in the public eye there and keep attendance up at the Kontiolahti World Cup round, and given she doesn't have family commitments she's probably easier to convince to continue (Belarus have been completely gutted, as also Skardino and Pisareva have both retired; the latter had lost her place in the relay and was producing diminishing returns, and also got married soon after the announcement so may well be looking to start a family soon too; Skardino is 33 and probably decided that the chances of replicating an achievement like the Olympic gold medal relay was so unlikely she wanted to go out at the top) than some. Laura, like Magdalena Neuner before her, isn't really the dominant personality type and has always maintained that she will probably retire early and doesn't see herself in the sport for the long haul; she's won a World Cup overall, dominated a World Championships and won two Olympic golds; I think had she had a huge Olympic haul akin to her Hochfilzen Worlds achievements she would have retired simply because she'd run out of things to achieve, but as things stand I think she still has some unfinished business. She will retire before she's 30, I'm certain.

 

[Robert5091]

Be interesting to see how the Russians are treated after WADA's decision today.

 

[Sciatic]

9 Kazakh biathletes:
http://www.biathlonworld.com/news/detail/ibu-provisionally-suspends-nine-kazakh-biathletes

Sounds like this a result of a police raid?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

9 Kazakh biathletes:
http://www.biathlonworld.com/news/detail/ibu-provisionally-suspends-nine-kazakh-biathletes

Sounds like this a result of a police raid?

Dates back a long time. The Austrian police raided the Kazakhs back in 2017. First reported on the board here by Robert5091.

10 athletes were detained then but all passed tests and nothing could be pinned on them so they continued unheeded. The timeline appears that the Austrian and Südtirol Italian police worked together on this one as Italian police raided the team at the Antholz round in January. Seems that this has been enough for them to either pick up new stuff or link the previously found items to specific athletes enough that they can pin them down.

I think the latter is most likely because looking at Antholz 2018, Yelizaveta Belchenko, Roman Yeremin and Vladislav Vitenko all compete who are not among the suspended athletes while Yan Savitsky, Anton Pantov and Anna Kistanova are among the suspended athletes but weren't there in Antholz. Apart from that Vitenko raced the Individual, the 9 athletes match up perfectly to the 2017 Hochfilzen World Championships squad. The article about the Antholz raid mentioned 10 athletes were brought in for questioning so I think it's pretty clear at this stage the 2017 World Championships scandal is the main cause of this and Vitenko is the odd one out.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Be interesting to see how the Russians are treated after WADA's decision today.

Well, you still have the usual suspects (Samuelsson, Tygart, the Americans, Czechs and Canadians...) barking for the Russians to be completely taken out of the circuit in Biathlon. It's a no brainer at this point that them wanting the Russians out of the circuit has nothing to do with doping. No matter what the Russians do, it's not good enough. WADA was great until it cleared RUSADA to test. The IOC was good until they let the Russians compete in Pyeongchang. CAS was good until it cleared the majority of the Russians of any wrongdoing. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

[BullsFan22]

9 Kazakh biathletes:
http://www.biathlonworld.com/news/detail/ibu-provisionally-suspends-nine-kazakh-biathletes

Sounds like this a result of a police raid?

Dates back a long time. The Austrian police raided the Kazakhs back in 2017. First reported on the board here by Robert5091.

10 athletes were detained then but all passed tests and nothing could be pinned on them so they continued unheeded. The timeline appears that the Austrian and Südtirol Italian police worked together on this one as Italian police raided the team at the Antholz round in January. Seems that this has been enough for them to either pick up new stuff or link the previously found items to specific athletes enough that they can pin them down.

I think the latter is most likely because looking at Antholz 2018, Yelizaveta Belchenko, Roman Yeremin and Vladislav Vitenko all compete who are not among the suspended athletes while Yan Savitsky, Anton Pantov and Anna Kistanova are among the suspended athletes but weren't there in Antholz. Apart from that Vitenko raced the Individual, the 9 athletes match up perfectly to the 2017 Hochfilzen World Championships squad. The article about the Antholz raid mentioned 10 athletes were brought in for questioning so I think it's pretty clear at this stage the 2017 World Championships scandal is the main cause of this and Vitenko is the odd one out.

There are always going to be sacrificial lambs. It just so happens that in Antholz/Anterselva 2017 it was/are the Kazakhs...

One wonders what really were the reasons for the Neuner and especially the Koukalova retirements.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Be interesting to see how the Russians are treated after WADA's decision today.

Well, you still have the usual suspects (Samuelsson, Tygart, the Americans, Czechs and Canadians...) barking for the Russians to be completely taken out of the circuit in Biathlon.

Regarding Czechs - you are just wrong. What perverse pleasure you have by propagating rubbish is question I (luckily) don't understand.