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Re: Re:
and what dope makes a 22 sports rifle shoot like a machine gun the way loginov seems to have been shooting ?
you think fourcade finally off some dope ? i never minded his wins and always gave him respect...until he began DEMANDING apologies, which funnily coincide with his own 'humanization'.frenchfry said:
and what dope makes a 22 sports rifle shoot like a machine gun the way loginov seems to have been shooting ?
- Mar 13, 2009
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When you arrive at the shooting range less tired, you have a better chance of shooting clean.
One of the main reasons the other biathletes don't like Loginov is that he has never admitted or apologised for his doping. Like most (or all?) Russian athletes, he considers himself a victim - despite the fact that Russia has been proven to have engaged in widespread state-organised doping and a state-organised cover-up which is still going on. I have trouble reconciling these and giving the benefit of a doubt to the athletes, especially those that were caught red-handed like Loginov.
python said:
When you arrive at the shooting range less tired, you have a better chance of shooting clean.
One of the main reasons the other biathletes don't like Loginov is that he has never admitted or apologised for his doping. Like most (or all?) Russian athletes, he considers himself a victim - despite the fact that Russia has been proven to have engaged in widespread state-organised doping and a state-organised cover-up which is still going on. I have trouble reconciling these and giving the benefit of a doubt to the athletes, especially those that were caught red-handed like Loginov.
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Re:
Maybe he isn't doping now, but the doper label is still his.
You can speculate about Fourcade, after all up to this year he has outragously dominated for the better part of a decade. But that will remain speculation until...
Loginov = Proven doperpython said:i think you are upset, fry, he beat your compatriot doper..even you seem to see that w/o a dope fourcade who used to be a quitlecade is barely a triplecade:lol:
Maybe he isn't doping now, but the doper label is still his.
You can speculate about Fourcade, after all up to this year he has outragously dominated for the better part of a decade. But that will remain speculation until...
- Sep 25, 2009
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... understood. re. fourcade, i will always give him the benefit of a doubt until he fails. nor did his dominance, nor his personality for that matter, unlike many fans here and elsewhere, bothered/bothers me much. if his dominance was due to doping and now somehow vanished b/c he had reduced or stopped, we certainly can speculate, but there is not much public substance to that.
as i said, what started to bother me, is his insistence on apologies. perhaps it's due to my personal attitude. i would NEVER demand an apology in a case like loginov's.it does not fit with my understanding of guilt and redemption. why ? the man by his doping hurt himself, earned the stigma and lost a lot of credibility. he surely cheated some out of prizes but hardly fourcade...what would apology achieve and in what form it should be expressed ? some will say he did not apologize enough or used the phrases they don't accept. There is no way to satisfy all 'offended.
an adult, particularly as successful as fourcade, in my book looks petty (at best) or is trying to overact ('i am therefore clean') when demanding that some fallen mortal must apologize as if they personally hurt him. the much more upstanding attitude would be to forgive but not forget as the individual had paid the dues. that's how, after all, we behave in our everyday lives with our kids spouses, friends and coworkers.
i was pulling your leg, fry. you seem to hate russian dopers MORE than armstrong dopingfrenchfry said:Loginov = Proven doperpython said:i think you are upset, fry, he beat your compatriot doper..even you seem to see that w/o a dope fourcade who used to be a quitlecade is barely a triplecade
Maybe he isn't doping now, but the doper label is still his.
You can speculate about Fourcade, after all up to this year he has outragously dominated for the better part of a decade. But that will remain speculation until...
... understood. re. fourcade, i will always give him the benefit of a doubt until he fails. nor did his dominance, nor his personality for that matter, unlike many fans here and elsewhere, bothered/bothers me much. if his dominance was due to doping and now somehow vanished b/c he had reduced or stopped, we certainly can speculate, but there is not much public substance to that.as i said, what started to bother me, is his insistence on apologies. perhaps it's due to my personal attitude. i would NEVER demand an apology in a case like loginov's.it does not fit with my understanding of guilt and redemption. why ? the man by his doping hurt himself, earned the stigma and lost a lot of credibility. he surely cheated some out of prizes but hardly fourcade...what would apology achieve and in what form it should be expressed ? some will say he did not apologize enough or used the phrases they don't accept. There is no way to satisfy all 'offended.
an adult, particularly as successful as fourcade, in my book looks petty (at best) or is trying to overact ('i am therefore clean') when demanding that some fallen mortal must apologize as if they personally hurt him. the much more upstanding attitude would be to forgive but not forget as the individual had paid the dues. that's how, after all, we behave in our everyday lives with our kids spouses, friends and coworkers.
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My understanding is that Fourcade isn't the only one demanding an apology. These guys spend a lot of time together so I can understand.
I have a thing about Russian dopers because collectively they play the conspiracy card and take us for idiots. A little confession would be good for the soul, just ask Armstrong!
NEVER underestimate my hate of Armstrong!python said:i was pulling your leg, fry. you seem to hate russian dopers MORE than armstrong dopingfrenchfry said:Loginov = Proven doperpython said:i think you are upset, fry, he beat your compatriot doper..even you seem to see that w/o a dope fourcade who used to be a quitlecade is barely a triplecade
Maybe he isn't doping now, but the doper label is still his.
You can speculate about Fourcade, after all up to this year he has outragously dominated for the better part of a decade. But that will remain speculation until...
as i said, what started to bother me, is his insistence on apologies. perhaps it's due to my personal attitude. i would NEVER demand an apology in a case like loginov's.it does not fit with my understanding of guilt and redemption. why ? the man by his doping hurt himself, earned the stigma and lost a lot of credibility. he surely cheated some out of prizes but hardly fourcade...what would apology achieve and in what form it should be expressed ? some will say he did not apologize enough or used the phrases they don't accept. There is no way to satisfy all 'offended.
an adult, particularly as successful as fourcade, in my book looks petty (at best) or is trying to overact ('i am therefore clean') when demanding that some fallen mortal must apologize as if they personally hurt him. the much more upstanding attitude would be to forgive but not forget as the individual had paid the dues. that's how, after all, we behave in our everyday lives with our kids spouses, friends and coworkers.
My understanding is that Fourcade isn't the only one demanding an apology. These guys spend a lot of time together so I can understand.
I have a thing about Russian dopers because collectively they play the conspiracy card and take us for idiots. A little confession would be good for the soul, just ask Armstrong!
- Jun 22, 2010
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Apologize? He served a two year ban. What else is he supposed to do? He owes you, me, and everyone else nothing. Did Johaug apologize for her doping? She didn't take ANY responsibility for getting caught 'red-handed' in 2016. Neither did Sundby. Neither did Denise Herrmann, who was caught 'red-handed' in 2007, as an 18 year old! Did Sachenbacher apologize? Did the Finns apologize in 2001? Did Kaisa Varis apologize the second time she was caught? Have the Austrians apologized for having athletes on both the xc and biathlon A team get caught for doping? Has the Italian team apologized for the Taschlers? Has the Olympiatoppen apologized for giving asthma meds to non-asthmatic athletes systematically? But I know what's coming next....'but the Russians use state doping, and that's bad! Shame on them!'
Spare us the 'holier-than-thou' hypocrisy. This is professional sport, if you hate doping so much, i suggest not watching any professional sport.
frenchfry said:NEVER underestimate my hate of Armstrong!python said:i was pulling your leg, fry. you seem to hate russian dopers MORE than armstrong dopingfrenchfry said:Loginov = Proven doperpython said:i think you are upset, fry, he beat your compatriot doper..even you seem to see that w/o a dope fourcade who used to be a quitlecade is barely a triplecade
Maybe he isn't doping now, but the doper label is still his.
You can speculate about Fourcade, after all up to this year he has outragously dominated for the better part of a decade. But that will remain speculation until...
as i said, what started to bother me, is his insistence on apologies. perhaps it's due to my personal attitude. i would NEVER demand an apology in a case like loginov's.it does not fit with my understanding of guilt and redemption. why ? the man by his doping hurt himself, earned the stigma and lost a lot of credibility. he surely cheated some out of prizes but hardly fourcade...what would apology achieve and in what form it should be expressed ? some will say he did not apologize enough or used the phrases they don't accept. There is no way to satisfy all 'offended.
an adult, particularly as successful as fourcade, in my book looks petty (at best) or is trying to overact ('i am therefore clean') when demanding that some fallen mortal must apologize as if they personally hurt him. the much more upstanding attitude would be to forgive but not forget as the individual had paid the dues. that's how, after all, we behave in our everyday lives with our kids spouses, friends and coworkers.
My understanding is that Fourcade isn't the only one demanding an apology. These guys spend a lot of time together so I can understand.
I have a thing about Russian dopers because collectively they play the conspiracy card and take us for idiots. A little confession would be good for the soul, just ask Armstrong!
Apologize? He served a two year ban. What else is he supposed to do? He owes you, me, and everyone else nothing. Did Johaug apologize for her doping? She didn't take ANY responsibility for getting caught 'red-handed' in 2016. Neither did Sundby. Neither did Denise Herrmann, who was caught 'red-handed' in 2007, as an 18 year old! Did Sachenbacher apologize? Did the Finns apologize in 2001? Did Kaisa Varis apologize the second time she was caught? Have the Austrians apologized for having athletes on both the xc and biathlon A team get caught for doping? Has the Italian team apologized for the Taschlers? Has the Olympiatoppen apologized for giving asthma meds to non-asthmatic athletes systematically? But I know what's coming next....'but the Russians use state doping, and that's bad! Shame on them!'
Spare us the 'holier-than-thou' hypocrisy. This is professional sport, if you hate doping so much, i suggest not watching any professional sport.
- Mar 13, 2009
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I don't know if any of the many known dopers you have listed apologised at some time. Maybe some did, maybe some didn't. From what I know, several biathletes criticize Loginov's attitute (not just Fourcade) and he isn't appreciated for that. Maybe they wouldn't like him anyway, even if he had not been caught doping.
When it comes to the Russians, I admit to being hard on them. But I also can, and have been, be hard on others, when the subject comes up. Not many countries though, if any, have been caught doing what the Russians were caught doing - the scale far surpasses the Austrians, Italians, Norwegians etc. Excepting the East Germans.
As for watching professional sports, indeed it isn't always easy and that is why it always pisses me off when there is yet another scandal. The clinic helps vent some of this frustration, sorry if that bothers you.
BullsFan22 said:frenchfry said:NEVER underestimate my hate of Armstrong!python said:i was pulling your leg, fry. you seem to hate russian dopers MORE than armstrong dopingfrenchfry said:Loginov = Proven doperpython said:i think you are upset, fry, he beat your compatriot doper..even you seem to see that w/o a dope fourcade who used to be a quitlecade is barely a triplecade
Maybe he isn't doping now, but the doper label is still his.
You can speculate about Fourcade, after all up to this year he has outragously dominated for the better part of a decade. But that will remain speculation until...
as i said, what started to bother me, is his insistence on apologies. perhaps it's due to my personal attitude. i would NEVER demand an apology in a case like loginov's.it does not fit with my understanding of guilt and redemption. why ? the man by his doping hurt himself, earned the stigma and lost a lot of credibility. he surely cheated some out of prizes but hardly fourcade...what would apology achieve and in what form it should be expressed ? some will say he did not apologize enough or used the phrases they don't accept. There is no way to satisfy all 'offended.
an adult, particularly as successful as fourcade, in my book looks petty (at best) or is trying to overact ('i am therefore clean') when demanding that some fallen mortal must apologize as if they personally hurt him. the much more upstanding attitude would be to forgive but not forget as the individual had paid the dues. that's how, after all, we behave in our everyday lives with our kids spouses, friends and coworkers.
My understanding is that Fourcade isn't the only one demanding an apology. These guys spend a lot of time together so I can understand.
I have a thing about Russian dopers because collectively they play the conspiracy card and take us for idiots. A little confession would be good for the soul, just ask Armstrong!
Apologize? He served a two year ban. What else is he supposed to do? He owes you, me, and everyone else nothing. Did Johaug apologize for her doping? She didn't take ANY responsibility for getting caught 'red-handed' in 2016. Neither did Sundby. Neither did Denise Herrmann, who was caught 'red-handed' in 2007, as an 18 year old! Did Sachenbacher apologize? Did the Finns apologize in 2001? Did Kaisa Varis apologize the second time she was caught? Have the Austrians apologized for having athletes on both the xc and biathlon A team get caught for doping? Has the Italian team apologized for the Taschlers? Has the Olympiatoppen apologized for giving asthma meds to non-asthmatic athletes systematically? But I know what's coming next....'but the Russians use state doping, and that's bad! Shame on them!'
Spare us the 'holier-than-thou' hypocrisy. This is professional sport, if you hate doping so much, i suggest not watching any professional sport.
I don't know if any of the many known dopers you have listed apologised at some time. Maybe some did, maybe some didn't. From what I know, several biathletes criticize Loginov's attitute (not just Fourcade) and he isn't appreciated for that. Maybe they wouldn't like him anyway, even if he had not been caught doping.
When it comes to the Russians, I admit to being hard on them. But I also can, and have been, be hard on others, when the subject comes up. Not many countries though, if any, have been caught doing what the Russians were caught doing - the scale far surpasses the Austrians, Italians, Norwegians etc. Excepting the East Germans.
As for watching professional sports, indeed it isn't always easy and that is why it always pisses me off when there is yet another scandal. The clinic helps vent some of this frustration, sorry if that bothers you.
Re: Re:
Bulls... You know some in your list did appologies, multiple times. It is bit sad (or lack of memory) that you list i.e Finns of 2001, where i.e. Myllyla did public appology testimonies, never recovered mentally from his shame, and ended his days. I would appreciate you think a moment when using such people absolutely falesly in the nationalism defence propaganda.
BullsFan22 said:frenchfry said:NEVER underestimate my hate of Armstrong!python said:i was pulling your leg, fry. you seem to hate russian dopers MORE than armstrong dopingfrenchfry said:Loginov = Proven doperpython said:i think you are upset, fry, he beat your compatriot doper..even you seem to see that w/o a dope fourcade who used to be a quitlecade is barely a triplecade
Maybe he isn't doping now, but the doper label is still his.
You can speculate about Fourcade, after all up to this year he has outragously dominated for the better part of a decade. But that will remain speculation until...
as i said, what started to bother me, is his insistence on apologies. perhaps it's due to my personal attitude. i would NEVER demand an apology in a case like loginov's.it does not fit with my understanding of guilt and redemption. why ? the man by his doping hurt himself, earned the stigma and lost a lot of credibility. he surely cheated some out of prizes but hardly fourcade...what would apology achieve and in what form it should be expressed ? some will say he did not apologize enough or used the phrases they don't accept. There is no way to satisfy all 'offended.
an adult, particularly as successful as fourcade, in my book looks petty (at best) or is trying to overact ('i am therefore clean') when demanding that some fallen mortal must apologize as if they personally hurt him. the much more upstanding attitude would be to forgive but not forget as the individual had paid the dues. that's how, after all, we behave in our everyday lives with our kids spouses, friends and coworkers.
My understanding is that Fourcade isn't the only one demanding an apology. These guys spend a lot of time together so I can understand.
I have a thing about Russian dopers because collectively they play the conspiracy card and take us for idiots. A little confession would be good for the soul, just ask Armstrong!
Apologize? He served a two year ban. What else is he supposed to do? He owes you, me, and everyone else nothing. Did Johaug apologize for her doping? She didn't take ANY responsibility for getting caught 'red-handed' in 2016. Neither did Sundby. Neither did Denise Herrmann, who was caught 'red-handed' in 2007, as an 18 year old! Did Sachenbacher apologize? Did the Finns apologize in 2001? Did Kaisa Varis apologize the second time she was caught? Have the Austrians apologized for having athletes on both the xc and biathlon A team get caught for doping? Has the Italian team apologized for the Taschlers? Has the Olympiatoppen apologized for giving asthma meds to non-asthmatic athletes systematically? But I know what's coming next....'but the Russians use state doping, and that's bad! Shame on them!'
Spare us the 'holier-than-thou' hypocrisy. This is professional sport, if you hate doping so much, i suggest not watching any professional sport.
Bulls... You know some in your list did appologies, multiple times. It is bit sad (or lack of memory) that you list i.e Finns of 2001, where i.e. Myllyla did public appology testimonies, never recovered mentally from his shame, and ended his days. I would appreciate you think a moment when using such people absolutely falesly in the nationalism defence propaganda.
- Jun 22, 2010
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To frenchfry:
Just as I thought, you came up with the predictable answer. What have they been caught doing, exactly? It's all one man's (he's living in California now) words, apparently, 'allegedly.' The Canadian lawyer is just that, a lawyer. He's there for the money. CAS cleared the majority of the athletes. People like Ustiugov and Shipulin were not allowed to go to Pyeongchang for no reason. Neither WADA nor the IOC ever gave an explanation.
To your assumption that no other country has been involved in mass doping (with the assumption that the Russians did as you say):
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exum-claims-large-scale-cover-up-of-doping-positives/
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/sports/olympics-anti-doping-official-says-us-covered-up.html
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2003-04-18/exum-names-lewis-fernandez-in-doping-cover-up/1838520
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/lewis-a-drug-cheat-documents-suggest-cover-up-20030419-gdvk9s.html
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=100883&page=1
And how about something more recent?
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1064426/italy-and-athletics-top-list-of-countries-and-sports-with-most-doping-cases-in-2016
No, doping doesn't really bother me, I am a spectator, I've followed anything from xc, biathlon to track and field to the NFL, MLB, all these sports have been rife with doping..what bothers me are the double standards and the hypocrisy. If we truly want a 'clean' sport (whatever that means with all the TUE's and exemptions these days) then we have to have a zero tolerance policy and treat everyone the same.
There is a probability, perhaps a high probability that Loginov is doping. If that is the case, then there is no way that guys like Fourcade or Boe aren't doping. This isn't 'whataboutism' or something like that, it's reality. It's like back in 2006, when Armstrong's rivals were falling left and right, and people thought 'no, Lance can't be doping.' Oh really? He was just magically better than the other 19 guys in the top 20 that were found to have doped? You'd have to go far down the list of the GC in those years to find someone that maybe, perhaps, somehow, was clean. Fourcade at his peak hardly looked out of breath. He attacked whenever he felt like it and shot fast and was accurate. Even when he missed shots he would still win races, like Boe is today. The older Boe wasn't far off in 2011-2014 when he was more consistent.
Just as I thought, you came up with the predictable answer. What have they been caught doing, exactly? It's all one man's (he's living in California now) words, apparently, 'allegedly.' The Canadian lawyer is just that, a lawyer. He's there for the money. CAS cleared the majority of the athletes. People like Ustiugov and Shipulin were not allowed to go to Pyeongchang for no reason. Neither WADA nor the IOC ever gave an explanation.
To your assumption that no other country has been involved in mass doping (with the assumption that the Russians did as you say):
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exum-claims-large-scale-cover-up-of-doping-positives/
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/sports/olympics-anti-doping-official-says-us-covered-up.html
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2003-04-18/exum-names-lewis-fernandez-in-doping-cover-up/1838520
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/lewis-a-drug-cheat-documents-suggest-cover-up-20030419-gdvk9s.html
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=100883&page=1
And how about something more recent?
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1064426/italy-and-athletics-top-list-of-countries-and-sports-with-most-doping-cases-in-2016
No, doping doesn't really bother me, I am a spectator, I've followed anything from xc, biathlon to track and field to the NFL, MLB, all these sports have been rife with doping..what bothers me are the double standards and the hypocrisy. If we truly want a 'clean' sport (whatever that means with all the TUE's and exemptions these days) then we have to have a zero tolerance policy and treat everyone the same.
There is a probability, perhaps a high probability that Loginov is doping. If that is the case, then there is no way that guys like Fourcade or Boe aren't doping. This isn't 'whataboutism' or something like that, it's reality. It's like back in 2006, when Armstrong's rivals were falling left and right, and people thought 'no, Lance can't be doping.' Oh really? He was just magically better than the other 19 guys in the top 20 that were found to have doped? You'd have to go far down the list of the GC in those years to find someone that maybe, perhaps, somehow, was clean. Fourcade at his peak hardly looked out of breath. He attacked whenever he felt like it and shot fast and was accurate. Even when he missed shots he would still win races, like Boe is today. The older Boe wasn't far off in 2011-2014 when he was more consistent.
- Jun 22, 2010
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Bambino, I apologize for mentioning the Finns in respect to Myllylla. Of course I know what happened to him. It's sad.
Not sure how I am using propaganda though.
Not sure how I am using propaganda though.
- Jun 7, 2010
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Let's put it in a slightly wider context.
As I recall, at the time Loginov blamed his positive on a prostate infection treatment. I believe that the decision is up on the IBU website, so anyone interested in the case can read up on additional details.
Since 2008, apart from Loginov at least 4 other biathletes from Russia tested positive for EPO with Iourieva managing to do it twice. I will not mention the ongoing biological passport cases (and irregular values of these athletes were known about for years), other ADRVs, various other rumors about that period.
It is correct that Loginov owes nobody nothing, but at the same time given his BS explanation and very likely systematic doping culture in Russian biathlon at the time taking a bigger responsibility for the positive by admitting that the explanation was BS would probably at least help a little to change the attitudes.
Of course the obvious answer why Loginov would not apologize is because the people involved in his doping are still part of the biathlon system and any deviation from the accidental contamination (even for EPO!) / Western conspiracy / anyone elses fault but ours script is not allowed.
So again, he owes nothing, but he has not even done a small step that is within his power to be considered more worthy of trust.
As I recall, at the time Loginov blamed his positive on a prostate infection treatment. I believe that the decision is up on the IBU website, so anyone interested in the case can read up on additional details.
Since 2008, apart from Loginov at least 4 other biathletes from Russia tested positive for EPO with Iourieva managing to do it twice. I will not mention the ongoing biological passport cases (and irregular values of these athletes were known about for years), other ADRVs, various other rumors about that period.
It is correct that Loginov owes nobody nothing, but at the same time given his BS explanation and very likely systematic doping culture in Russian biathlon at the time taking a bigger responsibility for the positive by admitting that the explanation was BS would probably at least help a little to change the attitudes.
Of course the obvious answer why Loginov would not apologize is because the people involved in his doping are still part of the biathlon system and any deviation from the accidental contamination (even for EPO!) / Western conspiracy / anyone elses fault but ours script is not allowed.
So again, he owes nothing, but he has not even done a small step that is within his power to be considered more worthy of trust.
- Jun 7, 2010
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It's hilarious that mass doping in Russia is an 'assumption'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stripped_Olympic_medals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stripped_Olympic_medals
- Mar 13, 2009
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Bullsfan,
I never affirmed that Fourcade is clean (how could I know), but the difference with Loginov is that he has never been caught if he is. If anyone thinks his performances warrant suspicion, fine with me.
As to Russian state doping, you appear to give a lot of weight to conspiracy theories. Thats fine but I don't buy into it. There is a lot more there than you admit.
I thought about the US coverup when i wrote my previous post, and probably shouldn't have let it slide. The difference was, I believe, that the doping wasn't institutional but the coverup was. Never have I said the Russians are the only bad guys, it just so happens they are in the news a lot lately. Why won't they share their lab records if they have nothing to hide?
Complicated subject, but as I have often said here i don't think it is unreasonable to suspect the Russians as a group. At least for now, and I hope that changes someday soon.
I never affirmed that Fourcade is clean (how could I know), but the difference with Loginov is that he has never been caught if he is. If anyone thinks his performances warrant suspicion, fine with me.
As to Russian state doping, you appear to give a lot of weight to conspiracy theories. Thats fine but I don't buy into it. There is a lot more there than you admit.
I thought about the US coverup when i wrote my previous post, and probably shouldn't have let it slide. The difference was, I believe, that the doping wasn't institutional but the coverup was. Never have I said the Russians are the only bad guys, it just so happens they are in the news a lot lately. Why won't they share their lab records if they have nothing to hide?
Complicated subject, but as I have often said here i don't think it is unreasonable to suspect the Russians as a group. At least for now, and I hope that changes someday soon.
- Feb 20, 2010
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Re:
Loginov has been very humble and kept things on-point in interviews and discussions thus far this season, because ultimately he doesn't want to be followed with the same questions from now until eternity, and he wants to get on with his racing, for better or worse. He will perhaps always be seen as a criminal, a cheat and an outsider in the biathlon world so long as he doesn't provide some kind of formal apology to the rest of the international biathlon community, but at the same time, if he was to issue some kind of public "mea culpa" message and metaphorically get on his hands and knees in front of the likes of Fourcade and beg their forgiveness, it would be absolute PR suicide at home as well. That is perhaps why he has palmed off journalists asking him about Fourcade's comments by saying that he would like to talk that through in person with Fourcade, rather than conversing through television cameras without speaking to one another.
Let us not forget that Martin was the one who was apparently so offended by doping that he took to social media to protest the SBR wishing Loginov a happy birthday (how dare a man who has doped have a pleasant day!). And he's so offended by doping that he cannot speak of or to them, unless a microphone is present.
From the actual international team, there's Iourieva, Iaroschenko, Starykh and... that's it, isn't it? I know a few guys tested positive for EPO from the national calendar but the others from international competition I am aware of are for different things I think - Burdyga for Carphedon and Latypov for meldonium, for example. I'm pretty sure EPO doesn't figure in the Sochi stuff, nor with Ustyugov/Sleptsova from Vancouver either.roundabout said:
Well, he's between a rock and a hard place and while that is of his own making, so we don't have to sympathize with him, we can at least understand the position he's in. Russia as a whole feels singled out, being shamed and fingers pointed at it from all corners, and often from some very hypocritical (hello all those representing the USA) or very preachy or self-righteous (hello Hamza, hello Samuelsson, hello Fourcade) corners, and there is a very significant pride issue in the narrative that has been being pushed. Russia is not unreasonable in thinking that they are being singled out for blame and hung out to dry, painted as the dirty dastardly dopers of the world, allowing the façade of clean sport to be presented while not rocking the boat since most people already associated Russians with doping long before the Sochi allegations. But at the same time, it is hard to complain about a witchhunt when you are in fact a witch.
Loginov has been very humble and kept things on-point in interviews and discussions thus far this season, because ultimately he doesn't want to be followed with the same questions from now until eternity, and he wants to get on with his racing, for better or worse. He will perhaps always be seen as a criminal, a cheat and an outsider in the biathlon world so long as he doesn't provide some kind of formal apology to the rest of the international biathlon community, but at the same time, if he was to issue some kind of public "mea culpa" message and metaphorically get on his hands and knees in front of the likes of Fourcade and beg their forgiveness, it would be absolute PR suicide at home as well. That is perhaps why he has palmed off journalists asking him about Fourcade's comments by saying that he would like to talk that through in person with Fourcade, rather than conversing through television cameras without speaking to one another.
Let us not forget that Martin was the one who was apparently so offended by doping that he took to social media to protest the SBR wishing Loginov a happy birthday (how dare a man who has doped have a pleasant day!). And he's so offended by doping that he cannot speak of or to them, unless a microphone is present.
- Mar 13, 2009
- 2,932
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Two Norwegian juniors received growth hormone treatments. Apparently the treatments being administered in a hospital makes it alright.
Hopefully these treatments also control asthma, which is epedemic among Norwegian x-country skiers
http://www.ski-nordique.net/un-traitement-hormonal-pour-deux-grandes-espoirs-norvegiennes.6181346-72348.html
Hopefully these treatments also control asthma, which is epedemic among Norwegian x-country skiers
http://www.ski-nordique.net/un-traitement-hormonal-pour-deux-grandes-espoirs-norvegiennes.6181346-72348.html
- Sep 25, 2009
- 7,527
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the norwegian media is again at it - 'we have nothing to hide'.
like after sundby who said the same many times while insisting that wada review his case in absolute secret or johaug had nothing to hide when her doc lost memory and mind as to how he approved an anabolic steroid and she lied about always reading the labels.
so they had nothing to hide until it became publicly known the 2 starlets were chemically grown. the swedish reaction is so far very reserved.
in essence, what the press release tell us is this, 'if our 2 biggest young starlets didn't grow into stars naturally and fast enough we are going to help them chemically with growth hormones.... and thanks wada we had found the legal loop holes via a tue process'.
if they have nothing to hide why refuse any further comments to the questions which are certainly to follow ?
like after sundby who said the same many times while insisting that wada review his case in absolute secret or johaug had nothing to hide when her doc lost memory and mind as to how he approved an anabolic steroid and she lied about always reading the labels.
so they had nothing to hide until it became publicly known the 2 starlets were chemically grown. the swedish reaction is so far very reserved.
in essence, what the press release tell us is this, 'if our 2 biggest young starlets didn't grow into stars naturally and fast enough we are going to help them chemically with growth hormones.... and thanks wada we had found the legal loop holes via a tue process'.
if they have nothing to hide why refuse any further comments to the questions which are certainly to follow ?
- Apr 7, 2011
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=703oK0SyGOc
For those of you who speak some German. A fairly interesting docuentary about Johannes Dürr and his Doping. Caught some fire in German as i stated that some of his blood Doping actually happened in Germany with the help of Germany, though he didn't mention any names.
Also, 4 years ago Dürr was a legit medal candidat. No he's trying to qualify for Seefeld but finishes in the likes of 50th place in the Alpencup. Just Shows what Kind of difference Doping makes. And, that no one who finishes up front in xc siing and Biathlon can do so without juicing. The difference it makes is simply way too big.
For those of you who speak some German. A fairly interesting docuentary about Johannes Dürr and his Doping. Caught some fire in German as i stated that some of his blood Doping actually happened in Germany with the help of Germany, though he didn't mention any names.
Also, 4 years ago Dürr was a legit medal candidat. No he's trying to qualify for Seefeld but finishes in the likes of 50th place in the Alpencup. Just Shows what Kind of difference Doping makes. And, that no one who finishes up front in xc siing and Biathlon can do so without juicing. The difference it makes is simply way too big.
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