Downhill Showdown: Liquigas vs. BMC TdF 2012

[The Hitch]

Because Cadel did not want to tow Basso to the finish.

Why did he then?

 

[Froome19]

It seem like Hushovd is doing the tour http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hushovd-bmc-is-stronger-than-garmin
and so the poll is still applicable

I would have to say that Liquigas have a stronger downhill unit with the fact they work together really well as a team
+ sagan and nibali's downhilling> gilbert and hushovd. Also guys like cappechi are also great at downhilling and are severly underrated just look at their TTT results to see how as a team they work brilliantly and that their bike handling is terrific, as their team doesn't really have many good TimeTriallers's. Man to man Liquigas are definitely better than BMC

 

[El Pistolero]

It seem like Hushovd is doing the tour http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hushovd-bmc-is-stronger-than-garmin
and so the poll is still applicable

I would have to say that Liquigas have a stronger downhill unit with the fact they work together really well as a team
+ sagan and nibali's downhilling> gilbert and hushovd. Also guys like cappechi are also great at downhilling and are severly underrated just look at their TTT results to see how as a team they work brilliantly and that their bike handling is terrific, as their team doesn't really have many good TimeTriallers's. Man to man Liquigas are definitely better than BMC

Prove it.... BMC were second at this year's Tour TTT by the way. Where was Liqui?

 

[cineteq]

Prove it.... BMC were second at this year's Tour TTT by the way. Where was Liqui?

LOL ...who do they have last year?

Don't worry don't get out of your seat, got the answer for ya:

91 BASSO Ivan ITA
92 BODNAR Maciej POL
93 KOREN Kristijan SLO
94 LONGO BORGHINI Paolo ITA
95 OSS Daniel ITA
96 PATERSKI Maciej POL
97 SABATINI Fabio ITA
98 SZMYD Sylvester POL
99 VANOTTI Alessandro ITA

BTW the poll is a good indication who has the best team!
Actually, it was bigger gap until ACF came to visit...

 

[mb2612]

Prove it.... BMC were second at this year's Tour TTT by the way. Where was Liqui?

Not sure, but Liqui have won 3 GT time trials the past 4 years, BMC have won none.

 

[El Pistolero]

Not sure, but Liqui have won 3 GT time trials the past 4 years, BMC have won none.

BMC has only been WT since 2011

Their squad is also much stronger now than last year. Liqui can only do that at the Giro anyway, they're a fail squad at the Tour.

 

[El Pistolero]

LOL ...who do they have last year?

Don't worry don't get out of your seat, got the answer for ya:

91 BASSO Ivan ITA
92 BODNAR Maciej POL
93 KOREN Kristijan SLO
94 LONGO BORGHINI Paolo ITA
95 OSS Daniel ITA
96 PATERSKI Maciej POL
97 SABATINI Fabio ITA
98 SZMYD Sylvester POL
99 VANOTTI Alessandro ITA

BTW the poll is a good indication who has the best team!
Actually, it was bigger gap until ACF came to visit...

What makes you think their team will be much better? Replace Basso with Nibali and someone with Sagan and that will be pretty much it. BMC will be able to add Thor Hushovd(who won the TTT for Garmin) and Gilbert(not the best, but I think he can do a good TTT with a good team).

Sadly there won't be a TTT next year, so it will always remain speculation

 

[mb2612]

What makes you think their team will be much better? Replace Basso with Nibali and someone with Sagan and that will be pretty much it. BMC will be able to add Thor Hushovd(who won the TTT for Garmin) and Gilbert(not the best, but I think he can do a good TTT with a good team).

Sadly there won't be a TTT next year, so it will always remain speculation

Well, this is the team which cleaned up in the Giro 2010 TTT

131 BASSO Ivan ITA
132 NIBALI Vincenzo ITA
133 AGNOLI Valerio ITA
134 BODNAR Maciej POL
135 DALL'ANTONIA Tiziano ITA
136 KISERLOVSKI Robert CRO
137 SABATINI Fabio ITA
138 SZMYD Sylvester POL
139 VANOTTI Alessandro ITA

beating BMC by 1'21"

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, this is the team which cleaned up in the Giro 2010 TTT

131 BASSO Ivan ITA
132 NIBALI Vincenzo ITA
133 AGNOLI Valerio ITA
134 BODNAR Maciej POL
135 DALL'ANTONIA Tiziano ITA
136 KISERLOVSKI Robert CRO
137 SABATINI Fabio ITA
138 SZMYD Sylvester POL
139 VANOTTI Alessandro ITA

beating BMC by 1'21"

BMC is a lot stronger now

 

[Froome19]

Prove it.... BMC were second at this year's Tour TTT by the way. Where was Liqui?

Just my opinion i guess but you cant really compare how good a descenders riders truly are; if they're close of course I would bring sagan tds stage 3 (unbelievable after getting dropped on the climb and then gaining a good minute or so on a good descender cunego) and Nibali in this year's giro.

Also in this years giro liquigas came 4th in TTT whilst BMC were 13th
admittedly tour was not great but then Vuelta was Liquigas 2nd BMC 12th. Which backs up my claim that Liquigas riders in general are good at working together and have good bike handling skills

 

[El Pistolero]

Just my opinion i guess but you cant really compare how good a descenders riders truly are; if they're close of course I would bring sagan tds stage 3 (unbelievable after getting dropped on the climb and then gaining a good minute or so on a good descender cunego) and Nibali in this year's giro.

Also in this years giro liquigas came 4th in TTT whilst BMC were 13th
admittedly tour was not great but then Vuelta was Liquigas 2nd BMC 12th. Which backs up my claim that Liquigas riders in general are good at working together and have good bike handling skills

But this is about the Tour, not the Giro or Vuelta. BMC will send their best squad at the Tour and pulverize Liqui.

 

[cineteq]

BMC is a lot stronger now

Pisto is time to give up in your efforts to down Liquigas either as the best downhill combo or TTT team.

 

[Froome19]

But this is about the Tour, not the Giro or Vuelta. BMC will send their best squad at the Tour and pulverize Liqui.

Yes it is, but the point is that the Liquigas riders are generally good bike handlers and work well and I have a feeling that the liquigas team for the tour will be totally different to the one this year. Yet it is evident that their tour TTT was a one off, with none of the guys we've been disucssing such as Nibali, Sagan and Cappechi riding in it.
Indeed even so I expect them to get beaten by BMC at the tour but it does not disqualify the fact that their riders are evidently good at descending

 

[karlboss]

downhill TTT: BMC
downhill in a race: neither
in this stage: neither none will have any incentive to drop the other unless they reach the top of the ultimate climb in a select group and the Schlecks are there and they need to be dropped. However if on any of these stages anyone apart from Nibali and Evans hit the top of the ultimate climb with the schlecks I will be most surprised.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Pisto is time to give up in your efforts to down Liquigas either as the best downhill combo or TTT team.

It would be ridiculous to compare BMC in the 2011 Vuelta or the 2010 Giro at all considering the teams they had and the fact in the Vuelta they had no reason to really go ftw or a top result.

GIRO 2010

1 EVANS Cadel AUS
2 BOOKWALTER Brent USA
3 KOHLER Martin SUI
4 LOUDER Jeff USA
5 SANTAMBROGIO Mauro ITA
6 MURPHY John USA
7 SCHÄR Michael SUI
8 STALDER Florian SUI
9 WYSS Danilo SUI


BMC really had a hope of beating Liquigas at full stregth with that team.

VUELTA 2010

31 FRANK Mathias SUI
32 KOHLER Martin SUI
33 PHINNEY Taylor USA
34 QUINZIATO Manuel ITA
35 SANTAMBROGIO Mauro ITA
36 SANTAROMITA Ivan ITA
37 TSCHOPP Johann SUI
38 VAN AVERMAET Greg BEL
39 KROON Karsten NED

No way where they going to beat Liquigas who again fielded a very strong squad.

 

[greenedge]

Not sure, but Liqui have won 3 GT time trials the past 4 years, BMC have won none.

How did this thread start to involve TTT's?
Next year i can also imagine BMC having a better TTT than Liquigas ( if it was in the TDF ) especially now they have Cummings ( track rider ) TJVG ( young talent who is very good at ITT's ) and Hushovd ( who along with Millar powered Garmin to victory last year at the TTT )

 

[greenedge]

LOL ...who do they have last year?

Don't worry don't get out of your seat, got the answer for ya:

91 BASSO Ivan ITA
92 BODNAR Maciej POL
93 KOREN Kristijan SLO
94 LONGO BORGHINI Paolo ITA
95 OSS Daniel ITA
96 PATERSKI Maciej POL
97 SABATINI Fabio ITA
98 SZMYD Sylvester POL
99 VANOTTI Alessandro ITA

Last year the only rider that i saw other than Basso at the TDF for Liquigas was Szmyd. I also saw Sabatini as Lanterne Rouge. Oss had a few minor sprint placings and shows potential but was wasted in their line-up. I like Bodnar because of the role he did at M-SR for Sagan last year but BMC's team trumped Liquigas'.

Hincapie and Burghardt have both won TDF stages and are good classics men. Quinziato, Santamorita and Moinard helped him just enough in the mountains.

 

[greenedge]

Why did he then?

He had to by the end but at the start he was indecisive.

 

[greenedge]

Well, this is the team which cleaned up in the Giro 2010 TTT

131 BASSO Ivan ITA
132 NIBALI Vincenzo ITA
133 AGNOLI Valerio ITA
134 BODNAR Maciej POL
135 DALL'ANTONIA Tiziano ITA
136 KISERLOVSKI Robert CRO
137 SABATINI Fabio ITA
138 SZMYD Sylvester POL
139 VANOTTI Alessandro ITA

beating BMC by 1'21"

They had 4 riders who were not at the TDF and two GC leaders at the Giro.

 

[greenedge]

Yes it is, but the point is that the Liquigas riders are generally good bike handlers and work well

No one ever said they were not, it's just that riders like Evans, Gilbert and Hushovd were all named in the best descender thread.

 

[Panda Claws]

No one ever said they were not, it's just that riders like Evans, Gilbert and Hushovd were all named in the best descender thread.

Gilbert is mentioned in every thread.

 

[Froome19]

No one ever said they were not, it's just that riders like Evans, Gilbert and Hushovd were all named in the best descender thread.

Pesonally I interpreted the original question as comparing the whole teams (hence the etc) with those 3 on each team just being examples.
Therefore indeed Evans, Gilbert and Hushovd are great descenders but comparing the two teams, liquigas have a better downhill team as shown by their superior bike handling skill (TTT was just one way of showing it)
As shown by that stage in the vuelta last year where they showed as a team they are the best.
Especially as they work very well as a team better than BMC probably who will be more disorganised with Hushovd not assisting Gilbert and Evans etc.
The TTT shows how though they may not have great Time trialists due to bike handling + superior co-operation they are able to challenge with the best, two main skills needed for descending

 

[cineteq]

How did this thread start to involve TTT's?

I'm not sure how it got into this, but they're training hard their TT skills.

12 riders will train tomorrow and wednesday in velódromo de Montichiari.
http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=48155

 

[jens_attacks]

i've heard capecchi made a fool of scarponi on the descent in gp lugano,coming down like a kamikaze.bonus points.

 

[cineteq]

i've heard capecchi made a fool of scarponi on the descent in gp lugano,coming down like a kamikaze.bonus points.

"Michele Scarponi (Lampre-ISD) led the chase of Capecchi on the descent of the final climb, but when he took a tumble, it was left to Damiano Cunego to salvage his team's hard work by claiming the sprint for second ahead of the promising Enrico Battaglin."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/gp-citt-di-lugano-2012/results