Dumoulin.

Page 23 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
maltiv said:
Before EPO was introduced, most of the riders who won GTs had Dumoulin's build or similar.

It's only after the 90's that we've had lightweights destroying time trials and 80+ kgs climbing with the best.

In itself, I see nothing suspicious about a 70 kilo rider contending for a GT win. In a clean world, and with balanced parcours, I think that would be the optimal weight.
How do you know that? IIRC you weren't even born before the EPO era.

An eyeball tests would suggest that Hinault or Lemond did not have a similar build to Dumoulin.
 
Sep 12, 2015
28
0
0
his non pro training buddy was on dutch television and said dumoulin lost 3 or 4 kg for this race. so the 70+kg thats been thrown around is wrong. im a dutch casual cycling fan so im biased but I think dumoulin would be the first doping sinner that said I would be suspicious of me if I looked at myself. like he doesnt explain anything, "ive lost weight, im fresh, ive prepared for this race" etc he says nothing to take the suspicion away.

he said, I would be suspicious of me too. thats a crazy thing to say for a guilty person. the polar opposite is to be expected. diverting the attention.

Also ive heard reporters say dumoulin could be a good one for the general standings in de TdF way before he exploded here in the vuelta. what did they see that you guys didnt?
 
Re:

Cntfeelmylegs said:
his non pro training buddy was on dutch television and said dumoulin lost 3 or 4 kg for this race. so the 70+kg thats been thrown around is wrong. im a dutch casual cycling fan so im biased but I think dumoulin would be the first doping sinner that said I would be suspicious of me if I looked at myself. like he doesnt explain anything, "ive lost weight, im fresh, ive prepared for this race" etc he says nothing to take the suspicion away.

he said, I would be suspicious of me too. thats a crazy thing to say for a guilty person. the polar opposite is to be expected. diverting the attention.

Also ive heard reporters say dumoulin could be a good one for the general standings in de TdF way before he exploded here in the vuelta. what did they see that you guys didnt?
He's saying all the right things, but proven dopers have said all the right things in the past as well. I think it's 100% impossible to tell whether a rider dopes or not by what they say.

Regarding the weight loss; the obvious question (aside from the fact that he certainly doesn't look like he weighs only 66-67kg) would be how has he managed to maintain his TT power. Presumably he wasn't walking around with 4kg of spare fat before now, so where has the weight loss come from and how has he done it without sacrifcing some power?
 
Aug 11, 2012
416
0
0
Re:

Cntfeelmylegs said:
his non pro training buddy was on dutch television and said dumoulin lost 3 or 4 kg for this race. so the 70+kg thats been thrown around is wrong. im a dutch casual cycling fan so im biased but I think dumoulin would be the first doping sinner that said I would be suspicious of me if I looked at myself. like he doesnt explain anything, "ive lost weight, im fresh, ive prepared for this race" etc he says nothing to take the suspicion away.

he said, I would be suspicious of me too. thats a crazy thing to say for a guilty person. the polar opposite is to be expected. diverting the attention.

Also ive heard reporters say dumoulin could be a good one for the general standings in de TdF way before he exploded here in the vuelta. what did they see that you guys didnt?
I always wondered why you dont read it more often. Its something I would say too.

I wouldnt waste my time to deny accusations if I was 100% clean and neither if I was doped. That's actually a nice comment of Tom, he doesnt need media training.


I would not be surprised if his weight is 67 kg. I know for sure he is not 1,85m, I am 1,87 myself and met him a couple of times. My weight is 79 kg and I havent hit a bike for years. Someone smaller than me, top athlete and only 8 kg less. I dont think so.
 
Sep 12, 2015
28
0
0
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Cntfeelmylegs said:
his non pro training buddy was on dutch television and said dumoulin lost 3 or 4 kg for this race. so the 70+kg thats been thrown around is wrong. im a dutch casual cycling fan so im biased but I think dumoulin would be the first doping sinner that said I would be suspicious of me if I looked at myself. like he doesnt explain anything, "ive lost weight, im fresh, ive prepared for this race" etc he says nothing to take the suspicion away.

he said, I would be suspicious of me too. thats a crazy thing to say for a guilty person. the polar opposite is to be expected. diverting the attention.

Also ive heard reporters say dumoulin could be a good one for the general standings in de TdF way before he exploded here in the vuelta. what did they see that you guys didnt?
He's saying all the right things, but proven dopers have said all the right things in the past as well. I think it's 100% impossible to tell whether a rider dopes or not by what they say.

Regarding the weight loss; the obvious question (aside from the fact that he certainly doesn't look like he weighs only 66-67kg) would be how has he managed to maintain his TT power. Presumably he wasn't walking around with 4kg of spare fat before now, so where has the weight loss come from and how has he done it without sacrifcing some power?
i think the standard "right thing" response to doping accusations is to categorically deny, "my body is a temple, i would never do that. theres reasons why im performing this well" not "beats me, but im fresh, lets do this"

with the weight im going by what his buddy told the reporter. with caveat that 70kg reported is data which includes his weightloss. like i said im just casual, but maybe 3kg weightloss in the last week of a gc means nothing relative to the field his racing that time trial with. the topguns werent really there right to see what he wouldve lost vs them
 
Sep 12, 2015
28
0
0
also, if you look at his results on wiki i feel you can see the progression. from early in his pro career he has top 10 finishes in multiday races with climbs mixed with time trial results. though I dont really know how to clasiffy winning the mountain jersey in things like vuelta andalucie but it has to mean something. in the tour he did 41-33-DNF who knows what he wouldve did if he didnt fall. maybe around 20th or better? and I would assume these are comfortable finishes and he isnt torturing himself since his team needed him on the flats for the sprint. I would say even that it doesnt take away much from those tour results if he was burning himself in the mountains AND riding his ass off on the flats. his "questionable" recovery mustve been great already.
 
Apr 3, 2011
2,301
0
0
Eurosport: "physiologically he is where he should be" (after realizing Doomulin is almost of the same weight/height as Vroom)
 
Re: Re:

"Jeff"":3gmpoyv1][quote="Cntfeelmylegs said:
his non pro training buddy was on dutch television and said dumoulin lost 3 or 4 kg for this race. so the 70+kg thats been thrown around is wrong. im a dutch casual cycling fan so im biased but I think dumoulin would be the first doping sinner that said I would be suspicious of me if I looked at myself. like he doesnt explain anything, "ive lost weight, im fresh, ive prepared for this race" etc he says nothing to take the suspicion away.

he said, I would be suspicious of me too. thats a crazy thing to say for a guilty person. the polar opposite is to be expected. diverting the attention.

Also ive heard reporters say dumoulin could be a good one for the general standings in de TdF way before he exploded here in the vuelta. what did they see that you guys didnt?
I always wondered why you dont read it more often. Its something I would say too.

I wouldnt waste my time to deny accusations if I was 100% clean and neither if I was doped. That's actually a nice comment of Tom, he doesnt need media training.


I would not be surprised if his weight is 67 kg. I know for sure he is not 1,85m, I am 1,87 myself and met him a couple of times. My weight is 79 kg and I havent hit a bike for years. Someone smaller than me, top athlete and only 8 kg less. I dont think so.[/quote]
Froome says stuff like that all the time. People remember Armstrong now as a cocky brat, but "his I survived cancer, I know the value of life, I wouldn't break the hearts of millions" illness was PR gold. He openly courted the attention and a eviscerated critics. Who would have done that unless they were "100%" clean?

Cycling is such a jingoistic sport. No real teams, so fans mostly root for the countrymen. Funnily enough while you expect it from Americans, most smart Americans seem to at least understand their natural biases. They know they're suspicious, so to speak.
 
1) Dopers can still have bad days. Dopers can still get tired. Dopers can still get dropped. Dopers can still be anything from bad to mediocre to great riders.
2) A bad performance doesn't erase any previous good performances.
 
Jul 6, 2015
50
0
0
Re:

hrotha said:
1) Dopers can still have bad days. Dopers can still get tired. Dopers can still get dropped. Dopers can still be anything from bad to mediocre to great riders.
2) A bad performance doesn't erase any previous good performances.
This is the ultimate clinic post. I covers everything that proves someone is a dirty, filthy, cheating doper.
 
Apr 20, 2012
6,321
0
0
Re:

hrotha said:
1) Dopers can still have bad days. Dopers can still get tired. Dopers can still get dropped. Dopers can still be anything from bad to mediocre to great riders.
2) A bad performance doesn't erase any previous good performances.
Right on.

Had to laugh when Landa bridged to Aru like he was doing a trainingride though. He will kick ass on magical gains.
 
Re: Re:

Fearless Greg Lemond said:
hrotha said:
1) Dopers can still have bad days. Dopers can still get tired. Dopers can still get dropped. Dopers can still be anything from bad to mediocre to great riders.
2) A bad performance doesn't erase any previous good performances.
Right on.

Had to laugh when Landa bridged to Aru like he was doing a trainingride though. He will kick ass on magical gains.
While Aru was spitting blood to try and not to lose more than a handful of secs on yesterday finale, Landa was barely riding his bike getting to the finish line some 10 mins later.
 
Jul 29, 2012
11,703
3
0
Froome had a terrible day in this vuelta too, he's clean guys.

Armstrong too, contador aswell. All had bad days, let's move on.
 
Sep 12, 2015
28
0
0
he did what you guys thought a non doped dumoulin would do though. he cracked . like i understand scepticism (and my own bias) but this lessens the likelyhood he is doping. the likelyhood doesnt remain the same after this
 
Jul 29, 2012
11,703
3
0
Re:

Cntfeelmylegs said:
he did what you guys thought a non doped dumoulin would do though. he cracked . like i understand scepticism (and my own bias) but this lessens the likelyhood he is doping. the likelyhood doesnt remain the same after this
No it doesn't, not at all. Many doped riders had bad day on really bad times, look at Landis. This doesn't mean anything.
 
Re: Re:

Miburo said:
Cntfeelmylegs said:
he did what you guys thought a non doped dumoulin would do though. he cracked . like i understand scepticism (and my own bias) but this lessens the likelyhood he is doping. the likelyhood doesnt remain the same after this
No it doesn't, not at all. Many doped riders had bad day on really bad times, look at Landis. This doesn't mean anything.
There is a difference between having a bad day and cracking. Landis was super strong in 06, had a bad day and bounced back again. Ditto Armstrong, was it in 00. A bad day is just that.

Dumoulin has been punching above his weight this Vuelta and finally cracked as expected. He was barely clinging on in some of the previous mountain stages conceding time here and there. No huge time losses but it always seemed likely to happen and it did. Cobo didn't crack nor Froome the same year, Horner didn't crack.
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
0
0
Re:

Cntfeelmylegs said:
he did what you guys thought a non doped dumoulin would do though. he cracked . like i understand scepticism (and my own bias) but this lessens the likelyhood he is doping. the likelyhood doesnt remain the same after this
yeah maybe from 0.99 to 0.98
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY