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Dumoulin.

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For those who haven't seen this, from viewtopic.php?p=2113501#p2113501

A Minute faster than Quintana in 2014


Santuario di Oropa
2017:6,7 km@8%---17:37---average speed 22.82 km/h(Tom Dumoulin)
2014:6,7 km@8%---18:30---average speed 21.73 km/h(Nairo Quintana)
---19:51---average speed 20.25 km/h(Battaglin-Cataldo)
2007:6,7 km@8%---18:12---average speed 22.09 km/h(Leonardo Piepoli)
1999:6,7 km@8%---17:04---average speed 23.55 km/h(Marco Pantani)-RECORD
1993:6,7 km@8%---18:12---average speed 22.09 km/h(Piotr Ugrumov)
---19:44---average speed 20.37 km/h(Massimo Ghirotto)

Mind boggling...
 
Re:

Põhja Konn said:
Can't remember the exact stage and year, but I recall Indurain riding everyone off his wheel one-by-one on shallowish gradient climb during one of his victorious Tours. This today was eerily similar.

The numbers which have come out thus far seem to suggest Quintana is close to his best, which was supported by his obvious disbelief when seeing Dumoulin coming closer and closer.

As the real mountain stages are still to come, we cannot really say yet how far forward Dumoulin has actually come, but getting so close to Pantani's time is impossible to overlook. Specially as the latter was effectively sprinting all the way up the climb after his mechanical. Nature of the stage certainly helped Tom, but still this was beyond believable.
Maybe you are refering to La Plagne TdF 1995
 
Re:

therealthing said:
No way is he the same weight as Froome. Ok, he doesn't look quite as stocky as in the equally suspicious 2015 Vuelta, but nonetheless he is bigger than Froome by a long way.
05.20.2017-09.52.png
05.20.2017-09.53.png


Supposedly Chris Froome is slightly taller than Tom Dumoulin, as seen here.

As for how much they actually weigh, that's a closely guarded secret by team Sky. We may never know how much he really weighs.
 
Re: Re:

Irondan said:
therealthing said:
No way is he the same weight as Froome. Ok, he doesn't look quite as stocky as in the equally suspicious 2015 Vuelta, but nonetheless he is bigger than Froome by a long way.
05.20.2017-09.52.png
05.20.2017-09.53.png


Supposedly Chris Froome is slightly taller than Tom Dumoulin, as seen here.

As for how much they actually weigh, that's a closely guarded secret by team Sky. We may never know how much he really weighs.

Froome probably varies his weight in a GT. 63 for a MTF. 66-67 when there's a TT.
Same goes for Domoulin. No way is he 69 Kgs going up there today

As for looks, the Bone Structure and density play a vital role. Its possible that Froome has a heavier skeletal system than Major Tom
 
Re: Re:

Irondan said:
therealthing said:
No way is he the same weight as Froome. Ok, he doesn't look quite as stocky as in the equally suspicious 2015 Vuelta, but nonetheless he is bigger than Froome by a long way.
05.20.2017-09.52.png
05.20.2017-09.53.png


Supposedly Chris Froome is slightly taller than Tom Dumoulin, as seen here.

As for how much they actually weigh, that's a closely guarded secret by team Sky. We may never know how much he really weighs.

Yet he put himself through physiological tests and we got his weight...not very good at keeping secrets it seems...
 
Re: Re:

rick james said:
Irondan said:
therealthing said:
No way is he the same weight as Froome. Ok, he doesn't look quite as stocky as in the equally suspicious 2015 Vuelta, but nonetheless he is bigger than Froome by a long way.
05.20.2017-09.52.png
05.20.2017-09.53.png


Supposedly Chris Froome is slightly taller than Tom Dumoulin, as seen here.

As for how much they actually weigh, that's a closely guarded secret by team Sky. We may never know how much he really weighs.

Yet he put himself through physiological tests and we got his weight...not very good at keeping secrets it seems...

That wasn't his GT weight.
 
Re: Re:

red_flanders said:
therealthing said:
No way is he the same weight as Froome. Ok, he doesn't look quite as stocky as in the equally suspicious 2015 Vuelta, but nonetheless he is bigger than Froome by a long way.

I think Dumoulin looks bigger because he has a different build. His shoulders are broader, or at least not as hunched over.

The broadest shoulders of the peloton are Kruijswijk's and he still looks a lot skinnier than muscle man Tomfromthemill
 
Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Has Froome said what he weighs in at in peak shape?
2015 test weight: 69.9kg
2015 Tour de France weight: 67kg
2007 test weight: 75.6kg
2015 VO2 max: 84.6
VO2 max correlating to 2015 Tour weight: 88.2
2007 VO2 max: 80.2
2015 peak power: 525 watts
2015 threshold (20-40 minutes): 419 watts
2015 watts-per-kilogram: 5.98
2015 Tour watts-per-kilogram: 6.25w/kg
2007 peak power: 540 watts
2007 threshold (20-40 minutes): 420 watts
 
Jan 13, 2014
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Re: Re:

silvergrenade said:
Irondan said:
therealthing said:
No way is he the same weight as Froome. Ok, he doesn't look quite as stocky as in the equally suspicious 2015 Vuelta, but nonetheless he is bigger than Froome by a long way.
05.20.2017-09.52.png
05.20.2017-09.53.png


Supposedly Chris Froome is slightly taller than Tom Dumoulin, as seen here.

As for how much they actually weigh, that's a closely guarded secret by team Sky. We may never know how much he really weighs.

Froome probably varies his weight in a GT. 63 for a MTF. 66-67 when there's a TT.
Same goes for Domoulin. No way is he 69 Kgs going up there today

As for looks, the Bone Structure and density play a vital role. Its possible that Froome has a heavier skeletal system than Major Tom

bone density is really low, skeleton weights around 3 kg
 
Race form froome is 65kgs at best. Likely less.

Down the line someone made the relevant point that a constant pace effort is ideal as a pacing strategy. Agreed, with the addition that in the end one can go a couple minutes deep into the red. For instance 10k running wrs have followed this pattern quite strictly - but, curiously, primarily since the 1990s on. Ross Tucker had an excellent post about this a forthnight or so ago. So one might want to give some thought to what this point about even pacing actually implies in pro sport context. It is not impossible to argue that epo made it a reality there. No answer here. But clearly the strategy works IF the athlete has the oomph.

One can also argue with good reason that today dumu followed this strategy more than quintana did. Accelerations and fluctuations in pace come with a physical cost, ie induce more fatigue than an even paced effort, even if two hypothetical riders clock in with identical times. So in this sense, advantage dumu.

But does the even pacedness lend credibility to cleans?

Not in my book. Premises and circumstances matter. I assume quintana is a huge talent on an excellent program and one of the best climbers in a decade or two. Ditto about dumoulins talent. Now, he beat quintana on his turf.

As Homer Simpson demanded from his brain, "explain how".
 
Re: Re:

Guybrush said:
silvergrenade said:
Irondan said:
therealthing said:
No way is he the same weight as Froome. Ok, he doesn't look quite as stocky as in the equally suspicious 2015 Vuelta, but nonetheless he is bigger than Froome by a long way.
05.20.2017-09.52.png
05.20.2017-09.53.png


Supposedly Chris Froome is slightly taller than Tom Dumoulin, as seen here.

As for how much they actually weigh, that's a closely guarded secret by team Sky. We may never know how much he really weighs.

Froome probably varies his weight in a GT. 63 for a MTF. 66-67 when there's a TT.
Same goes for Domoulin. No way is he 69 Kgs going up there today

As for looks, the Bone Structure and density play a vital role. Its possible that Froome has a heavier skeletal system than Major Tom

bone density is really low, skeleton weights around 3 kg
A normal google search will tell you that skeleton weighs around 15% of the total mass of the body.
So, for a 100 kg guy, the skeleton will be around 15kg
 
Re:

meat puppet said:
Race form froome is 65kgs at best. Likely less.

Down the line someone made the relevant point that a constant pace effort is ideal as a pacing strategy. Agreed, with the addition that in the end one can go a couple minutes deep into the red. For instance 10k running wrs have followed this pattern quite strictly - but, curiously, primarily since the 1990s on. Ross Tucker had ab excellent post about this at forthnight or so ago. So one might want to give some thought to what this point about even pacing actually implies. It is not impossible to argue that epo made it a reality. No answer here. But clearly the strategy works IF the athlete has the oomph.

One can also argue with good reason that today dumu followed this strategy more than quintana did. Accelerations and fluctuations in pace come with a physical cost, ie induce more fatigue than an even paced effort, even if two hypothetical riders clock in with identical times. So in this sense, advantage dumu.

But does the even pacedness lend credibility to cleans?

Not in my book. Premises and circumstances matter. I assume quintana is a huge talent on an excellent program and one of the best climbers in a decade or two. Ditto about dumoulins talent. Now, he beat quintana on his turf.

As Homer Simpson demanded from his brain, "explain how".

Used Cortisone to reduce weight, trained extremely hard(better than his competition) with micro dosing EPO, saved some Blood Bags and put his huge engine to use.
 
Re:

webvan said:
For those who haven't seen this, from viewtopic.php?p=2113501#p2113501

A Minute faster than Quintana in 2014


Santuario di Oropa
2017:6,7 km@8%---17:37---average speed 22.82 km/h(Tom Dumoulin)
2014:6,7 km@8%---18:30---average speed 21.73 km/h(Nairo Quintana)
---19:51---average speed 20.25 km/h(Battaglin-Cataldo)
2007:6,7 km@8%---18:12---average speed 22.09 km/h(Leonardo Piepoli)
1999:6,7 km@8%---17:04---average speed 23.55 km/h(Marco Pantani)-RECORD
1993:6,7 km@8%---18:12---average speed 22.09 km/h(Piotr Ugrumov)
---19:44---average speed 20.37 km/h(Massimo Ghirotto)

Mind boggling...

He is coming close to Pantani's time. That would be a concern. Let's wait for the third week.
 
Tom D. opened some eyes, today. Very Indurainesque. Still, I think he's nowhere near Froome in terms of the ridiculousness of his transformation/progression. You could say that at age 26, both riders reached a comparable level, but compare the two riders at 24 and there is a vast difference.