Dumoulin.

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

do you realize how much power it does take to win one minute over the rest of the field in TT? phew.
1,85 cm, 69 kgs.. and outclimbing mountain goats... he should rather win MSM, PR and RVV two years in a row, that would look less suspicious.

The wind conditions changed, most late starters had a quite good result

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

do you realize how much power it does take to win one minute over the rest of the field in TT? phew.
1,85 cm, 69 kgs.. and outclimbing mountain goats... he should rather win MSM, PR and RVV two years in a row, that would look less suspicious.

The wind conditions changed, most late starters had a quite good result

I would not believe Piti as he is full of it. Is there any other source. Dumoulin mentioned nothing about wind.

 

[WillemS]

Move along, nothing to see here.

Move along.

 

[hrotha]

Today wasn't particularly suspicious. This was consistent with his pre-Vuelta level.

 

[the sceptic]

if you want to compare to shorter stage races or GT's where he was taking it easy for several mountain stages before the ITT then yeah sure.

 

["Jeff"]

Re:

Too bad the last 10km had a little climb and descent. Not much time to win there for Dumoulin. Those glowing strokes were great for him.

Today wasn't particularly suspicious. This was consistent with his pre-Vuelta level.

Please, no common sense here. Thanks

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":2w1bj6n7]

Please, no common sense here. Thanks[/quote]

The common sense in cycling is that GT contenders (and the rest) are doped.

When did that change?

Oh yeah when a fellow countryman starts to win.........

 

[pastronef]

https://www.twitter.com/julienpretotRTR/status/641639032942936065

 

[roundabout]

https://www.twitter.com/julienpretotRTR/status/641639032942936065

I chuckled at how Pretot's point is being collectively missed

 

[pastronef]

https://www.twitter.com/julienpretotRTR/status/641639032942936065

I chuckled at how Pretot's point is being collectively missed

me too.
people not getting it and wondering about Dumoulin's possible role if he rode for Team Sky

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Today wasn't particularly suspicious. This was consistent with his pre-Vuelta level.

A level which was already pretty suspicious, no?

Being the third best time-triallist in the world (second best now I guess that Wiggins has pretty much retired), and now beating a field including convicted dopers by well over a minute, despite having gone deep into the red numerous times in the previous days, isn't particularly suspicious?

 

[hrotha]

I'm not sure I get his point either. Is it "Imagine how much faster he'd go at Sky", or "Imagine what kind of innuendo we'd be hearing if he was at Sky"?

Being the third best time-triallist in the world (second best now I guess that Wiggins has pretty much retired), and now beating a field including convicted dopers by well over a minute, despite having gone deep into the red numerous times in the previous days, isn't particularly suspicious?

No, it's not particularly suspicious. It's par of the course for pro cycling. It doesn't stand out. Whether or not it can be believed to be clean (and I believe it isn't) wouldn't depend on Dumoulin per se, but on what state you believe pro cycling to be right now.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

I'm not sure I get his point either. Is it "Imagine how much faster he'd go at Sky", or "Imagine what kind of innuendo we'd be hearing if he was at Sky"?

yep
"imagine the party on twitter if he rode for Sky"

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I'm not sure I get his point either. Is it "Imagine how much faster he'd go at Sky", or "Imagine what kind of innuendo we'd be hearing if he was at Sky"?

Being the third best time-triallist in the world (second best now I guess that Wiggins has pretty much retired), and now beating a field including convicted dopers by well over a minute, despite having gone deep into the red numerous times in the previous days, isn't particularly suspicious?

No, it's not particularly suspicious. It's par of the course for pro cycling. It doesn't stand out. Whether or not it can be believed to be clean (and I believe it isn't) wouldn't depend on Dumoulin per se, but on what state you believe pro cycling to be right now.

So you don't believe it's clean, but you don't believe it's particularly suspicious?

All I'm saying is that there should be clinic scrutiny on his performances in time trials already (arguably the discipline where doping is most advantageous). His new found climbing is obviously suspicious as well, but shouldn't make his existing TT skills any less open to scrutiny.

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":10a1dgp3]

Please, no common sense here. Thanks

The common sense in cycling is that GT contenders (and the rest) are doped.

When did that change?

Oh yeah when a fellow countryman starts to win......... [/quote]I can already see you sitting in front of your television with a bucket of popcorn. It must be a great time watching cycling together with you. No kidding.

 

[SeriousSam]

I don't think there is much to scrutinize about his time trials. The better the performance, the greater the likely contribution of PEDs to that performance. As always in sports.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure I get his point either. Is it "Imagine how much faster he'd go at Sky", or "Imagine what kind of innuendo we'd be hearing if he was at Sky"?

yep
"imagine the party on twitter if he rode for Sky"

Imagine how many bots would be trolling this thread if he was british

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I don't think there is much to scrutinize about his time trials. The better the performance, the greater the likely contribution of PEDs to that performance. As always in sports.

I agee with this to a large extent, but with that attitude we might as well shut down the clinic then, you could say the same thing on pretty much every thread in here. There are still degrees of performance that we can discuss; eg.the extent to which a rider is naturally talented or has a great position that we can discuss, or whether they are likely doping for recovery or on a full programme.

I think his time trial today shows a development in his performance. He's never shown the ability to put in such a time trial after battling for GC (obviously!). To beat relatively fresh TT specialists who would have been targetting this stage by such a comprehensive margin is pretty suspicious to me.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure I get his point either. Is it "Imagine how much faster he'd go at Sky", or "Imagine what kind of innuendo we'd be hearing if he was at Sky"?

yep
"imagine the party on twitter if he rode for Sky"

Imagine how many bots would be trolling this thread if he was british

that too.

 

[bebellion2]

Re: Re:

I think his time trial today shows a development in his performance. He's never shown the ability to put in such a time trial after battling for GC (obviously!). To beat relatively fresh TT specialists who would have been targetting this stage by such a comprehensive margin is pretty suspicious to me.

I don't think he was really battling. He looked pretty fresh after each stage during interviews and the time gaps kinda proved he was taking it easy. At least after what we've seen him do on his first stage win, that's where he gave his all.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I think his time trial today shows a development in his performance. He's never shown the ability to put in such a time trial after battling for GC (obviously!). To beat relatively fresh TT specialists who would have been targetting this stage by such a comprehensive margin is pretty suspicious to me.

I don't think he was really battling. He looked pretty fresh after each stage during interviews and the time gaps kinda proved he was taking it easy. At least after what we've seen him do on his first stage win, that's where he gave his all.

It's bizarre enough that he has been able to limit his losses to such an extent on the mountain stages as it is; if he has managed to do it while not battling and while holding something back for the TT then it's utterly ridiculous.

 

[hrotha]

You know who else didn't battle? His rivals. As in, they held hands instead of making the mountains selective.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

You know who else didn't battle? His rivals. As in, they held hands instead of making the mountains selective.

Yeah right. Selective enough for proven climbers like Valverde, Quintana, Froome, Pozzovivo, Moreno etc.. to be dropped on several occasions; but not enough for Dumoulin to lose more than a few seconds here and there.

 

[the sceptic]

it's clearly 2012 again. Everyone missed their peaks and took it easy in the mountains.

 

[wendybnt]

Missed today's stage. Is he doing a Wiggins?