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bianchigirl said:
beroepsrenner said:
Part of the "problem" is that Lance is bigger than cycling in the minds of many. That doesn't mean better, or more important, it means bigger. Take a look at the biggest stories and most coverage in this year. And this applies not just to website forum banter. The media, and websites, and casual fans, and mainstream news covered Lance's comeback as it's own story. His broken collarbone was covered as it's own story. His participation in the Giro was covered as it's own story, during that race, a camera was always on him, all the time, often at the expense of top GC contenders or breakaway riders. During that time, Astana's financial woes, and Lance's search for new sponsorship was covered as it's own story. At the Tour, both Lance, and the competition with AC was covered as it's own story, more than the race itself - which had very little racing action anyway.
I mean, take a look at his entire season. He won two races. The Nevada City classic - racing against a bunch of Cat 1's. And the Leadville 100 - a non-pro mountain bike race. That's it. And yet, he has been covered more than the sport itself. More than Contador, more than Menchov, more than anything else, or anyone else. Probably all of them put together.
Bero laments about all the talk about Lance on this forum. But it's not the "haters" that want to talk about him. They by and large want him to go away and talk about real racing. It's often counter to all the media saturation of Lance. As that's what most of the casual fans want, don't they? A lot of threads and posts by the likes of BlackCat, Race Radio, BroDeal, TFF, etc. are often in counter argument to claims on Lance's greatness, and Lances proported riding clean.
But the media talk isn't going to go away. It will in circles like these when Lance finally does retire, or rides so poorly that he's a complete and total non-factor. And that's certainly what Lance wants. It also sells more Lance stuff and more advertising at the same time for all involved.
And until that happens, the media will willingly suspend their critical faculties - which doesn't mean that the rest of us have to.
bianchigirl said:
The main problem is that the mainstream sports media in the English speaking world dont know jack about cycling and tend to jump on the band wagon with each other, creating a snowball effect. They like to play on the cancer survivor returns to win the TDF theme. This is what I am getting at when I say that his story appeals to people with no knowledge of the sport and has, by default, made a much wider audience in the English speaking countries more aware of it than what existed previously. Along with wider acceptance, also comes wider sponsor possibilities. The last thing the UCI needs is for someone like LA to be exposed as a fraud. If it wasnt for the fact that cycling is an established sport with a rich history then some of the scandels that have occurred in recent years would have it right down there with professional wrestling in the credibility stakes
If you were able to get to know all the pro peleton you would probably find that there are worse dopers and more obnoxious personalities than LA. Its just that he gets so much media attention that everyone is more aware of his character flaws. This whole thread is really just recycling stuff thats been done to death already. Hinault was just as egocentric and no dought in the next few years another one will come along to fill LA's place.
Totally agree - but would extend the criticism of english language sports media to include comment on the quality of reporting in english language cycling media ... Recently a couple of friends and myself were actually talking about this - citing the demise of Winning, the dumbing down and americanisation of VeloNews and the drop in quality of CN ...beroepsrenner said:
My eyes were really opened when I recently picked up a copy of Planete Cyclisme - a French cycling magazine. Sure, there was a degree of parochialism in it, but in general the articles were much more in depth and didn't seem as worried about offending sponsors and stars as the english language media has become ... After sitting through Versus miserable excuse for tour coverage, the level of reporting and analysis in the August issue (which naturally enough covered the Tour) was a breath of fresh air ...
beroepsrenner said:
+1.......... I will add though, that unfortunately, it is not just sports media but media in general that are guilty of this - especially the television media. Every story has been dumbed down so much that it is completely inaccurate. I strongly believe that history will look back on these times very unfavorably on the media and the blind following of everything that they say.
Good to have you back. We have lost some good forists. We don't want to loose any more.franciep10 said:
Jounalists never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Rarely can I remember being interviewed by a newspaper reporter and then reading the finished article without finding embelished facts and quotes used out of context. It wouldnt really matter if it wasnt for the fact that the peasants believe every word they read.
There's no real journalism anymore, papers simply print press releases (unchecked) and chase interviews with the big celebrities - the Guardian puff piece earlier in the year was a particular disgrace coming from a paper with a history of investigative journalism. Add in the threat of a getting sued by Carter Ruck for a monster payout and you'll find that the media (in the UK at least) has been effectively neutered and neutralised. When papers start printing the Twitter ramblings of Armstrong as gospel truth then you know there's no hope.
Fortunately, as has been pointed out, this doesn't seem to be so prevalent outside the English speaking media.
Fortunately, as has been pointed out, this doesn't seem to be so prevalent outside the English speaking media.
Bero, I'm well aware that there are worse dopers and more obnoxious personalities than Armstrong, but none of them have bullied their way to the forefront of the sport and demand to be viewed as it's figurehead and potential saviour. The American sports model that Armstrong favours when he attempts to take over the sport is neither the most appropriate or most effective one for the sport. Concentrate power in the hands of the team owners like Armstrong?
The reason he attracts so much flack is because he sets himself up for it. The Badger would never have bleated on about how clean he was and threatened to sue left right and centre. He'd have laughed, maybe flattened you and got on with his job. The 'I'm clean' mantra set against the treatment of Bassons and Simeoni, the unsavoury associations going right back to Eddy B and the plehtora of other evidence has merely served to be itterly divisive and sink the sport's image in the toilet. Armstrong is like a lightning rod for doping rumour and allegation.
As for his story bringing the sport to wider attention - is it the sport that has attracted wider attention or Lance Armstrong? Most people in the UK know Chris Hoy but they aren't tuning in in their droves to watch traqck cycling. The incidental attention to the sport is casual at best. I'd love it to be true that Armstrong had made the sport mainstream but look at the reporting: "in stage 1 of the Tour de Bumfluff, Lance Armstrong was 139th and said it was the hardest stage he'd ever ridden and he had great concerns about his personal safety and that of the Rwandan guy he'd like to have a beer with. Oh, and some guy we've never heard of finished 1st". So does he attract attention to the sport or his own celebrity? You know the answer as well as I do.
The reason he attracts so much flack is because he sets himself up for it. The Badger would never have bleated on about how clean he was and threatened to sue left right and centre. He'd have laughed, maybe flattened you and got on with his job. The 'I'm clean' mantra set against the treatment of Bassons and Simeoni, the unsavoury associations going right back to Eddy B and the plehtora of other evidence has merely served to be itterly divisive and sink the sport's image in the toilet. Armstrong is like a lightning rod for doping rumour and allegation.
As for his story bringing the sport to wider attention - is it the sport that has attracted wider attention or Lance Armstrong? Most people in the UK know Chris Hoy but they aren't tuning in in their droves to watch traqck cycling. The incidental attention to the sport is casual at best. I'd love it to be true that Armstrong had made the sport mainstream but look at the reporting: "in stage 1 of the Tour de Bumfluff, Lance Armstrong was 139th and said it was the hardest stage he'd ever ridden and he had great concerns about his personal safety and that of the Rwandan guy he'd like to have a beer with. Oh, and some guy we've never heard of finished 1st". So does he attract attention to the sport or his own celebrity? You know the answer as well as I do.
bianchigirl said:
Yes. You are absolutely right in what you say and I have never pretended that LA is more than what he really is. Alpe understands what I was trying to say when i used the word icon. Due to the ignorant reporting cycling gets in Australia, LA is more well known than the sport itself. When he turned up here for the TDU he was in the papers and on the TV every day. Aside from SBS the only time cycling makes it onto the mainstream tv networks is when there is a doping scandel or some sensational crash occurs. The comments made re cycling by the sports presenters on these networks is a joke. The only cyclists they have ever heard of is McEwen, Evans and Armstrong and the only race they know is the TDF.
I don't really "bash" Armstrong. It may sound weird to say, but I dont really have a big problem with his doping. I dislike him for being a cheesy hypocrit, bully, and general ***.
unsheath said:
Add me to that list ......
I was a big LA supporter before the comeback, but Lance himself changed my mind with his recent behavior alone. Also, the fact surounding the situation were eye-opening.
sars1981 said:
the problem being he won the TDF 7 times. that gets him big props from all
the bootlickers all over the world. bero is right in that, a positive for la would
be bad for the pro side. i like pro bike racing, so i do not want it destroyed to save itself. in a couple of years this will not be an issue anyway. methinks the
uci hope so.
As one who has worked in broadcasting, I have to comment on a few things.
First, there are very tight budgets at almost every station and every network in both broadcasting, and in nearly all print media today. So they are all doing what they can to keep their jobs, and sell whatever they possibly can. Yes, it's a real shame that they don't cover more, but it's sort of the way it is.
Now, let's look at the flip side of this. At no other time in history has so much cycling been covered in featured. We now have networks such as Versus, NBC Universal in the US that covers a great deal of cycling. The same goes abroad in other countries. The internet is now so big, and webcasting of such high quality, that races you never could have before seen are now possible for hard core cyclists to view. There are also sites like CyclingNews, VeloNews, and many more, that feature nothing but coverage of the sport, down to domestic races across the planet.
So yes, it' sucks that the big networks and periodicals know almost only of Lance, and feature Lance, and that even bleeds down to the level of the Giro showing him constantly on TV. But never before have we had the access to the sport that we do.
And while I don't care for Lance, imagine what we'd be subjected to if Ricco were racing and won the Tour this year?
Glad to see you back Franciep10.
First, there are very tight budgets at almost every station and every network in both broadcasting, and in nearly all print media today. So they are all doing what they can to keep their jobs, and sell whatever they possibly can. Yes, it's a real shame that they don't cover more, but it's sort of the way it is.
Now, let's look at the flip side of this. At no other time in history has so much cycling been covered in featured. We now have networks such as Versus, NBC Universal in the US that covers a great deal of cycling. The same goes abroad in other countries. The internet is now so big, and webcasting of such high quality, that races you never could have before seen are now possible for hard core cyclists to view. There are also sites like CyclingNews, VeloNews, and many more, that feature nothing but coverage of the sport, down to domestic races across the planet.
So yes, it' sucks that the big networks and periodicals know almost only of Lance, and feature Lance, and that even bleeds down to the level of the Giro showing him constantly on TV. But never before have we had the access to the sport that we do.
And while I don't care for Lance, imagine what we'd be subjected to if Ricco were racing and won the Tour this year?
Glad to see you back Franciep10.
Alpe d'Huez said:
Agree but at the same time Journalistic integrity costs no more than a slanted story. Remember Rather? his excuse when presented with the facts that proved his story false " I still believe in the story" WTF?
Talk about letting personal bias affect your objectivity.
The media has become purely an outlet for paid publicists to get out their story. That is a factor in why people are going to other media.
My brother in law was in newspapers for decades and a big reason it is a dinousaur the newspapers are trying to pander to people who dont read newspapers. So they alienate what little readers they still have.
TV does the same thing, they change programming to appeal to people who dont watch tv & then they lose viewers.
If you slant your news, get away from fact based reporting and replacing it with a mixture of rumour, speculation and publicty whoring all you end up with is jerry Springer mud wrestling Perez Hilton while interviewing Madonna about her opinion on religions of the world...
bianchigirl said:
Looking at the positive side of that, as long as they present twitter ramblings unedited and as the twitterer's own words, quoting Twitter means we're at least verifiably being presented with somebody's unadulterated words.
That's an advance on the past when interviews end up rephrased and embellished by the journo.
All that said, I'd agree that news media look terminally compromised now. The PR army outnumbers journalists well and truly - the former get paid well and have resources and time, the latter don't and are forced into a format.
BanProCycling said:
I would like to thank you for what have written on this forum. Although it is dominated by libellous conspiracy theorists who hate excellence and believe anyone who has achieved it has done so by cheating, your accurate and sensible rebuttals have made spending some time here less annoying.
Cobber said:
sars1981 said:
I venture to say that the vast majority of real cyclists and cycling fans believe the word used by sars1981, which I did not believe was allowed on this forum, much better describes you and your ilk.
Oldnell said:
Pull your head out of your ****...cheese wick!! Armstrong has the personality of bouchbag.
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