Enough Armchair Lance Bashing!

[Oldnell]

Has Armstrong really raised the profile of the sport as a whole? Bollox has he - the only profile he has raised, or indeed cares about raising, is his own. Any positive effect on the sport - by which I take it you mean those 3 weeks in July which, as we all know, are the only ones that matter in the entire calendar and the only ones to truly benefit from the 'Armstrong Effect' - is purely and entirely coincidental.

I'm sure the Etoile de Bessege, the Tour International de Poitou Charentes and the GP de Plouay amongst others are all well known to the average Armstrong fan

I consider myself an LA fan, and I know of them and just about any other obscure French race you can name. The LA story was what rekindled my interest in cycling after some 40 years. My cycling knowledge also includes a number of amateur events such as "Le Pierre Jodet", "Le Roger Walkowaik", "La Limousine", "Les Copains", "L'Ecureuil", and "Le Etape du Tour". I hold a category 3 French licence (best I can do as I am 71), and have competed in these amateur events as many as 10 times. It may surprise you and the rest of the Armstrong haters on this forum to know that there are a substantial number of French cyclists and cycling fans who like and respect LA.

 

[Oldnell]

Pull your head out of your ****...cheese wick!! Armstrong has the personality of bouchbag.

Coming from such a charming personality as yourself, I suspect LA would consider that a compliment.

You have either invented a new word or are a careless typist. What is a bouchbag?

 

[Oldnell]

Pull your head out of your ****...cheese wick!! Armstrong has the personality of bouchbag.

BPC is Oldnell. Two user accounts.
Or Oldnell is SwiftSolo.

I can assure you that I am neither BPC or SwiftSolo, although I generally agree with them. You haters cannot believe that there are a lot of real people who consider you vermin.

 

[Anonymous]

I consider myself an LA fan, and I know of them and just about any other obscure French race you can name. The LA story was what rekindled my interest in cycling after some 40 years. My cycling knowledge also includes a number of amateur events such as "Le Pierre Jodet", "Le Roger Walkowaik", "La Limousine", "Les Copains", "L'Ecureuil", and "Le Etape du Tour". I hold a category 3 French licence (best I can do as I am 71), and have competed in these amateur events as many as 10 times. It may surprise you and the rest of the Armstrong haters on this forum to know that there are a substantial number of French cyclists and cycling fans who like and respect LA.

I can Google too!!!!!

Sure you are who you say you are...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I can assure you that I am neither BPC or SwiftSolo, although I generally agree with them. You haters cannot believe that there are a lot of real people who consider you vermin.

I have no problem with you being a LA fan- I do not share your view of him.

However I find it quite sad and disturbing that someone who is 71 years of age feels it necessary to call people who oppose your view as haters and now vermin. A rather immature and childish way to make your case.

 

[TRDean]

I can assure you that I am neither BPC or SwiftSolo, although I generally agree with them. You haters cannot believe that there are a lot of real people who consider you vermin.

You can consider me vermin all you want...don't bother me. So keep up the good work...giving me a good laugh with your idiocy and your blind stupidity.

 

[Anonymous]

BPC is Oldnell. Two user accounts.
Or Oldnell is SwiftSolo.

Could be Arbiter. Arbiter had a similarly sharp tongue.

 

[broken chain]

Like him or hate him the powers of cycling are well aware that Lance generates DOLLARS.In every venue on the planet money is the deciding issue.Whether he dopes or not has no bearing on anything.Money is deciding factor.Hell,I bought a Trek.He has the ability to generate interest.Compare Hincapie to Lance and its no contest.Lances persona is what generates interest.Poor George is probably a great person but he just doesn't have that extra charisma.Probably a shy person by nature which does not for one second detract from his fantastic cycling ability.Its just the way it is.

 

[Oldnell]

I have no problem with you being a LA fan- I do not share your view of him.

However I find it quite sad and disturbing that someone who is 71 years of age feels it necessary to call people who oppose your view as haters and now vermin. A rather immature and childish way to make your case.

People who use a combination of half truths, innuendo, and absolute falsehoods to trash anyone who achieves excellence deserve nothing better. I calls them the way I sees them!!!

 

[Oldnell]

I have no problem with you being a LA fan- I do not share your view of him.

However I find it quite sad and disturbing that someone who is 71 years of age feels it necessary to call people who oppose your view as haters and now vermin. A rather immature and childish way to make your case.

Could be Arbiter. Arbiter had a similarly sharp tongue.

I refer you to my reply to Dr. Maserati, except to say that I am who I say I am and have no association or knowledge of either of the two people to whom you have referred. I do agree with them and I make no apology for what I have said about you and your ilk.

 

[Oldnell]

I can Google too!!!!!

Sure you are who you say you are...

I refer you to my reply to Dr. Masarati except to say that I am who I say I am and have no relationship with or knowledge of the person known as Ban Pro Cycling. If you guys continue spewing this venom, you will probably hear from more people who are fed up with your wild theories, innuendo, half truths, and outright falsehoods.

 

[Anonymous]

I refer you to my reply to Dr. Maserati, except to say that I am who I say I am and have no association or knowledge of either of the two people to whom you have referred. I do agree with them and I make no apology for what I have said about you and your ilk.

Start here.

http://velocitynation.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

 

[elapid]

Oldnell, you posted some of your own venom on another thread concerning Armstrong. You, BPC and sgreene all patted each other on the back in mutual support, but yet again did not answer the pertinent questions being raised in this thread. So I will ask you this question again and hope for a direct no BS answer to this question:

Please explain how Lance's HCG measured as high as 109,000 ng/ml (as reported by Lance in It's Not About The Bike) and the upper limit of normal is 0.5 ng/ml but Lance does not test positive to HCG?

In addition, please list the "absolute falsehoods", "half truths" and "innuendos". In all honesty, it would be interesting to see this list.

 

[Oldnell]

Oldnell, you posted some of your own venom on another thread concerning Armstrong. You, BPC and sgreene all patted each other on the back in mutual support, but yet again did not answer the pertinent questions being raised in this thread. So I will ask you this question again and hope for a direct no BS answer to this question:

Please explain how Lance's HCG measured as high as 109,000 ng/ml (as reported by Lance in It's Not About The Bike) and the upper limit of normal is 0.5 ng/ml but Lance does not test positive to HCG?

In addition, please list the "absolute falsehoods", "half truths" and "innuendos". In all honesty, it would be interesting to see this list.

In order to do that I would have to reprint nearly everything you and the rest of the LA haters have been printing since I had the misfortune to come upon this forum.

 

[scribe]

Oldnell, you posted some of your own venom on another thread concerning Armstrong. You, BPC and sgreene all patted each other on the back in mutual support, but yet again did not answer the pertinent questions being raised in this thread. So I will ask you this question again and hope for a direct no BS answer to this question:

Please explain how Lance's HCG measured as high as 109,000 ng/ml (as reported by Lance in It's Not About The Bike) and the upper limit of normal is 0.5 ng/ml but Lance does not test positive to HCG?

In addition, please list the "absolute falsehoods", "half truths" and "innuendos". In all honesty, it would be interesting to see this list.

Answer: He doped and cheated.

And if it hadn't been for you pesky kids poking around here, he would have gotten away with it!

 

[elapid]

In order to do that I would have to reprint nearly everything you and the rest of the LA haters have been printing since I had the misfortune to come upon this forum.

See, this is the problem with Lance lovers. You're full of empty rhetoric and have absolutely no substance. You never answer direct questions. I understand why this is, because you cannot formulate rational answers to pertinent questions. This is why we cannot take you and your ilk seriously. If you want to participate in these forums in a meaningful way, then why not contribute constructively rather than spew out nothingness again and again?

 

[Oldnell]

Oldnell, you posted some of your own venom on another thread concerning Armstrong. You, BPC and sgreene all patted each other on the back in mutual support, but yet again did not answer the pertinent questions being raised in this thread. So I will ask you this question again and hope for a direct no BS answer to this question:

Please explain how Lance's HCG measured as high as 109,000 ng/ml (as reported by Lance in It's Not About The Bike) and the upper limit of normal is 0.5 ng/ml but Lance does not test positive to HCG?

In addition, please list the "absolute falsehoods", "half truths" and "innuendos". In all honesty, it would be interesting to see this list.

I was not in a position to authoritatively answer your specific question when I last replied, but I have just spoken to a good friend of mine who is an oncologist at the Mayo Clinic. He tells me that HCG does not significantly rise until the testicular cancer has reached the stage that it becomes so uncomfortable and noticeable that a person can no longer ignore it. This is exactly LA's description of his situation when he finally went to see a Doctor.

 

[Oldnell]

See, this is the problem with Lance lovers. You're full of empty rhetoric and have absolutely no substance. You never answer direct questions. I understand why this is, because you cannot formulate rational answers to pertinent questions. This is why we cannot take you and your ilk seriously. If you want to participate in these forums in a meaningful way, then why not contribute constructively rather than spew out nothingness again and again?

If you consider participating in these forums in a meaningful way is to start from the assumption that everyone who achieves excellence is a cheat unless he/she or his/her supporters can answer every wild accusation made against him/her, I have no intention of doing so. Even though I am retired, I have a better things to do with my time, including riding my bike.

 

[elapid]

I was not in a position to authoritatively answer your specific question when I last replied, but I have just spoken to a good friend of mine who is an oncologist at the Mayo Clinic. He tells me that HCG does not significantly rise until the testicular cancer has reached the stage that it becomes so uncomfortable and noticeable that a person can no longer ignore it. This is exactly LA's description of his situation when he finally went to see a Doctor.

As I am a surgical oncologist I can tell you that your friend is wrong. HCG is used as a marker for the diagnosis of testicular cancer and determining a prognosis. The HCG level correlates with the volume of disease (ie, higher levels, the worse the disease), but still increases above normal reference ranges even when the tumor is not palpable or even bothersome. Apart from diagnosis and determining prognosis, HCG levels are also importantly used for post-treatment screening: If HCG levels do not decrease to normal levels or later increase, then this indicates that there is evidence of metastatic spread. This can occur despite there being no physical (or imaging) evidence of measurable disease. So this blows your friend's theory.

From the Testicular Cancer Resource Center: "Blood tests: Some testicular cancers secrete something called tumor markers, high levels of certain proteins that can be detected through blood tests. These markers of testicular cancer include alpha-fetoprotein (AFP), beta human chorionic gonadotropin (ß-HCG) and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH). If a guy's AFP or HCG level are above normal AND there is something wrong with his testicle, then you can assume that he has testicular cancer. If the tumor markers do not fall back to normal after an orchiectomy, then you can usually assume that the cancer has spread, even if no other tests show where it has gone."

 

[elapid]

If you consider participating in these forums in a meaningful way is to start from the assumption that everyone who achieves excellence is a cheat unless he/she or his/her supporters can answer every wild accusation made against him/her, I have no intention of doing so. Even though I am retired, I have a better things to do with my time, including riding my bike.

You may be fairly new to this forum so I will give you the benefit of the doubt to explain your ignorance. Many posters do not automatically assume that any athlete that achieves great excellence is a cheat. If you read some of these forum threads then you would realize this. In regards to Lance, there is much factual and circumstantial evidence to strongly suggest he doped. Even BPC admits to this. These are not wild accusations, but based on solid facts and/or information. I understand why you don't want to respond to this evidence: you are either ignorant of it (for instance, HCG levels) or unable to because you have no reasonable answer to explain this evidence. Cheers for going riding ... you're obviously better at it then defending your position on Lance.

 

[Anonymous]

As I am a surgical oncologist I can tell you that your friend is wrong. HCG is used as a marker for the diagnosis of testicular cancer and determining a prognosis. The HCG level correlates with the volume of disease (ie, higher levels, the worse the disease), but still increases above normal reference ranges even when the tumor is not palpable or even bothersome. Apart from diagnosis and determining prognosis, HCG levels are also importantly used for post-treatment screening: If HCG levels do not decrease to normal levels or later increase, then this indicates that there is evidence of metastatic spread. This can occur despite there being no physical (or imaging) evidence of measurable disease. So this blows your friend's theory.

From the Testicular Cancer Resource Center: "Blood tests: Some testicular cancers secrete something called tumor markers, high levels of certain proteins that can be detected through blood tests. These markers of testicular cancer include alpha-fetoprotein (AFP), beta human chorionic gonadotropin (ß-HCG) and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH). If a guy's AFP or HCG level are above normal AND there is something wrong with his testicle, then you can assume that he has testicular cancer. If the tumor markers do not fall back to normal after an orchiectomy, then you can usually assume that the cancer has spread, even if no other tests show where it has gone."

Dear Oldnell: Checkmate.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Only just spotted this. Thanks very much.

There's a large group of them that got kicked off the road bike review forum for anti Armstrong trolling, so they decided to set up camp here, and now they act like they own the place.

"They" got kicked off the RBR forum simply for not agreeing with the fascist moderator over there.
Facts is what owns this forum, and you ain't got 'em.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I consider myself an LA fan, and I know of them and just about any other obscure French race you can name. The LA story was what rekindled my interest in cycling after some 40 years. My cycling knowledge also includes a number of amateur events such as "Le Pierre Jodet", "Le Roger Walkowaik", "La Limousine", "Les Copains", "L'Ecureuil", and "Le Etape du Tour". I hold a category 3 French licence (best I can do as I am 71), and have competed in these amateur events as many as 10 times. It may surprise you and the rest of the Armstrong haters on this forum to know that there are a substantial number of French cyclists and cycling fans who like and respect LA.

So you are a Classic "Fred" who got into cycling again at an advanced age due to being inspired by a charismatic alpha male with a mythical "tragedy overcome" story?

Congratulations! There are many guys just like you.

Do you have an expensive Trek? Do your knees swing out when you pedal? Can you not tolerate any criticism of the "hero" who inspired you to get healthy and enjoy your retirement outdoors on two wheels, dreaming of what might have been if you were 50 years younger?

And if you are now 71, and first started having Lance fantasies 40 years after your initial interest in the sport, you were just a know nothing little boy when you sniffed your first chamois.

By the way - those events you mention are not "amateur" but "recreational" or "tourist", open to anyone who signs up - and anyone can apply and pay for a lower category license.

There are several guys on this forum (myself included) who have very recent or current experience of holding (and using) racing licenses much higher than yours. You mention "recreational" rides for overweight middle aged men on Trek Madones - I'll raise you a whole load of UCI 1.2 classics in Belgium....some national tours and some of the hardest crits in Europe.


You have no idea what you are on about.

 

[Digger]

I can assure you that I am neither BPC or SwiftSolo, although I generally agree with them. You haters cannot believe that there are a lot of real people who consider you vermin.

Do you see the irony?

 

[Digger]

I refer you to my reply to Dr. Masarati except to say that I am who I say I am and have no relationship with or knowledge of the person known as Ban Pro Cycling. If you guys continue spewing this venom, you will probably hear from more people who are fed up with your wild theories, innuendo, half truths, and outright falsehoods.

Give us an example. Shouldn't be too hard if it is as prevalent as you say.