Eros Poli and Marco Pantani

[Polish]

Watched the WCP 1994 Tour de France Video in the "office" during work today.

Great vintage that 1994 race!

Anyway, remember the long flat stage that had a giant "sting in the tail", Mount Ventoux, before the screaming descent down into Carpentras.

Big & Tall Eros Poli attacked solo early in the stage and built up a 20+ minute lead by the base of Mount Ventoux. Eros plodded and chugged up the Mountain on his 63cm Red Steel Pinarello. Marco Pantani danced up the Mountain behind Eros and climbed 16+ minutes faster than Eros - but did not catch the Big Guy. Eros weaved over the top alone:

Pantani did not catch Eros on the descent to the finish either.
Eros won the day

Of course most of the peloton was doped to the gills.
Once, Festina, Gweiss, Carrera, Mercatone, etc.
The only clean riders that year - LeMond, Mottet, and a young Lance?

Of course the riders knew there was mega-doping going on. Just like the riders from the 80's and 70's and 60's knew. Eddy knew, Tom Simpson knew, Hinault knew.

Many fans did not know, however. Gosh, when did Doping in Cycling stop being a "dirty little secret" and become such a "Giant Dirty BlahBlahBlah"?? Probably around 1999?
.
.
.

 

[barn yard]

doping in bike races used to mean 'entertaining', now it just means 'boring'

 

[hrotha]

Why would former US champion, current world champion, recent winner of a TdF stage and 2nd placed in L-B-L Armstrong be particularly clean?

 

[Jimmy Riddle]

Many fans did not know, however. Gosh, when did Doping in Cycling stop being a "dirty little secret" and become such a "Giant Dirty BlahBlahBlah"?? Probably around 1999?

Yeah Armstrong seems to be the guy left holding the parcel when the music stopped.

Also a lot of people admit the whole doping issue is mainly a front used to attack Armstrong. If they liked him as a character then they probably wouldn't have rammed the doping issue down our throats for so long.

 

[Polish]

Why would former US champion, current world champion, recent winner of a TdF stage and 2nd placed in L-B-L Armstrong be particularly clean?

hrotha, did you feel that way back in 1994?

When I was watching back then, doping was not an issue being discussed as much as it is now. Sure, the Tommy Simpson Monument on Ventoux was visited by Eddy and Tommy's daughter during the Tour that year. But doping was not viewed as EVIL in any way as I remember it. Not yet. That is the gist of my OP I think....when did doping start becoming sooo Evil? 1999?

 

[Jimmy Riddle]

I think we have to mention the nature of the hardcore American cycling fans and the way they have transformed the focus onto doping. Before Lance they liked the fact pro cycling was primarily a European based sport and enjoyed the feeling of following something that most other Americans did not know or care about. But Armstrong came along and started to change all this by going and winning the damn TdF every year, and they resented him for this.

It's really strange to watch Americans trying to be a caricature of what they believe extreme French fans are supposed to be like. They've overdone the European cynicism thing in an attempt to be like what they believe are 'real fans'. Like American Irish are more Irish than the Irish in Ireland, or Jews that are more pro Israel than the Israelis.

 

[hrotha]

hrotha, did you feel that way back in 1994?

When I was watching back then, doping was not an issue being discussed as much as it is now. Sure, the Tommy Simpson Monument on Ventoux was visited by Eddy and Tommy's daughter during the Tour that year. But doping was not viewed as EVIL in any way as I remember it. Not yet. That is the gist of my OP I think....when did doping start becoming sooo Evil? 1999?

In 1994? Of course not. What about you in 2010, when you wrote that post? Do you really think Lance was a rare exception in a pack full of dopers in 1994?

Anyway, you may say things changed in 1999, but that was due to a little 1998 fiasco (ever heard of Festina?), not so much because of a certain Texan winning the Tour. Sorry. Prior to that, the general public lived in blissful ignorance (although the introduction of EPO, particularly among Italian teams, was much talked about in the specialized press and what not). The perception of doping changed because the Festina case was huge and was all over the news, and hence all subsequent scandals were too, forcing the cycling world to do something about it.

Armstrong had little to do with it. There was suspicion about him already in 1999, but not because he was hated throughout the world. Hell, in 1998-99 most people were honestly glad he was winning after his comeback.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yeah Armstrong seems to be the guy left holding the parcel when the music stopped.

Also a lot of people admit the whole doping issue is mainly a front used to attack Armstrong. If they liked him as a character then they probably wouldn't have rammed the doping issue down our throats for so long.

I'm surprised there's room down your throat for the doping issue to fit, given what else is rammed down there.

 

[flicker]

I knew the truth about cycling in the 70s when Molteni dumped sausages into the Med. I know the truth now. I enjoy the sport. I do not have a problem with anyone, Lance, Ferrari, LeMond, D. Walsh. Pure entertainment.
I know the nature and unature of the sport. Grateful to watch tour de suisse and tour de france on Versus at my in laws since I do not have cable.
Might even buy an ultra to celebrate. There is always tennis, soccer and golf for the Americans who are disgusted with cycling.

 

[redtreviso]

I had serious doubts about Indurain but Bjarne Riis in 96 pushed me away from even paying attention to the TDF..The pillsbury doughboy the next year then Pantani and festina the next were no surprise..Then in 99 things got even more absurd. Something should have been done in 96.

 

[Barrus]

Many fans did not know, however. Gosh, when did Doping in Cycling stop being a "dirty little secret" and become such a "Giant Dirty BlahBlahBlah"?? Probably around 1999?
.

In the eyes of many fans? 1998. The moment we saw people getting arrested and realized there were team-wide doping systems

 

[rhubroma]

I think we have to mention the nature of the hardcore American cycling fans and the way they have transformed the focus onto doping. Before Lance they liked the fact pro cycling was primarily a European based sport and enjoyed the feeling of following something that most other Americans did not know or care about. But Armstrong came along and started to change all this by going and winning the damn TdF every year, and they resented him for this.

It's really strange to watch Americans trying to be a caricature of what they believe extreme French fans are supposed to be like. They've overdone the European cynicism thing in an attempt to be like what they believe are 'real fans'. Like American Irish are more Irish than the Irish in Ireland, or Jews that are more pro Israel than the Israelis.

Actually they just finally learned about the sport, what the Europeans always knew but cared little about. American fans have since been divided and threfore those whose eyes were opened and like to inform those whose eyes remain shut, and those whose eyes have remained closed in regards to a certain All-American hero from Texas. That pretty much sums it up.

I would also stress the origins of the sport as continental European. Mediterranean people, and those on the Continent in general, aren't bred on that absolute and rather puritanical anglo-american ethos, which, in America, tends to create a naive attitude toward sport, though which is changing due to cases like BALCO. In my opinion the "witch-hunt" to clean-up cycling has become more zealous in direct proportion to the sport's increased entry into the anglo-American market going back to the Lemond years. Lemond, by the way, has been described as that typical naive midwesterner who entered the mafioso world of European cycling with its "secret" practices and omertà. And Bob Roll once said that every 7-year-old Belgian knows more about cycling than any American adult, and he wasn't merely refering to team tactics.

Then a certain Mr. Armstrong came along who from the beginning "understood" and has since then cynically relied upon the naive innocence of a still large portion of his American fan base to count on the lies to cover himself. He experimented with all the doping practices leading up to his cancer, which may have caused it or at least accelerated its progress, as he told his medic accorting to Andreu and then, once a cancer surviver, got into his relationship with Bruyneel and Ferrari. Together they created the myth of the American who beats even brain cancer to come back and win the Tour 7 times in a row clean.

Everything seemed to have worked. And then came along Floyd...

 

[L'arriviste]

I knew the truth about cycling in the 70s when Molteni dumped sausages into the Med.

OK, I have always thought that I knew a little about a lot of things, but this is a beautiful image, straight out of Salvador Dali. Would you indulge an ignoramus and take a moment to share with me - and anyone else who found this statement deliciously tempting and utterly bizarre - what happened here? I want to know! I could Google it, but someone who can broadside me with a simple, offhand comment can probably tell it shorter and better.

 

[FKLance]

Wow, from third post on this became an Armstrong thread. It was such a good start.

 

[Roland Rat]

Wow, from third post on this became an Armstrong thread. It was such a good start.

Yep. What could have been a nice reminiscence about a great stage in 1994 becomes a troll-fest about some spotty unknown kid who probably finished 140-something on that stage.

There was a good article about this in a recent Procycling mag, some journo interviewed Eros Poli while riding up the Ventoux as a "following in the footsteps" type thing.

 

[Benotti69]

...

There was a good article about this in a recent Procycling mag, some journo interviewed Eros Poli while riding up the Ventoux as a "following in the footsteps" type thing.

gotta a link

 

[red_flanders]

Wow, from third post on this became an Armstrong thread. It was such a good start.

Almost as if an agenda were in play. Note the posting record and post count.

 

[hrotha]

Excuse me if I assumed a thread that was posted in the friggin' Clinic wasn't meant to discuss a TdF stage from a purely sporting point of view. The OP brought up Armstrong, not I.

 

[FKLance]

Excuse me if I assumed a thread that was posted in the friggin' Clinic wasn't meant to discuss a TdF stage from a purely sporting point of view. The OP brought up Armstrong, not I.

Oh yeah, sorry I should've seen the OP was Polish so there had to be a mention of Lance and there was.. Such a shame.

 

[Roland Rat]

gotta a link

Don't think it's on t'internet. If I'm feeling bored this weekend I might scan it in, but I wouldn't hold you breath.

 

[Big GMaC]

Wow, from third post on this became an Armstrong thread. It was such a good start.

Actually it was in Polish's opener, an epicly juicy carrot of a troll from the master

 

[FKLance]

Actually it was in Polish's opener, an epicly juicy carrot of a troll from the master

Yeah, noticed later. Cleverly hidden!

I still would not like to read only about LA and american cycling with a title like this!

 

[Parrot23]

Of course most of the peloton was doped to the gills.
Once, Festina, Gweiss, Carrera, Mercatone, etc.
The only clean riders that year - LeMond, Mottet, and a young Lance?

This was the entire point of the thread. Polish is posting under false pretenses: he's a paid troll employed by Lance's folks at Public Strategies.

This is legwork for the upcoming trial, where Lance's folks want to argue the entire peloton was/is doped, but everything has changed.

I'm sure Polish has heard of this guy, Ryszard Kielpinski (gee whiz, he's Polish), the longtime Postal/Discovery soigneur. He's still Lance's soigneur. The feds, Novitzky esp., are definitely gonna talk to him.

This guy has been there and seen it all over many years. Very likely the conduit of his PED's.

Should be relatively easy to charge with perjury.

 

[Nick777]

Watched the WCP 1994 Tour de France Video in the "office" during work today.

Great vintage that 1994 race!

Anyway, remember the long flat stage that had a giant "sting in the tail", Mount Ventoux, before the screaming descent down into Carpentras.

Big & Tall Eros Poli attacked solo early in the stage and built up a 20+ minute lead by the base of Mount Ventoux. Eros plodded and chugged up the Mountain on his 63cm Red Steel Pinarello. Marco Pantani danced up the Mountain behind Eros and climbed 16+ minutes faster than Eros - but did not catch the Big Guy. Eros weaved over the top alone:

Pantani did not catch Eros on the descent to the finish either.
Eros won the day

Of course most of the peloton was doped to the gills.
Once, Festina, Gweiss, Carrera, Mercatone, etc.
The only clean riders that year - LeMond, Mottet, and a young Lance?

Of course the riders knew there was mega-doping going on. Just like the riders from the 80's and 70's and 60's knew. Eddy knew, Tom Simpson knew, Hinault knew.

Many fans did not know, however. Gosh, when did Doping in Cycling stop being a "dirty little secret" and become such a "Giant Dirty BlahBlahBlah"?? Probably around 1999?
.
.
.

I sincerely admire your persistance & faith.

 

[VeloCity]

Also a lot of people admit the whole doping issue is mainly a front used to attack Armstrong.

Thus the numerous doping threads attacking Valverde, Vinokourov, the Schlecks, Contador, and pretty much every other rider of note over the past decade or so