Euro 2012

[the asian]

It is a shame I don't believe in Karma, because I would have something big comming my way. :

Btw Christian Eriksen, DK nr 8. awwww.... so cute. Hehe.

Same for me too. The worst case scenario would be if England or Portugal win the Euros with Christiano Ronaldo winning the best player award or being the top scorer, Wiggins winning the Tour and Andy Murray doing the Wimbledon and Olympics double

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Exactly. We ditched our style for chance. When luck is on our side, anything is possible as the team is quite talented. Without luck, it looks like we've seen in the last 3 games. No base, no teamwork, no passing game.

this.
I really do fell we need to rebuild with a new coach, structure and gameplan.

 

[the asian]

this.
I really do fell we need to rebuild with a new coach, structure and gameplan.

Wonder whether Louis Van Gaal will be given a another run as Dutch coach.

 

[c&cfan]

pretty pathetic that a team with that much talent took 80+ min to get behind this Portugal defense (which is by no means good) and really the contest was flat at this point (after germany took lead again) and over.

Terrible performance all round.

our defense isn't good but player/position by player/position we are better than holand (with van persie being the exception).

so we won, we have more potential.

 

[hrotha]

our defense isn't good but player/position by player/position we are better than holand (with van persie being the exception).

so we won, we have more potential.

I disagree. Other than Ronaldo, no one else is anything special, in my opinion. Used to be Portugal had a great all-around team and just lacked world class strikers, but now it seems like they're a much more average team plus Ronaldo. I think Nani is vastly overrated, for example. I like Coentrão, and Meireles does his job well, but it's not like when they could also rely on the likes of Deco.

To make up for it, Ronaldo has improved a lot in the last ~5 years, but it's still not enough, in my opinion, to say they have a better team, player by player, than the Netherlands.

 

[l.Harm]

16 millions?! No wonder I see nothing but dutch people when traveling in foreign countries. I knew there were a lot but 16 million? F***ing hell, claustrophobic much, eh!?

.......... wth

 

[c&cfan]

I disagree. Other than Ronaldo, no one else is anything special, in my opinion. Used to be Portugal had a great all-around team and just lacked world class strikers, but now it seems like they're a much more average team plus Ronaldo. I think Nani is vastly overrated, for example. I like Coentrão, and Meireles does his job well, but it's not like when they could also rely on the likes of Deco.

To make up for it, Ronaldo has improved a lot in the last ~5 years, but it's still not enough, in my opinion, to say they have a better team, player by player, than the Netherlands.

Pepe, Bruno Alves, Rolando are all world class defenders.. better than anything Holland has. In fact, when we had Carvalho and others like him, together with bosingwa, miguel and coentrao, we had the best defense (and alternatives) talent wise in the EURO. When you have players in shape and you have meireles, moutinho, deco (when he was good..) veloso plus attackers with the talent of ronaldo, nani, and then, when in shape, quaresma, varela (and we had simao, not long ago) we only lack a great striker to be the best team in the world.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

our defense isn't good but player/position by player/position we are better than holand (with van persie being the exception).

so we won, we have more potential.

lol your midfield and attack is not better then ours, nor has it more potential. You guys didn't win because you have a better squad, quite obvious the dutch have been ridiculously out of sorts this tournament. This was no team, just a bunch of egos and individuals (a lot of teams would beat us in this state, a lot. I guess Bulgaria have a better squad then us too). sure today it was but which team wouldn't have been better then us today?? Fact is the team lacked cohesion and heart, and the overall environment of the team at the moment was there to be see in the last two games (IMO they crumbled after the shock loss to Denmark, fighting broke out and it all went to hell). Naturally when nothing else is working our biggest vulnerabilities are exploited; defense.

And lol your defense is better then ours? Whoopie, some achievement that haha. btw Pepe is an overrated hack, cant stand him (along with nani).
You guys are good, but far from "one striker away from best team in the world." Possibility of an objective opinion lost with that comment.

 

[Bala Verde]

Same defence two years ago. Btw Argentina's defence isn't that good. Even Spain got troubles at left and right back. And it's not like let's create some top defenders. Dutch football culture is not like the Italian one, where defending is more important. We became famous as football nation with an attacking style of play. Yes, then we had better defenders, now we don't have. We are a country with 16 million people, it already is a miracle we've such good players in the front. Just some bad luck at the back.

And such a bull**** about English second league. Some Dutchies play there who'll never reach this level. There you just need to be strong and tall, like that Irish defender I just name Arjan de Zeeuw in the past, Glenn Loovens He can't even play at Feyenoord.

Actually it's not that much of a surprise. It has much to do with the KNVB's [dutch national soccer association] deliberate strategy to 'produce' soccer players due to their involvement at all levels of soccer in the Netherlands; be it the training of coaches; player development; commitment to amateur and youth leagues; or team development.

Obviously it does help soccer is the most important sport in the Netherlands.

There are around 1.2m soccer players in the Netherlands and 480,000 youth players. You are bound to 'produce' talent. This is not to say that countries with the biggest populations don't have an overall edge, IF they manage to set up a similar system (i.e. US; China?; but then again, they don't (yet) have a soccer culture.) Organized club football starts at age 5; age 6 they play 4x4; age 7-9 7x7; age 11-19 11x11. They start scouting at age 11 and from then on scouted player will start playing for regional district teams. If you join a district team, your practice sessions probably go up from 1-2 times a week to 4-6 times and you get added time on the field during extra games. That's outside the availability of weekly/monthly summer camps for kids.

Especially important is the fact that the KNVB has regional and district coaches and coaching trainers, who can provide training and instructors to club trainers, to help them to another level. It also comes with a common 'dutch' style of play, and unfortunately, it doesn't emphasize the defensive qualities of a defender; a typical dutch defender should primarily be a player who can pass balls, think forward/move up a line, understand position changes, and as backs, act as a winger; offensive midfielder.

I don't mind 'total football'. I do mind the poor defensive skills. And let's not kid ourselves that, defensively, the dutch were better at the WC 2010.

Heitinga, I wouldn't trust one on one with anyone, not even in the English second league. In this EC (he played what 2x? only) he has left his man unmarked countless times, even during set pieces, he has provided poor cover for other defenders, and/or coaches badly when attackers make position changes. Mathijsen is so slow that if he doesn't stand 4m behind the attacker, he'll lose him no doubt, which means the defensive lines continues to walk back until the 16m, where any team can take pot shots at the goal.

It's no surprise the dutch play with 2 holding defenders, because when they don't most 'top' teams would walk right through their defense. I read somewhere Gomez had the ball 22s in total against the dutch... he scored twice. Against Portugal, when much of the team had been substituted for more offensive oriented players, you saw again how weak the defense was, in and of itself. They just can't cope on an individual or line level with attackers. They cover wrong, leave men unmarked, are too slow, communicate badly, walk back too much. I don't even know what they got right.

And then the self-inflicted wounds, if they are supposed to be football players first, or passing players, how often do they lose the ball when starting a play due to a bad pass to the midfield, after which they are totally out of position to stop a counter attack.

2Gregory van der Wiel (24)
3John Heitinga (28)
4Joris Mathijsen (32)
5Wilfred Bouma (34)
13Ron Vlaar (27)
15Jetro Willems (18)
21Khalid Boulahrouz (30)

You can't win a war with these guys and non of them is even remotely world class.

And don't get me wrong, I do realize that when the midfield or offense doesn't transition quickly enough, their defense will be badly exposed.

 

[DominicDecoco]

.......... wth

Don't tell me you were offfended by that.

 

[boomcie]

I disagree. Other than Ronaldo, no one else is anything special, in my opinion. Used to be Portugal had a great all-around team and just lacked world class strikers, but now it seems like they're a much more average team plus Ronaldo. I think Nani is vastly overrated, for example. I like Coentrão, and Meireles does his job well, but it's not like when they could also rely on the likes of Deco.

He didn't contribute that much IMO.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Time for more of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkr_zSXGLGw

"You should tell Ronaldo that you saw his girl with Badr Hari"
(the wife of Gullit, Estelle, was seen with Badr Hari, causing a breakup)

 

[Machu Picchu]

Time for more of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkr_zSXGLGw

"You should tell Ronaldo that you saw his girl with Badr Hari"
(the wife of Gullit, Estelle, was seen with Badr Hari, causing a breakup)

Yeah I heard that and then a couple of days later he's posting pictures of himself out at lunch with Overeem

 

[l.Harm]

Don't tell me you were offfended by that.

Not offended, surprised by such bullcrap

Actually it's not that much of a surprise. It has much to do with the KNVB's [dutch national soccer association] deliberate strategy to 'produce' soccer players due to their involvement at all levels of soccer in the Netherlands; be it the training of coaches; player development; commitment to amateur and youth leagues; or team development.

Obviously it does help soccer is the most important sport in the Netherlands.

There are around 1.2m soccer players in the Netherlands and 480,000 youth players. You are bound to 'produce' talent. This is not to say that countries with the biggest populations don't have an overall edge, IF they manage to set up a similar system (i.e. US; China?; but then again, they don't (yet) have a soccer culture.) Organized club football starts at age 5; age 6 they play 4x4; age 7-9 7x7; age 11-19 11x11. They start scouting at age 11 and from then on scouted player will start playing for regional district teams. If you join a district team, your practice sessions probably go up from 1-2 times a week to 4-6 times and you get added time on the field during extra games. That's outside the availability of weekly/monthly summer camps for kids.

Especially important is the fact that the KNVB has regional and district coaches and coaching trainers, who can provide training and instructors to club trainers, to help them to another level. It also comes with a common 'dutch' style of play, and unfortunately, it doesn't emphasize the defensive qualities of a defender; a typical dutch defender should primarily be a player who can pass balls, think forward/move up a line, understand position changes, and as backs, act as a winger; offensive midfielder.

I don't mind 'total football'. I do mind the poor defensive skills. And let's not kid ourselves that, defensively, the dutch were better at the WC 2010.

Heitinga, I wouldn't trust one on one with anyone, not even in the English second league. In this EC (he played what 2x? only) he has left his man unmarked countless times, even during set pieces, he has provided poor cover for other defenders, and/or coaches badly when attackers make position changes. Mathijsen is so slow that if he doesn't stand 4m behind the attacker, he'll lose him no doubt, which means the defensive lines continues to walk back until the 16m, where any team can take pot shots at the goal.

It's no surprise the dutch play with 2 holding defenders, because when they don't most 'top' teams would walk right through their defense. I read somewhere Gomez had the ball 22s in total against the dutch... he scored twice. Against Portugal, when much of the team had been substituted for more offensive oriented players, you saw again how weak the defense was, in and of itself. They just can't cope on an individual or line level with attackers. They cover wrong, leave men unmarked, are too slow, communicate badly, walk back too much. I don't even know what they got right.

And then the self-inflicted wounds, if they are supposed to be football players first, or passing players, how often do they lose the ball when starting a play due to a bad pass to the midfield, after which they are totally out of position to stop a counter attack.

2Gregory van der Wiel (24)
3John Heitinga (28)
4Joris Mathijsen (32)
5Wilfred Bouma (34)
13Ron Vlaar (27)
15Jetro Willems (18)
21Khalid Boulahrouz (30)

You can't win a war with these guys and non of them is even remotely world class.

And don't get me wrong, I do realize that when the midfield or offense doesn't transition quickly enough, their defense will be badly exposed.

Yes, that's the reason for the Dutch succes in football, you didn't need to tell me that But for a country with 16 million people it's still a great achievement to have such a good players. What you're telling is right, but not enough. You also need good training etc. KNVB btw also is criticised on their vision about football and education.

But I don't agree about the defence. With such a bad defensive skills, we still had defenders like Frank Rijkaard, Jaap Stam, Frank de Boer, Rinus Israel o), Ronald Koeman etc. It's not like Holland never 'produces' good defenders. And I think for the future there are good signs. Look at the -17 who won the EC twice (this and last year). Some good defenders like Rekik (Man City), Kongolo (Feyenoord) played there. And in the Eredivisie there are De Vrij (Feyenoord), Viergever (AZ), Gouweleeuw (Heerenveen), Van Rhijn (Ajax), who still got a lot potential.

And it's true defending in Holland is not like defending anywhere else. But is that really a problem? If you look at defenders like Piqué and Kompany, they contribute to the position play of their team. I think it's a big advantage to have defenders with a good pass. And of course it fits in the style of play. If you want to press on the half of the opponent it's essentially you've defenders who move up, otherwise there are such big gaps. I think it's good to have different styles around the world and also you should be happy with that. So the classical Dutch style of play needs that kind of defenders, so it's not weird defenders have to be able to do that.

And Heitinga was really bad this tournament. But I don't agree he's a bad player. He's playing for Everton in Premier League and you say he's not good enough for Championship Although he's not the type of player for the Championship (tall defenders who don't have to be able to do anything with a ball, just kick it forward), he's got enough class to play in subtop of Europe.

And the German goals were cause by mistakes at midfield. Twice Schweinsteiger was totally free and could pass it to Gomez. Of course the defence wasn't blameless, but it wasn't only their mistake.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Most of it is explainable by the bad season most of the Oranje players had this season.

I mean even a year ago the Dutch national team was untouchable. We have nearly never lost a match in the past 4 years before the EC build-up/EC.
But most players this year lost their place in the team due to bad form, or got injured too much to play. So you go to the EC with players who all had bad seasons except Van Persie and Huntelaar. It was foreseeable. I don't think I'm the only one who really feared massive failure this championship.

The first bad feeling I got was after Sweden-Netherlands. A team we beat 4-1 a year ago. But now the team was unrecognizably bad. Then it continued with the friendly against Germany (3-0) and you heard more complaints. You could see as the season progressed many Dutch internationals lost their starting place in their teams or got injured. And then came the EC build up.. first you lose Pieters and replace him by Willems... (instead of Emanuelson who at least has SOME experience playing for Milan...) Then you lose to ****ing Bulgaria. Well.. the rest you could see coming. Although I still think they could've/should've never lost to Denmark with the way that match was going.
Germany and Portugal were clearly better tho

 

[Nastyy]

Can't see Spain or Italy going any further than this in the tournament. You really got through from group C easily, you only had to beat Ireland. Spain was no better than Croatia but got a lucky win 'cause Croatia opened up their defense and Croatia should've had two or at least one penalty but Stark has no balls or Spain has bought some referees.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Is it ajax thing that cb push and follow their man upfront and then get caught out lol, eg vermalaen and heitinga the used to that alot

 

[hrotha]

Can't see Spain or Italy going any further than this in the tournament. You really got through from group C easily, you only had to beat Ireland. Spain was no better than Croatia but got a lucky win 'cause Croatia opened up their defense and Croatia should've had two or at least one penalty but Stark has no balls or Spain has bought some referees.

The problem with Spain remains its lack of strikers. Torres is being better than could be expected, but still Del Bosque insists on playing without strikers for much of the time. What use is Navas when there's no one to take advantage of his crosses? This game screamed "Llorente" out loud.

Without strikers, Spain depends entirely too much on Iniesta, because the only way they can get through is through the middle of the rival's defense, and Iniesta is the one who can do that with some reliability (also Silva, but to a much lesser extent). But Iniesta had a bad game, so Spain was crap.

 

[roundabout]

Can't see Spain or Italy going any further than this in the tournament. You really got through from group C easily, you only had to beat Ireland. Spain was no better than Croatia but got a lucky win 'cause Croatia opened up their defense and Croatia should've had two or at least one penalty but Stark has no balls or Spain has bought some referees.

I didn't really get the point of extra referees when Mandzukic got fouled.

 

[The Hitch]

I disagree. Other than Ronaldo, no one else is anything special, in my opinion. Used to be Portugal had a great all-around team and just lacked world class strikers, but now it seems like they're a much more average team plus Ronaldo. I think Nani is vastly overrated, for example. I like Coentrão, and Meireles does his job well, but it's not like when they could also rely on the likes of Deco.

To make up for it, Ronaldo has improved a lot in the last ~5 years, but it's still not enough, in my opinion, to say they have a better team, player by player, than the Netherlands.

Taking into account Nani, Mereiles and the dude who scored the winner v denmark, as well as Ronaldo they have a good number of players who can score screamers anytime they get the ball around the area.

 

[Jan the Man]

Yesterday after Torres went off Spain were crying out for someone like Llorente to take advantage of Navas' play.

I agree with Hrotha that Iniesta is the key to Spain, especially if they insist on not playing a striker.

After the groups it is impossible to call who are the favourites. I had a feeling about France before the tournament, they have done ok so far.

Spain is as always a favourite. I think there is also more to come from Germany. Other than Spain they have the deepest squad. I think it shows when someone like Reus has not played a minute.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Hey look...England play boring as f.ck football and fluke a goal

Typical

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

That was a goal

Ukraine are so screwed

2 line referees and they still don't see it. FIFA/UEFA -> VIDEO TECHNOLOGY PLEASE

 

[DominicDecoco]

That was a goal

Ukraine are so screwed

2 line referees and they still don't see it. FIFA/UEFA -> VIDEO TECHNOLOGY PLEASE

Goal-line technolgy, definitely!

Video technology? No, never.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Ukraine player was offside.

For the 2nd time in 2 mins, the linesman did not give it and so gave them a clear goal scoring opportunity. And yet they will think themselves hard done to.

Mainly no looking forward to Germany Greece - hopefully it kicks off big time.