Evans wins worlds...what was he on?

[BikeCentric]

I think Big Boat has taken a few too many blood refills. Trolls like BigbOat should be forbidden from forums as they are pessimists. If you don't have any thing nice or constructive to say, DON"T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL! Why do you even follow the sport if you think all the racers are narcissists and cheats? Seems hipocritical to me. I'm not just making this rant because CE won. I'm just sick of doping threads being made after somebody has won.

BigBoat is not a troll - the evidence of that is he knows what he's talking about when it comes to cycling and he knows what he's talking about when it comes to doping.

As to his assertions about the peloton's relative state of cleanliness that is for all of us to judge on our own. You can feel free to believe that they are mostly clean and he can feel free to believe they are mostly dirty. I actually think the weight of real-world evidence leans in BigBoat's favor, however even if it didn't it wouldn't justify ad-hominems against his posts.

 

[BigBoat]

When someone is successful we are instantly suspicious, we have easly forgotten that talent, hard work and a bit of good luck some days make someone a winner.

Yeah...Agreed, AND also.....

 

[Advancedone]

But seriously, most of you DO have pet Wallabies or Roos right?

I personally have an Emu. I find it keeps trespassers away better than a Kangaroo, however most people keep Roo's. I suppose it's like cats versus dogs.

And good on Cadel. Whether He is clean or not (people can make their own decision) it was still a good ride. Perfect timing and a very good understanding of the race dynamics that were unfolding. He's on a winning feeling right now!

 

[craig1985]

As a San Francisco dwelling Yank, this was actually an extremely informative post for me! LOL cycling may have it's problems but one of the coolest things about it is the cultural melting pot it brings together.

But seriously, most of you DO have pet Wallabies or Roos right?

I keep a freshwater crocodile in my swimming pool and in my garden I have several Eastern Brown snakes (one of the deadliest snakes in the world).

 

[auscyclefan94]

The funny thing is on the EBH thread I said that we cant call a rider a doper because they won, all you said was about boonen saying cadel is the only clean gc rider. The fact is you are a cadel fanboy, but it's okay it's no big deal. Everybody is a fan boy

This is what i said. READ WHAT I SAID:

boonen said that evans was the only clean gc rider. i'd like to hope that's true but i can't be sure of it.

I'd like to hope it's true but i never said he actually was/is clean. I also made the point as well that i don't like people who start threads because a rider won a race and their now a doper. It's unfair

 

[auscyclefan94]

+1.... the clinic is for discussing doping. Auscyclefan94, if you don't want to participate in the discussion, or you want to believe that there isn't a doping problem in cycling, then you should not read this forum. There is a doping thread for just about every rider who has ever won anything (and many who haven't). Evans won the WC, and thus he now has his own thread!

Personally, I think Evans is pretty clean - especially in comparison to other top GT riders. I am also very happy that he won the WC road race. However, if he releases blood values (I really hope he does) or anything else implicates him in a doping scandal, I will be an active member of the ensuing discussion on these forums.

I like to discuss doping but not when you have peole making threads when somebody wins. Doping is the problem in cycling but i think it is fair that i shouldn't have to be bombarded with comments about riders who have won a race and so their now dopers. Seems a little bit prejudice to judge ALL cyclists in that way.

 

[Runitout]

I like to discuss doping but not when you have peole making threads when somebody wins. Doping is the problem in cycling but i think it is fair that i shouldn't have to be bombarded with comments about riders who have won a race and so their now dopers. Seems a little bit prejudice to judge ALL cyclists in that way.

Well, it's either prejudice or informed cynicism. Depends upon whom you ask. Look at the staggering number of GT GC top tens since 1990 who have been proved to be on the gear. It's in the majority, not the minority. So if you do well, chances are you're a doper.

So you should look for a reason why they might be different from the rest, I think, rather than assuming that they're clean. Otherwise you're just angling to be disappointed when they inevitably test positive in a year or three.

It's the risk you take when you are emotionally attached to the success of someone you don't actually know - one look at the fans foaming at the mouth when their hero is alleged to be doping (sometimes with the weight of staggering evidence) says that it's sometimes more about the fan identifying with the rider than an objective view about who is clean or who is not. I'm not singling you out ACF94 - the most rabid fans I know defend someone who is quite clearly doping, whereas there's at least complete uncertainty w/r to Evans.

The only reason I suspect Evans might be clean is the goings on at the 2004 Vuelta. The reasons I have to suspect that he is a doper are that he is a successful professional cyclist - and very few successful professional cyclists, historically, seem to be clean - going back as far as Coppi and before.

 

[Galic Ho]

I like to discuss doping but not when you have peole making threads when somebody wins. Doping is the problem in cycling but i think it is fair that i shouldn't have to be bombarded with comments about riders who have won a race and so their now dopers. Seems a little bit prejudice to judge ALL cyclists in that way.

Ok time out. Take a chill pill dude. Geelong next year, Cadel in rainbow jersey, your backyard. But I stand by my comment. Only a blind person cannot tell Evans is your favourite rider. You don't hide it. Plus, its not the first time in the last two weeks you've linded BigBoat up for a shot because of a Cadel comment. Which is why I questioned your reasoning...evidence in hand was a recurring pattern arising around Cadel and BB. Enjoy the Worlds next year.

It's not terribly bad because it's an Aus broadcast only, not going to offend too many people. I've heard Keenan dozens of times this year and that was the first time he ever showed emotion and the scale of the achievement warranted it. Phil was much more balanced with Keenan there too, rather than Paul just playing the same tricks as him.

Would the public rather that or a foreign broadcast which showed 5% of the awareness to the Australians in the field as Ligget/Keenan did.

Same here about hearing Keenan. He's very good, its just his last lap commentary blew. He was too excited, commentators have to be neutral, happens in the football world cup (which has plenty of drama), so Keenan has some maturing to do in my opinion. It looks bad when Liggett is pulling you up for being biased. But that one lap aside he is quality.

But seriously, most of you DO have pet Wallabies or Roos right?

I wake up and they are in my front yard. Not pets though. But kids do ride them to school, when they miss the bus. In the paddock near my house there are often 20 odd roos chillin. Don't hit them with a car, they make a mess. Only one I've ever hit, was on a highway doing 100 km/h and over 2 metres tall, 90 plus kilos. Biggest roo I'd seen in years. Roo dead, car dead. Don't hit a wombat either. It's like hitting a granite boulder. As for the below quote:

I keep a freshwater crocodile in my swimming pool and in my garden I have several Eastern Brown snakes (one of the deadliest snakes in the world).

He's fibbing about the fresh water croc, unless its a baby but more than likely telling the truth about the snakes. Australia has the top 4 deadliest snakes. All much worse than a rattlesnake, black mamba or cobra. Don't ask, just don't go to rural Queensland or into sugar cane fields.

 

[blaxland]

When someone is successful we are instantly suspicious, we have easly forgotten that talent, hard work and a bit of good luck some days make someone a winner.

+1 agreed......wether on the gear or not?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Ok time out. Take a chill pill dude. Geelong next year, Cadel in rainbow jersey, your backyard. But I stand by my comment. Only a blind person cannot tell Evans is your favourite rider. You don't hide it. Plus, its not the first time in the last two weeks you've linded BigBoat up for a shot because of a Cadel comment. Which is why I questioned your reasoning...evidence in hand was a recurring pattern arising around Cadel and BB. Enjoy the Worlds next year.



Same here about hearing Keenan. He's very good, its just his last lap commentary blew. He was too excited, commentators have to be neutral, happens in the football world cup (which has plenty of drama), so Keenan has some maturing to do in my opinion. It looks bad when Liggett is pulling you up for being biased. But that one lap aside he is quality.

Yes, Evans is my favourite rider. I'll agree to disagree with you as my reasonings go for most riders but i see why you are a bit sceptical, as i would be too.

With Keenan, I agree totally. Great call but i think he got a bit over the top. He was going crazy as well when Johny Hoogerland attacked. I was like, whoah, keep it in the pants. I think he would have the right to get a bit excited for evans in the final straight as we all knew he was going to win. I think Liggett was getting a bit annoyed with Keenan being biased but Phil can't talk as he continually fantasises over LA and MC.

 

[patswana]

Evans won. He's obviously on something. The question is what?

Couldn't you see that his cadence was higher than usual?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Couldn't you see that his cadence was higher than usual?

One of the coaches from Australia said to the aussies that to spin a high cadence so you would have fresher legs. I'll try to find the link to that article.

EDIT:Sorry, can't find article but i remember that a few of the U23 riders suggested to ride a high cadence.

 

[LastRide]

Dream on. Craig1985 was right. Forsters Group owns Crown Lager...the kiln however has a different concoction in both cases.

http://www.australianbeers.com/beers/interview/ohoy/ohoy.htm

Sorry to ruin the urban myth. Covered this one years back in a marketing lecture. Ownerships by the Forsters Group is as far as it goes. Taste the two, they are not the same. Crown Lager is popular here in a niche way. Forsters doesn't get sold.

An ex marketing student telling me to dream on, you have a hide.

Either way the point is that the Fosters (not forsters) in Australia is not the same as the one drunk overseas. If you do leave Australia and taste Fosters over there you will understand what i mean. It tastes much better than the stuff here.

Its funny how the majority of Australians who bag Fosters Lager to overseas drinkers have never tasted the Fosters overseas. Way to bash an Aussie icon..

Oh thats right your the same guy who is claiming Cadel is dirty after the winning the WC RR. Un-Australian!

 

[blackcat]

I reckon Evans is on recovery therapy. That is it. His wattage is about where Lemond's was.

I am like Kohl, and do not think anyone can be clean in the top 10 in the GTs. But unlike Kohl, I do not think everyone is on the same massive 02 boosting program Kohl was. Most were. I am sure Vande Velde got some O2 boost.

Evans clean tho, nope. Cleaner than others, yep. Now, that may be a moot point, once you decide to plunge into recovery therapy, you are still doping, so are there degrees of doping? When you buy in, what is the difference between Armstrong's program, and simple recovery therapy. There is a difference in the effect no doubt. But what is the difference in ethic. Is one worse than the other? How does one measure it? For the effect? For the degree of response?

In 2007 Evans said "the tests are working, the tests are getting better". Does not really sound like the quote of a clean rider, if you are exhorting Omerta 101.

Then there was the noise that Evans once worked with Ferrari. Michael Rogers did, but there was never any formal record of Evans. His coach is Aldo Sassi of Mapei, who, incidentally, coaches Basso now.

 

[Runitout]

Un-Australian!

Oh dear ...

 

[craig1985]

Ok time out. Take a chill pill dude. Geelong next year, Cadel in rainbow jersey, your backyard. But I stand by my comment. Only a blind person cannot tell Evans is your favourite rider. You don't hide it. Plus, its not the first time in the last two weeks you've linded BigBoat up for a shot because of a Cadel comment. Which is why I questioned your reasoning...evidence in hand was a recurring pattern arising around Cadel and BB. Enjoy the Worlds next year.



Same here about hearing Keenan. He's very good, its just his last lap commentary blew. He was too excited, commentators have to be neutral, happens in the football world cup (which has plenty of drama), so Keenan has some maturing to do in my opinion. It looks bad when Liggett is pulling you up for being biased. But that one lap aside he is quality.



I wake up and they are in my front yard. Not pets though. But kids do ride them to school, when they miss the bus. In the paddock near my house there are often 20 odd roos chillin. Don't hit them with a car, they make a mess. Only one I've ever hit, was on a highway doing 100 km/h and over 2 metres tall, 90 plus kilos. Biggest roo I'd seen in years. Roo dead, car dead. Don't hit a wombat either. It's like hitting a granite boulder. As for the below quote:



He's fibbing about the fresh water croc, unless its a baby but more than likely telling the truth about the snakes. Australia has the top 4 deadliest snakes. All much worse than a rattlesnake, black mamba or cobra. Don't ask, just don't go to rural Queensland or into sugar cane fields.

We even have the Box Jellyfish in the waters up in North Queensland. If that stings you, you're dead. Our ex-PM Paul Keating once described this place as the "arse end of the world".

 

[Galic Ho]

An ex marketing student telling me to dream on, you have a hide.

Either way the point is that the Fosters (not forsters) in Australia is not the same as the one drunk overseas. If you do leave Australia and taste Fosters over there you will understand what i mean. It tastes much better than the stuff here.

Its funny how the majority of Australians who bag Fosters Lager to overseas drinkers have never tasted the Fosters overseas. Way to bash an Aussie icon.

I'll take your word for it and check sometime in Europe. Either way anything with Forsters on the label rarely is drunk here in Australia. I only did a handful of marketing subjects. The idea of spending my life selling $h!t to people they don't need is not appealing. Aussie Icon? That's stretching the truth a bit. Like Steve Irwin displaying a typical run of the mill aussie personality.

Oh thats right your the same guy who is claiming Cadel is dirty after the winning the WC RR. Un-Australian!

No, just considering the thread title and throwing an idea out there (not neceassarily my opinion, happens in debating). I don't think he's doing anything the other riders are not doing. Cadel deserved his win. Was I shocked? Yes, by his attack and lack of response from the others, but they'd all riden 260km's. So the success was what surprised me. I was more surprised that Vino was there on the last lap and Keenan's "before he broke our hearts" line. Had me laughing really hard. Un-Australian, gees, where have I heard that before? Don't worry I'm not offended, its just unoriginal.

My earlier post might not have been too clear, but I believe the most likely scenario is that the tactics played out to Cadels legs perfectly. He went with Kolobnev and Rodriguez and the only guys who could beat him were marking each other and left it too late. It fits. Talk of doping is hypothetical of course, but this is the clinic. Perhaps the illuminati were at work after all?

 

[auscyclefan94]

I reckon Evans is on recovery therapy. That is it. His wattage is about where Lemond's was.

I am like Kohl, and do not think anyone can be clean in the top 10 in the GTs. But unlike Kohl, I do not think everyone is on the same massive 02 boosting program Kohl was. Most were. I am sure Vande Velde got some O2 boost.

Evans clean tho, nope. Cleaner than others, yep. Now, that may be a moot point, once you decide to plunge into recovery therapy, you are still doping, so are there degrees of doping? When you buy in, what is the difference between Armstrong's program, and simple recovery therapy. There is a difference in the effect no doubt. But what is the difference in ethic. Is one worse than the other? How does one measure it? For the effect? For the degree of response?

In 2007 Evans said "the tests are working, the tests are getting better". Does not really sound like the quote of a clean rider, if you are exhorting Omerta 101.

Then there was the noise that Evans once worked with Ferrari. Michael Rogers did, but there was never any formal record of Evans. His coach is Aldo Sassi of Mapei, who, incidentally, coaches Basso now.

Evans was never with Ferrari. Why doesn't that quote sound like a clean rider. I am not saying he is but people read to much into peoples comments. i am sick of arguing so i will stop.

 

[cyclingmad]

Conduct

The people who should really be banned are those who get upset that other people are discussing subjects they do not approve of. Who made you king? Who are you to tell anyone whether they should follow cycling? If you are sick of doping threads then you should not read the doping forum. Imbecile!

+1
Have to agree with you about auscyclefan. While in a lot of his posts he is objective he is being hypocritical as he continuously creates threads to discuss doping of Spanish riders because he either doesn't like them or Spanish people in general it seems. In some of the posts he also encourages and uses general insults and generalisations about riders and maybe even nations he doesn't like so these threads deteriorate from the subject of cycling.

Bigboat thinks everyone is doping in proffessional cycling which I don't agree with but at least he makes a case in his posts and doesn't try and attack other forum members.

 

[auscyclefan94]

+1
Have to agree with you about auscyclefan. While in a lot of his posts he is objective he is being hypocritical as he continuously creates threads to discuss doping of Spanish riders because he either doesn't like them or Spanish people in general it seems. In some of the posts he also encourages and uses general insults and generalisations about riders and maybe even nations he doesn't like so these threads deteriorate from the subject of cycling.

Bigboat thinks everyone is doping in proffessional cycling which I don't agree with but at least he makes a case in his posts and doesn't try and attack other forum members.

I only made a thread about valverde because their is EVIDENCE and a court case against him. boasson hagen or Evans aren't on doping charges. That's not hipocritcal. I am not a racist either to get that straight. I am friends with many italians, and in which the aussies sometimes call the italians w@#$ and they call us convicts. My comment on the other thread wasn't meant to be insulting or racist. I am sorry if i offended anyone as my comments weren't meant to be insulting. I don't dislike Spainish people either. others have made comments about spains doping problem as well and i'm labelled the racist because i commented about doping in Spainish riders. Seems a like you have double standards.You don't have to agree with me, i can tolerate that, but don't insult my intergrity. I am not the bad guy.

 

[Cobber]

I only made a thread about valverde because their is EVIDENCE and a court case against him. boasson hagen or Evans aren't on doping charges. That's not hipocritcal.

I think you are still missing the point of this forum....

The Clinic is a place to discuss doping. As I said in my previous post, almost all the top cyclists have a thread. It is a place to discuss specific evidence of doping, as well as circumstantial evidence such as "unbelievable performances", associations with doping doctors/teams etc. It is also a place to post information to the contrary . Case in point, in another thread, we were discussing Garmin and AC and Wiggo, and Jonothan Vaughters came in and defended his team, including posting power data for Wiggo that wasn't already in the public domain. Not everyone believed his view, but we all definitely appreciated his contribution.

I get the feeling that most people think Evans is pretty clean. Maybe the best "evidence" of this is the Race Radio's (who is known 'round these parts as being knowledgable and a pretty harsh critic of "known" dopers) comment (2nd post in this thread) that Evans is on "a Canyon". Just because Evans has a thread, doesn't mean that everyone thinks he is on the juice. If you have specific evidence or thoughts on the subject then please post it. If you don't, then you are no better or less annoying than any of the Lance fanboys that plague this forum. One word of advice, though... if you like the rider being discussed, check any emotional attachment to him at the door. I am also a huge Evans fan (I'm an Aussie! ), but his performances and associations over the years do warrant scrutiny. I would love him to post blood values and power data, for a start.

 

[TRDean]

I think Big Boat has taken a few too many blood refills. Trolls like BigbOat should be forbidden from forums as they are pessimists. If you don't have any thing nice or constructive to say, DON"T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL! Why do you even follow the sport if you think all the racers are narcissists and cheats? Seems hipocritical to me. I'm not just making this rant because CE won. I'm just sick of doping threads being made after somebody has won.

I generally like your posts...but with this you are nothing more than an itch in your daddy's pants!!

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think you are still missing the point of this forum....

The Clinic is a place to discuss doping. As I said in my previous post, almost all the top cyclists have a thread. It is a place to discuss specific evidence of doping, as well as circumstantial evidence such as "unbelievable performances", associations with doping doctors/teams etc. It is also a place to post information to the contrary . Case in point, in another thread, we were discussing Garmin and AC and Wiggo, and Jonothan Vaughters came in and defended his team, including posting power data for Wiggo that wasn't already in the public domain. Not everyone believed his view, but we all definitely appreciated his contribution.

I get the feeling that most people think Evans is pretty clean. Maybe the best "evidence" of this is the Race Radio's (who is known 'round these parts as being knowledgable and a pretty harsh critic of "known" dopers) comment (2nd post in this thread) that Evans is on "a Canyon". Just because Evans has a thread, doesn't mean that everyone thinks he is on the juice. If you have specific evidence or thoughts on the subject then please post it. If you don't, then you are no better or less annoying than any of the Lance fanboys that plague this forum. One word of advice, though... if you like the rider being discussed, check any emotional attachment to him at the door. I am also a huge Evans fan (I'm an Aussie! ), but his performances and associations over the years do warrant scrutiny. I would love him to post blood values and power data, for a start.

I can accept that. Do you think he's clean? Unfortunately you can never be too sure.

 

[TRDean]

Man...when Cadel attacked he was going flat out like a lizard drinkin!!! What a pearler!!

 

[TRDean]

+1
Have to agree with you about auscyclefan. While in a lot of his posts he is objective he is being hypocritical as he continuously creates threads to discuss doping of Spanish riders because he either doesn't like them or Spanish people in general it seems. In some of the posts he also encourages and uses general insults and generalisations about riders and maybe even nations he doesn't like so these threads deteriorate from the subject of cycling.

Bigboat thinks everyone is doping in proffessional cycling which I don't agree with but at least he makes a case in his posts and doesn't try and attack other forum members.

Ausycyclefan does not like Italians either!! Homer!!