Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Rackham]

Oh man the rumor of his 2 fractured vertebrae is starting to spread. Not good: Primož Roglič tiene dos vertebras fracturadas y se perdería La Vuelta – Ciclismo Internacional

No Vuelta = massively depressing. I mean how can everyone in his team be having such a riot in the TdF & he gets served this plate of cr*p?

Unfair doesn't begin to describe this.

 

[Lequack]

Oh man the rumor of his 2 fractured vertebrae is starting to spread. Not good: Primož Roglič tiene dos vertebras fracturadas y se perdería La Vuelta – Ciclismo Internacional

No Vuelta = massively depressing. I mean how can everyone in his team be having such a riot in the TdF & he gets served this plate of cr*p?

Unfair doesn't begin to describe this.

They made a deal with the devil. Roglic's back for yellow jersey.

 

[Scarponi]

I know it’s not a tour but winning 4 veulta in a row is still something that is very very very very rare sad he doesn’t get a chance

 

[JosefK]

Broken back in 2 places, dislocated shoulder. Sticks around long enough to bait Pogi into burning all his matches on stage 11. = Champion heart.

 

[JosefK]

Jumbo will bring Rogla to the TDF next year if they have to roll him in on a wheelchair. Rog is the crash magnet. So strong is the force that he sucks all the bad crash juju away from Vingo. So Roglic = crash protection for Vin.

 

[staubsauger]

Yep. Now let's say last Sunday if he hasn't abandoned the race it's Roglic who crashes instead or Kruijswijk, i.e. voilà, he's potentially in a world of trouble.

This rider is a multi-million euro investment for Jumbo Visma. I know winning the TdF is big money but seriously it's absolutely not worth risking the health of a rider, i.e. something which is morally wrong & also economically self-defeating as well (for example Thibaut Pinot's back injury sustained in the 2020 TdF was an issue for FDJ for over a year when his performances suffered greatly due to finishing that Tour injured when he should have been sent home immediately).

Pinot probably should have taken Madiot to court for it, but yeah they're friends of course.

 

[Rackham]

Jumbo will bring Rogla to the TDF next year if they have to roll him in on a wheelchair. Rog is the crash magnet. So strong is the force that he sucks all the bad crash juju away from Vingo. So Roglic = crash protection for Vin.

Jumbo can go **** themselves if this news is true.

I find it somewhat ironic, actually, i.e. many pages ago in this thread (a couple of months I think) someone said Jumbo weren't happy when Roglic told the media he had a knee injury in Itzulia because it would make Jumbo potentially 'look bad' for having him ride with an injury.

Then what happens in the TdF? They get him to launch a suicidal attack on Pogacar with possibly a fractured back. It was absolutely not worth it, at all.

 

[bNator]

@Tinnekeisabella How can that be? You assured us he didn’t look like he was suffering…

 

[Cookster15]

Roglic has been used and abused by Jumbo. I feel sorry for him. Disgraceful and why cannot be fully discussed in this forum.

 

[Lequack]

And they got him for a budget price according to his salary, given that he was a top 1 cyclist points wise for like 3 years running.

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[VayaVayaVaya]

That’s sad to see

 

[Oldermanish]

I don't think I misunderstood, i.e. my own point is the concept of riding the TdF in agony after a crash is crazy considering there could be something seriously wrong which the initial scan/diagnostic didn't reveal.

If this information re Roglic is true, it means Jumbo Visma won the TdF for Jonas Vingegaard in large part thanks to sending Roglic with a broken back to attack Pogacar on the Galibier.

This is nuts.

And it would be more nuts if there hadn't been a scan of his spine before he was allowed to ride. There is an NFL tough guy element necessary to participate in this sport, even if you don't get hurt from a crash. If Roglic and his handlers/team deemed the diagnosed condition was not detoriative and merited a day to day observation; Primoz would have an opinion that is definitive. He'd know when he couldn't contribute that it was time to stop. Sometimes that feeling comes at morning wake up....they can't/don't/shouldn't take the kind of pain blocking agents that impact sports guys and gals injest. He wasn't getting a chance to recover but he felt better about the effort he provided. Saying JV was sending Roglic anywhere suggests he doesn't know his condition. I would guess strongly that he knew and wanted to continue. He also was proving to JV that support for future events, including the Tour are pretty much guaranteed. How much he can rely on that is not something predictable.
Jonas and all of them know what he contributed, though. Wouldn't you think? That's an effort and reputation you can take to the end of your career.

 

[yaco]

Riders have ridden the TDF with broken Vertebrae - Simon Clarke did it in 2021 as did Dan Martin in 2017 - Their performances afterward have been fine.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

On german Eurosport broadcast they just said he might have two broken vertebrae and miss vuelta. Helping crack pogacar with relentless attacking while having a broken back sure seems a very roglician thing to do.

How is it possible that this news only now got out? Bouwman said a couple days ago that he was going to ride the Vuelta ...that they were going for another GC win with Roglič. With the whole squad riding in support.

What I want to know is ....WHEN was it established that Rog suffered two broken vertebrae?

 

[bNator]

How is it possible that this news only now got out? Bouwman said a couple days ago that he was going to ride the Vuelta ...that they were going for another GC win with Roglič. With the whole squad riding in support.

What I want to know is ....WHEN was it established that Rog suffered two broken vertebrae?

Eurosport Germany yesterday during the stage, then later latin ESPN. It was “leaked” by Roglic’s agent…

edit: just summing up a Slovenian article. Didn’t actually watch/witness any of it…

 

[Rackham]

And it would be more nuts if there hadn't been a scan of his spine before he was allowed to ride. There is an NFL tough guy element necessary to participate in this sport, even if you don't get hurt from a crash. If Roglic and his handlers/team deemed the diagnosed condition was not detoriative and merited a day to day observation; Primoz would have an opinion that is definitive. He'd know when he couldn't contribute that it was time to stop. Sometimes that feeling comes at morning wake up....they can't/don't/shouldn't take the kind of pain blocking agents that impact sports guys and gals injest. He wasn't getting a chance to recover but he felt better about the effort he provided. Saying JV was sending Roglic anywhere suggests he doesn't know his condition. I would guess strongly that he knew and wanted to continue. He also was proving to JV that support for future events, including the Tour are pretty much guaranteed. How much he can rely on that is not something predictable.
Jonas and all of them know what he contributed, though. Wouldn't you think? That's an effort and reputation you can take to the end of your career.

With regards to 'sending' Roglic to attack Pogacar, the team's version of stage 11 is they asked Roglic if he'd launch an attack on Pogacar on the Galibier & he accepted.

But considering cycling is about pain management (to a large degree) I'd say it's a sport which absolutely requires some professional medical input on the issue of rider health after such a huge crash, i.e. no one is their own doctor & without even knowing what happened inside the team I can still definitively say it should be the responsibility of a qualified medical team to correctly diagnose a rider's physical condition before sending him to do anything.

The pressure to deliver in this TdF was huge for Jumbo & they needed Roglic to race as bait for Pogacar on the Galibier. But considering his real condition (again, if this news is verified), it was neglectful of Jumbo Visma to use a rider in such a way (especially their star GT rider).

Eurosport Germany yesterday during the stage, then later latin ESPN. It was “leaked” by Roglic’s agent…

edit: just summing up a Slovenian article. Didn’t actually watch/witness any of it…

I bet Jumbo won't be happy about the leak at a time they're enjoying what is inarguably their greatest week of 'sport' ever.

A lot of the confusion (& insults directed at Roglic for leaving from various commentators) could have been avoided had Jumbo released more than a short Tweet & a few pre-race comments from their ds Frans Maassen.

This is Primoz Roglic, not some no name scrub. Last year there was a whole video released where he said goodbye to his teammates & enjoyed some popular support with a group of Slovenians fans waiting for him in Tignes. This year? Nothing. The rumors, debate & innuendos about his motives happened because there was very little care given by his team in terms of presenting a proper send-off last Sunday.

 

[bNator]

I bet Jumbo won't be happy about the leak at a time they're enjoying what is inarguably their greatest week of 'sport' ever.

A lot of the confusion (& insults directed at Roglic for leaving from various commentators) could have been avoided had Jumbo released more than a short Tweet & a few pre-race comments from their ds Frans Maassen.

This is Primoz Roglic, not some no name scrub. Last year there was a whole video released where he said goodbye to his teammates & enjoyed some popular support with a group of Slovenians fans waiting for him in Tignes. This year? Nothing. The rumors, debate & innuendos about his motives happened because there was very little care given by his team in terms of presenting a proper send-off last Sunday.

Everything is very strange indeed. As far as I understood his injuries are not yet 100% confirmed? If they are not, then it's a big flop by his agent to leak them. If they are, then it's an even bigger flop that it was his agent and not TJV that published these news. What could be the reason for that? Did Roglic's agent go rogue and just leak it without even notifying TJV? Or did TJV refuse to publish the news either due to "not wanting to spoil the moment" or even worse due to being ashamed for making him race in that condition. Though According to them it was Roglic who wanted to race and TJV was the one who made him stop.

It's all a big mess right now and I hope we get some clarification soon. As for Roglic - I think he has some big decisions to make...

 

[Eeslliw]

Some of you are over invested. Ultimatly rider is responsible for his own health. As much as I like Roglics fighting spirit and going thru pain, he is about to be 33y old and by this time he should know how to take care of himself and that you can't just ride thru pain everytime and everything is going to be okay (Like in Basque Country, that was really wtf from Roglic and Jumbo-Visma).

The team is no saint, but more blame should fall on rider himself. No one is going to convince me that if Roglic would came to the team after stage 5 and said he is not able to continue, that the team wouldn't respect his decision and let him go home and recover.

 

[bNator]

Some of you are over invested. Ultimatly rider is responsible for his own health. As much as I like Roglics fighting spirit and going thru pain, he is about to be 33y old and by this time he should know how to take care of himself and that you can't just ride thru pain everytime and everything is going to be okay (Like in Basque Country, that was really wtf from Roglic and Jumbo-Visma).

The team is no saint, but more blame should fall on rider himself. No one is going to convince me that if Roglic would came to the team after stage 5 and said he is not able to continue, that the team wouldn't respect his decision and let him go home and recover.

I agree with that. The team can’t really be blamed as it stands right now especially since it was them who made Roglic DNS. The only blame they can take is if they let him race when they shouldn’t but as I understand his injury didn’t show up in the standard x-ray tests that they made. It showed later in the MRI which are not done during the race…

That being said - the general public which criticised Roglic for DNS should reconsider their trigger happy attitude with mouths, pens and keyboards…

 

[meat puppet]

Some of you are over invested. Ultimatly rider is responsible for his own health. As much as I like Roglics fighting spirit and going thru pain, he is about to be 33y old and by this time he should know how to take care of himself and that you can't just ride thru pain everytime and everything is going to be okay (Like in Basque Country, that was really wtf from Roglic and Jumbo-Visma).

The team is no saint, but more blame should fall on rider himself. No one is going to convince me that if Roglic would came to the team after stage 5 and said he is not able to continue, that the team wouldn't respect his decision and let him go home and recover.

Don't ruin the thread with sensible takes! The drama and salt is beginning to reach high school musical levels.

But carry on: Evil empire buggered poor Rogla, who deserves better for pulling the team up from the bootstraps. Winning the TDF with someone else from the team is, in fact, insulting and a failure as such.

Disclaimer: I like Roglic, especially respect his blue collar-esque working man's pride, and generally wish him to do well.

 

[Rackham]

Don't ruin the thread with sensible takes! The drama and salt is beginning to reach high school musical levels.

But carry on: Evil empire buggered poor Rogla, who deserves better for pulling the team up from the bootstraps. Winning the TDF with someone else from the team is, in fact, insulting and a failure as such.

I think that "Empire" (evil is a point of view in pro-cycling) literally buggered (lol @ that word, i.e. people should google it for a laugh) the entirety of the peloton & viewers as well.

It's the Jumbo Visma 2022 Tour de Buggery, i.e. everyone who was in their way got buggered. It's the Jumbo way.

 

[meat puppet]

I think that "Empire" (evil is a point of view in pro-cycling) literally buggered (lol @ that word, i.e. people should google it for a laugh) the entirety of the peloton & viewers as well.

It's the Jumbo Visma 2022 Tour de Buggery, i.e. everyone who was in their way got buggered. It's the Jumbo way.

The choice was intentional of course.

 

[Rackham]

The choice was intentional of course.

Indeed. I got that part.

Generally speaking I could delve further into the issue of Roglic's treatment by Jumbo & suggest comments which handwave criticism of this treatment as "high school musical" (words to that effect) might miss the context to a certain extent, i.e. especially insofar as pro-cycling teams themselves do really encourage a very simple & often infantile take on races & their intra-team life.

Just look at Jumbo's social media department: it's all tears, hugs, bro-fists & talk of "I'm winning for my partner & daughter" or "xyz inanity gave me strength to win" etc.

At face value it's all rather immature & straight out of a Hollywood movie (Netflix!). So when the reverse occurs, i.e. something bad happens to one of the riders & his treatment by his team since the beginning of the season deserves a question mark (i.e. from riding Itzulia with a knee injury to this TdF where he lacked support & rode with an injured back), then a sort of counter-balance in the form of WTF'ism directed at Jumbo can probably be expected.

Teams can't have it both ways: presenting carefully manicured pr videos, quotes & photo albums of a perfect happy winning team on one hand & then just throwing terse one liners into the social media sphere regarding riders who're no longer in the race or part of the team on the other. And to be fair, I made the exact same criticism regarding their treatment of Dumoulin when he announced his retirement, i.e. terseness is an understatement, Jumbo were ice-cold.

 

[Red Rick]

Indeed. I got that part.

Generally speaking I could delve further into the issue of Roglic's treatment by Jumbo & suggest comments which handwave criticism of this treatment as "high school musical" (words to that effect) might miss the context to a certain extent, i.e. especially insofar as pro-cycling teams themselves do really encourage a very simple & often infantile take on races & their intra-team life.

Just look at Jumbo's social media department: it's all tears, hugs, bro-fists & talk of "I'm winning for my partner & daughter" or "xyz inanity gave me strength to win" etc.

At face value it's all rather immature & straight out of a Hollywood movie (Netflix!). So when the reverse occurs, i.e. something bad happens to one of the riders & his treatment by his team since the beginning of the season deserves a question mark (i.e. from riding Itzulia with a knee injury to this TdF where he lacked support & rode with an injured back), then a sort of counter-balance in the form of WTF'ism directed at Jumbo can probably be expected.

Teams can't have it both ways: presenting carefully manicured pr videos, quotes & photo albums of a perfect happy winning team on one hand & then just throwing terse one liners into the social media sphere regarding riders who're no longer in the race or part of the team on the other. And to be fair, I made the exact same criticism regarding their treatment of Dumoulin when he announced his retirement, i.e. terseness is an understatement, Jumbo were ice-cold.

There was little to sugarcoat with Dumoulin. It's a move that didn't work out in any way. Jumbo gave Dumo the freedom and chances he needed. And while I don't doubt Jumbo respect Dumo's career, he achieved all his greatest wins at Giant-Sunweb or whatever name they were running.

Jumbo have a certain PR thing they like to trot out, that's true, but it doesn't have that much bearing on how they handled Roglic. Riders have finished the Tour with broken vertebra before which they didn't know at the time. There's not that much to take away from that. Arguably it's a bigger mistake they let Roglic race Itzulia this year.

Also, last year it was Roglic who decided to quit. This year it was Jumbo who decided he should be out.

 

[noob]

Let's hope it's Hanlons razor gone wrong yet another time this week and that it's not as bad as we fear. (The first time was the press accusing Lopez of being a drug dealer )