Just expected a fellow Roglic fan would have surely heard about these...
I simply do not know where this "they didn't support Roglic" comes from. Whats that narrative? They pulled 3 riders down for Roglic, similar to Vingegaard, and Wout pulled Roglic back on stage 11. He was given the same opportunities, but crashed, and during the season Wout and Vingegaard rode in support for Primoz, helping him winning Paris-Nice and Dauphine. Its kinda weird.A lot will depend on the team dynamics inside Jumbo (only Roglic knows whether he's happy or not, or whether he even trusts these people to give him a fair chance).
But from the outside, I could totally see why Ineos would be an interesting team for a rider like Roglic if he wants to beat the other supermen. Ineos ride more conservatively (like Roglic) & have a structure which would theoretically protect him & his teammates, instead of Jumbo's shooting from the hip with WvA firing bullets all over the road on every stage & a co-leader (Vingegaard) who is current TdF champion. Vingegaard & Pogacar could mark each other next year & if a rider like Roglic (for example) wants to benefit from that, then he'd need the tactical freedom to do so (at Jumbo there's a huge risk he never gets the chance if Vingegaard is ahead & has the yellow jersey).
It's an interesting conversation in any case, i.e. because riding another 'samey' season next year with Jumbo looks a bit depressing from the outside (especially as when it really mattered they pulled away his support & favored Vingegaard).
I simply do not know where this "they didn't support Roglic" comes from. Whats that narrative? They pulled 3 riders down for Roglic, similar to Vingegaard, and Wout pulled Roglic back on stage 11. He was given the same opportunities, but crashed, and during the season Wout and Vingegaard rode in support for Primoz, helping him winning Paris-Nice and Dauphine. Its kinda weird.
But as a Roglic fan, I want him to do what's best for his career & keep on give us some awesome stomps & entertainment as he races to win, not as a dom. And for me, leadership in the TdF (or even co-leadership with Bernal if he has recovered) at Ineos could be better than what he currently has.
I think thats an absolutely rubbish take, but we have discussed that before.
The team will only prioritise Vingegaard (to the detriment of the chances of Roglic), if they know that Vingegaard is stronger or more likely to win the TdF than Roglic at that time. I also believe that if the team's data shows that Roglic is the strongest of the two, the team will be favouring him. It is only fair that a team tries to optimize their chances to win the TdF.Team car for stage 5 featured WvA & Vingegaard's spare bikes on the better accessible side & Roglic was given the third spot (as mentioned on Eurosport).
Also, before the crash Jumbo had pulled everyone except Laporte back to assist Vingegaard & left Roglic (who was best placed on the road at that time) lacking support riders. His crash was a combination of real bad luck but also it has to be said a direct result of this lack of teammates. The worst case scenario hit right at the wrong time but Jumbo had already played their 'all for Vingegaard' cards.
I just don't think Roglic stands a chance of winning the TdF when the team car makes decisions which are detrimental to his chances.
Vingegaard had to wait up for Primoz at Dauphine to give him the win there. If that isn't support I don't know what it is.I simply do not know where this "they didn't support Roglic" comes from. Whats that narrative? They pulled 3 riders down for Roglic, similar to Vingegaard, and Wout pulled Roglic back on stage 11. He was given the same opportunities, but crashed, and during the season Wout and Vingegaard rode in support for Primoz, helping him winning Paris-Nice and Dauphine. Its kinda weird.
Vingegaard had to wait up for Primoz at Dauphine to give him the win there. If that isn't support I don't know what it is.
Wout had to pull Primoz on the last Mountain stage of Paris-Nice to help him win that race. Primoz just hasn't been that strong this year...Jumbo have tried to support him but when a rider is in decline you eventually have to face the facts and back stronger riders if you have them.
Well now Roglic can move along and go win another Vuelta...maybe. I'd suggest he try his luck at the Giro next year.And Jonas won this Tour edition alone? Both of the mentioned cyclist not helping him substantially?
As for stage 5. As this is what the discussion was about. JV did a poor job supporting Roglič. In all regards and on all levels. It's reasonable to expect Ineos would do a better job. Or Groupama–FDJ. Rogličes first real team.
Are you still discussing stage 5? I love Roglic, but the team is not at fault for what happened. As far as I remember WVA was at che back (possibly even in a different group) with SK senior, that's why he was with Vingo.
Ironically enough, that WVA crash was blessing in disguise for Jumbo. Wout doesn't crash------>stays at the front------>doesn't wait for Vingo, instead stays with Roglic. Tour might have been really different.
For Roglič this Tour ended at stage 5. Hence it will be always about stage 5. JV doing a poor job. I feel that your hectic description proves the point. JV was somewhere else. On a crucial stage.
Jumbo was with Vingegaard, he won the Tour and Roglic was important part of that win.
I bet Roglic feels happy for Jonas and the team and so you should. Get over it.
Are you implying Jumbo should've sent only one guy with JV and he finishes 4 minutes behind? Plus, I explained the reason why SK and WVA were behind, it's not like WVA was guiding Roglic, just leaving him alone the moment when Vingo had mechanical (or a flat, don't remember)
I am not trying to imply anything. I am saying it as bluntly as i can. In regards to Roglič JV did a poor job on stage 5. For me it's not about getting over it or anything like that at all. I am just merely stating the facts.
What did they do and what would you do if you were DS and why?
Please, try to be less of a fanboy and be more objective as you often miss the latter when discussing Roglic.
Sounds like a *** rumor to be honest.. with Dumoulin out, Jonas and Roglič are the only real GC contenders at Jumbo right now. He was leader of every stage race this year, won 2, crashed from third due to bad luck. If he goes to Vuelta he will again have full team support there. He also signed a contract till 2025.. he wouldn't do that if he didn't feel good in the team.
We have actually discussed this in this thread in length. But OK if you want to do it once more. The gist of it. On a crucial stage Roglič was left behind alone in a bunch to crash in some weird incident. In my book hence this comes down to JV doing a poor job. It's as simple as that.
I don't know what else would you like to discuss. Or on how could you pin point such view to a fanboy. No amount of discussions can turn that around in saying JV did a good job on stage 5 in regards to Roglič. They didn't. If you will still insist they did just that.
Then OK. Lets just agree on the common ground. And that is JV did Roglič a regards to stage 5. No point in denying that. They at least took the credit.
First things first, Roglic was not "left behind alone" until very late in the stage and that was normal. Maybe he was left in a front group with only one team mate but that's all about it.
Sorry, but all you say lacks any reasonable argument, hense why it seems you only put it from a fanboy point of view.
If you insist JV made a bad job, please care to explain what would you do differently and what would it change regarding JV's Tour afterward?
OK then you agree he was left alone back in the bunch. This hence is something we agree on and not to be some fanboy claim. As one can i guess always watch a replay.
Now i guess it's up to any reasonable individual to decide if that is a good or a poor job done by the team. And this by itself offers the answer to your additional question. On what could or couldn't be done better.
I can live with that.