Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[waku waku]

Incredible, after Colbrelli last year, he was sent down again by the Bahrain idiots. Can they ban the team or will they continue to let them purposely make Roglic crash? Of course part of the blame also lies with the team, how is it possible with 100 meters to go they have no one to keep Roglic at the front of the pack! Were they waiting for Vingegaard again?!

Of course to make matters worse the idiot Bambi had to fake a puncture when he couldn't keep the pace and was going to lose more than 1 minute. And of course the jury gave him the time of the 2nd group. Shameful!

Hopefully Roglic recovers well tonight because everyone knows that if he's at least at 50% of his capacities he will easily win this Vuelta.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Incredible, after Colbrelli last year, he was sent down again by the Bahrain idiots. Can they ban the team or will they continue to let them purposely make Roglic crash? Of course part of the blame also lies with the team, how is it possible with 100 meters to go they have no one to keep Roglic at the front of the pack! Were they waiting for Vingegaard again?!

Of course to make matters worse the idiot Bambi had to fake a puncture when he couldn't keep the pace and was going to lose more than 1 minute. And of course the jury gave him the time of the 2nd group. Shameful!

Hopefully Roglic recovers well tonight because everyone knows that if he's at least at 50% of his capacities he will easily win this Vuelta.

Lol wut

 

[Carols]

I think these many crashes began when he really became world class. It‘s weird. The better he seems to get, the worse his bike handling obviously gets.

It‘s bad luck also, but happens too often to just be bad luck.

David Moncoutie was another very good rider with poor bike handling skills. His solution was to stay at the tail end of the bunch whenever possible. No solution for Primoz, of course.

I mean, of course, Primoz now has been a pro cyclist for ten years, riding his road bike for 100.000s of kms. His bike handling clearly is great, compared to Average Joe. He, however, is a rather bad bike handler compared to most other absolutely world class road racers. Reason could be that he, as Miha described, didn‘t race before 2012. This late start now seems problematic, as far as bike handling is concerned…

That was his 2nd crash this season, and the first was caused by a hay bale. His handling isn't nearly as bad as you make it sound. It's just because he is always in the GC fight that people perceive it is because a crash effects his chances at the title.

 

[Carols]

Maybe there's also some truth in what people in the peloton have said, that he and other JV riders overestimate themselves. Maybe he's not a bad bike handler per se, but takes risks he better shouldn't take, gets too close to other riders, takes corners on descents too tight... such things?

I've heard that guys say things like he was a ski jumper he's totally fearless!

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

That was his 2nd crash this season, and the first was caused by a hay bale. His handling isn't nearly as bad as you make it sound. It's just because he is always in the GC fight that people perceive it is because a crash effects his chances at the title.

He is far from a disaster. Honestly, it is unbelievable that Lance won 7 straight Tours on the road. Setting aside clinic and competition; who else has managed to stay upright for 7 straight target GTs / in prep for them? No one I can think of since then. Maybe Nibali? Not Contador, Wiggins, Froome, Dumo, Roglic.

 

[Bonimenier]

He is far from a disaster. Honestly, it is unbelievable that Lance won 7 straight Tours on the road. Setting aside clinic and competition; who else has managed to stay upright for 7 straight target GTs / in prep for them? No one I can think of since then. Maybe Nibali? Not Contador, Wiggins, Froome, Dumo, Roglic.

Armstrong didn't stay upright in all 7 Tours though

 

[JosefK]

Armstrong didn't stay upright in all 7 Tours though

Yes, there was that stage where Lance's handlebar got hooked on the strap of a spectator's carry bag going up a mountain road and he got yanked off the bike. Then Ullrich waited up (and Lance ended up dusting all his competition by the end of the stage). But Lance didn't seem to hit the ground very hard.

 

[noob]

Old documentary, but the way Lora and the Slovenians talks about him in this documentary shaped my views on him; obsessed with winning, risking everything to win, and fearless.
And I think he's addicted to adrenaline on top of it.
So sad about today's outcome.

 

[noob]

Interesting analysis. He's way more optimistic than I am.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Armstrong didn't stay upright in all 7 Tours though

I think he has two crashes, both in 2003 if I'm not mistaken, regardless it's still an amazing record when looking at other great riders DNF's ect.

 

[Nick2413]

Interesting analysis. He's way more optimistic than I am.

Horner has a very gladiator-like mindset and probably didn’t even consider the possibility that Roglic might not even be able to race. Not that Roglic isn’t a gladiator, but Horner is almost a bit robot-like in assuming the race will always be on, which I kind of like about his analysis.

 

[CyclistAbi]

First of i will start with congratulating Primož for his performance on stage 16. He gained 8s on race leader on a sprint stage. He by far being the strongest going in week 3 in regards to GC favorites.

As for JV and lead out. He had some help from Gesink. If i am not mistaken. Beyond that he was on his own. I expected a stronger lead out from JV. Or at least to put some pressure on the peloton in previous kilometers.

As for the crash. Luckily nothing was broken. For sure it will affect him. Lets hope he can continue. Even injured i feel he is still the strongest from the GC bunch.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I hope Roglic can continue and it was just superficial wounds but the crash looked like a hard one. He also looked pretty out of it so hopefully there wasn’t any concussion either.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

First of i will start with congratulating Primož for his performance on stage 16. He gained 8s on race leader on a sprint stage. He by far being the strongest going in week 3 in regards to GC favorites.

As for JV and lead out. He had some help from Gesink. If i am not mistaken. Beyond that he was on his own. I expected a stronger lead out from JV. Or at least to put some pressure on the peloton in previous kilometers.

As for the crash. Luckily nothing was broken. For sure it will affect him. Lets hope he can continue. Even injured i feel he is still the strongest from the GC bunch.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Week 3 has been 1 stage so far. So claiming he is the strongest of GC riders in week 3 is certainly interesting. Especially considering his nearest rival in GC didn't get the chance to show how good he was (or not). Furthermore, two days ago he certainly didn't look to be the strongest of the GC riders at all. But of course we need to fuel the ''if only'' hypothesis, i understand.

Anyway, considering he has supposedly acknowledged to not care about 2nd or 3rd place, i hope he makes a sensible decision and only continues if he feels he can and is strong enough to contest the Vuelta. If he knows he can not win anymore, and he really doesn't care about finishing 2nd, he should not take any risks with his injuries, especially considering he was still recovering from his old injuries. So if he continues, i'd assume he feels the crash will not hamper him to fight for the win.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Logic-is-your-friend

Didn't you call him a wheel sucker just one stage back? But anyway Remco has been losing time consistently now. For the past couple of stages.

Not just stage 16.

 

[Oldermanish]

Week 3 has been 1 stage so far. So claiming he is the strongest of GC riders in week 3 is certainly interesting. Especially considering his nearest rival in GC didn't get the chance to show how good he was (or not). Furthermore, two days ago he certainly didn't look to be the strongest of the GC riders at all. But of course we need to fuel the ''if only'' hypothesis, i understand.

Anyway, considering he has supposedly acknowledged to not care about 2nd or 3rd place, i hope he makes a sensible decision and only continues if he feels he can and is strong enough to contest the Vuelta. If he knows he can not win anymore, and he really doesn't care about finishing 2nd, he should not take any risks with his injuries, especially considering he was still recovering from his old injuries. So if he continues, i'd assume he feels the crash will not hamper him to fight for the win.

Another wishful scenario, IMO. The whole "3 week" experience is pretty much a non-marker for predictions. Remco's never been there and Primoz had so little specific training that it's an irrelevant reference now. Except for Mas and the other top 10 who actually could pull off a gang attack that neither of our primary combatants could counter.
The rest is trolling bs. Let the rider's ride and enjoy your seated viewing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

@Logic-is-your-friend

Didn't you call him a wheel sucker just one stage back? But anyway Remco has been losing time consistently now. For the past couple of stages.

Not just stage 16.

I said he was wheelsucking. Which he was, or do you wish to contest that? I can't recall calling him a wheelsucker, which would imply he is generally a rider who will wheelsuck. I don't think i did the latter, and if i did, it was the former which i meant. I also specified that the wheelsucking by itself was not the big issue for me, it was that it was followed by what i would call a suckerpunch attack, as in something he shouldn't feel proud of. It is the combination of wheelsucking and the cheap shot attack 1.5k from the line, that doesn't exactly cover him in glory. But if you want to have this same discussion again, maybe just read the stage topic again.

Remco has been losing time consistently indeed. But not because he was consistently the lesser rider. Today he had a flat while Roglic was able to attack, so we don't know. Three days ago Evenepoel was suffering from his bruise. And two days ago Evenepoel was stronger.

But i don't see the relevance with what i wrote in my previous post.

Another wishful scenario, IMO. The whole "3 week" experience is pretty much a non-marker for predictions. Remco's never been there and Primoz had so little specific training that it's an irrelevant reference now. Except for Mas and the other top 10 who actually could pull off a gang attack that neither of our primary combatants could counter.
The rest is trolling bs. Let the rider's ride and enjoy your seated viewing.

Are you saying he is trolling or i'm trolling. I'm simply pointing out that just one day ago everybody jumped to Roglic' defense to justify his choices on Sierra Nevada, because he didn't care about 2nd or 3rd place. So i think it only makes sense that he will now only continue if he feels he still has a shot at winning.

 

[Oldermanish]

I said he was wheelsucking. Which he was, or do you wish to contest that? I can't recall calling him a wheelsucker, which would imply he is generally a rider who will wheelsuck. I don't think i did the latter, and if i did, it was the former which i meant. I also specified that the wheelsucking by itself was not the big issue for me, it was that it was followed by what i would call a suckerpunch attack, as in something he shouldn't feel proud of. It is the combination of wheelsucking and the cheap shot attack 1.5k from the line, that doesn't exactly cover him in glory. But if you want to have this same discussion again, maybe just read the stage topic again.

Remco has been losing time consistently indeed. But not because he was consistently the lesser rider. Today he had a flat while Roglic was able to attack, so we don't know. Three days ago Evenepoel was suffering from his bruise. And two days ago Evenepoel was stronger.

But i don't see the relevance with what i wrote in my previous post.


Are you saying he is trolling or i'm trolling. I'm simply pointing out that just one day ago everybody jumped to Roglic' defense to justify his choices on Sierra Nevada, because he didn't care about 2nd or 3rd place. So i think it only makes sense that he will now only continue if he feels he still has a shot at winning.

Semantics and characterizations.....be a fan but be a real expert, please. Creating scenarios and conclusions just feed the undernourished.

 

[Nick2413]

Week 3 has been 1 stage so far. So claiming he is the strongest of GC riders in week 3 is certainly interesting. Especially considering his nearest rival in GC didn't get the chance to show how good he was (or not). Furthermore, two days ago he certainly didn't look to be the strongest of the GC riders at all. But of course we need to fuel the ''if only'' hypothesis, i understand.

Anyway, considering he has supposedly acknowledged to not care about 2nd or 3rd place, i hope he makes a sensible decision and only continues if he feels he can and is strong enough to contest the Vuelta. If he knows he can not win anymore, and he really doesn't care about finishing 2nd, he should not take any risks with his injuries, especially considering he was still recovering from his old injuries. So if he continues, i'd assume he feels the crash will not hamper him to fight for the win.

I think it’s going a bit far to say continuing on means he feels the crash is not going to hamper his fight for the win. It is certain to have at least some affect, but he may continue not knowing exactly how it will go and only find out a couple stages later whether he can be near his best or not. It should be pretty clear how impactful the injuries are by the end of stage 17 if he starts.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Logic-is-your-friend

If you generally don't believe Roglič is a wheel sucker. Well then in the end we basically agree. As for stage 15. I would call it for what it was. A rather ordinary Roglstomp. I know what aspect you don't like about it. As Evenepoel paced and kept the gap. But this was the choice Evenepoel made. If the situation would be reversed. I am sure that you wouldn't blame Evenepoel for it.

As for:

Remco has been losing time consistently indeed.

I will borrow this stance from the stage 15 discussion.

My claim is backed up by the results of the stage and the objective of road bicycle racing.

You can't argue with that. Well you could but ATM this seems trivial to me. Getting through the night, back on the bike, and then to undertake it stage by stage.

And maybe there will still be something worth discussing about. In regards to the trends and beyond.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Semantics and characterizations.....be a fan but be a real expert, please. Creating scenarios and conclusions just feed the undernourished.

Hard to have a discussion when you are being this vague. Who is trolling, which arguments do you feel are semantics? If you are referring to the wheelsucking/wheelsucker part, i would very much disagree that this is a matter of semantics. Everybody can do things (good or bad) that do not necessarily have to define them. I also didn't start the "strongest of week 3" argument based on just 1 stage.

I think it’s going a bit far to say continuing on means he feels the crash is not going to hamper his fight for the win. It is certain to have at least some affect, but he may continue not knowing exactly how it will go and only find out a couple stages later whether he can be near his best or not. It should be pretty clear how impactful the injuries are by the end of stage 17 if he starts.

I can't imagine the crash not having an impact. Personally i hope he can continue and defend his 2nd spot but only if doing so is no health risk. If i were him i would bow out in case he doesn't believe he can finish on the podium anymore. While i very much doubt he doesn't care about the podium, i can see how he might not care too much about continuing if it meant dropping to 6th or 7th in GC. In that case maybe there are other goals ahead (Lombardia for instance) to prepare for.

 

[SHAD0W93]

@Logic-is-your-friend

If you generally don't believe Roglič is a wheel sucker. Well then in the end we basically agree. As for stage 15. I would call it for what it was. A rather ordinary Roglstomp.

As for:



I will borrow this stance from the stage 15 discussion.

No, you both don’t agree on anything that stage because you don’t believe he (smartly)wheel sucked to recover at all and was the strongest that day.

If anything it was an unordinary Roglstomp as ordinarily he does that after his team or himself sets the pace or attacks more than once the last 20 kms.

Maybe if Roglic wore the vest you’d like the riders to wear, he’d be in better shape. Or maybe he would have hit his head worse than he did.

 

[dazaau]

I didn't watch, didn't think much would happen - the worst. It looks like Roglic was going to go ballistic this week - and now this I hate crashes.

 

[houtdffan]

Rog is becoming the new Contador with all his crashes

 

[Oldermanish]

No, you both don’t agree on anything that stage because you don’t believe he (smartly)wheel sucked to recover at all and was the strongest that day.

If anything it was an unordinary Roglstomp as ordinarily he does that after his team or himself sets the pace or attacks more than once the last 20 kms.

Maybe if Roglic wore the vest you’d like the riders to wear, he’d be in better shape. Or maybe he would have hit his head worse than he did.

Here's the thing for the chronic second-guessers and after the fact experts....in week 3 of the last GT of the season strategy will play to each team and rider's needs. Teams on the edge of WT relegation are desparate for riders to gain points, any points. Their income depends on coming through.
Everyone is tired and injured to some extent. Team support is minimal. It makes for weird and often heroic riding.

Reality check for the last week: there is no such thing as wheelsucking on a 160km Alpine stage with 10,000' (+) and relentless 7% climbs in the last week. It's survival, strategic setup for whatever attack someone can muster and the ultimate consequences of people cracking and dropping from contention. We can call them weak, COWARDLY, duplicitious or unsporting in the upcoming days. We could do it quietly because they are doing the riding and we're nowhere near knowledgable enough to actually know how they feel and what they're capable of. We get heroic efforts in this situation we all hope.
If you want to see real big money strategy, duplicity and failure just watch the F1 Belgium race.