I guess Rogla and Jonas will just have to fight it out at the Tour 2024 then.
P.S. And to hope they won't be the losers again.
P.S. And to hope they won't be the losers again.
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So keep the winner of the 2 previous editions at home? Who gets fired if Roglic doesn't win it again?In retrospective i feel that they made a mistake. That is in season 2023 Rogla should have sole leadership at Giro-Vuelta and Jonas at the Tour. In 2024 they should then switch. I don't know why they thought bringing them both to Vuelta would be a good thing.
Sure, they will likely win 1, 2 and 3. Still realistically they did a lot of damage too. Tainted relationships and the image of their champions and things like that. Rather stupid.
He didn't want internal fight after the rest day, but yet he was first to attack.Well, there you have it. Halter, Kuss, and Vinge all confirmed that the team and riders agreed prior to Angliru that the three leaders would race it out. I see no reason not to believe them and no reason to say any of them did anything wrong, though I do think some decisions didn’t go Roglic way. After Angliru, they decided Kuss would win and Roglic agreed and let all sources is happy for Kuss even though he’s disappoint for himself.
"We had agreed that we would race for the red jersey, and it was clear that if the other two duel over it, then I also want to be involved. I would have liked that after the rest day, we had not fought for [the red jersey] anymore and had just ridden defensively. But we decided that we should fight for it, so then I was also put in a bit of a difficult situation, I think.
"I would have liked to see that it had been made earlier. It ends up with Sepp still winning – hopefully."
-Vingegaard
So it's Moviestar making the first move. Their budget is going up and they made an offer to Roglič.
Why not? Everyone says Kuss should be happy to lead Rog and Vin to victories because he's paid handsomely to do so. Why shouldn't Roglič be happy to be paid handsomely to win many of the races he targets? So he had to bend to his employer's will and probably not win a GT that he possibly could have won, because his teammate was already leading it - so what? He's paid to do what the team tell him to do (assuming it's in accordance with the terms of his contract).I honestly don't see how he can ever race with Vingegaard ever again considering what happened here), it seems like Jumbo have ruined the relationship with their most iconic rider & pretty much symbol of the team. He was the guy who made modern Jumbo serial winners.
Game, Set, Match.Hmm. You are right.
Weird. I had to look it up.
Do u remember how he did it?
It doesn't sound like either of us has read their contracts but I wouldn't be surprised if each of them has support guarantees; particularly if they have won a GT. There may be additional incentives for their UCI ranking as well. Roglic may love the idea of Kuss winning but not as his deep financial expense and season 2024 primacy. If he'd won the Vuelta on top of the Giro he'd be in a much better bargaining position. Jonas; he's got the big prize on his side and will be at the start in France, for sure.Why not? Everyone says Kuss should be happy to lead Rog and Vin to victories because he's paid handsomely to do so. Why shouldn't Roglič be happy to be paid handsomely to win many of the races he targets? So he had to bend to his employer's will and probably not win a GT that he possibly could have won, because his teammate was already leading it - so what? He's paid to do what the team tell him to do (assuming it's in accordance with the terms of his contract).
Reasonable take.It doesn't sound like either of us has read their contracts but I wouldn't be surprised if each of them has support guarantees; particularly if they have won a GT. There may be additional incentives for their UCI ranking as well. Roglic may love the idea of Kuss winning but not as his deep financial expense and season 2024 primacy. If he'd won the Vuelta on top of the Giro he'd be in a much better bargaining position. Jonas; he's got the big prize on his side and will be at the start in France, for sure.
Now place both of them in a situation where Kuss can win, but whomever finishes second becomes UCI #1 and the other #2. If I were Roglic I'd be seriously piss*d off at that situation seeing as the big winner for small effort was Vingo.
If JV management called a truce and suggested to both of those guys that they'd each start the Tour on equal footing does that solve the problem? Doesn't look like a way out here. JV management may not care if feelings are hurt....right up to the point where one of their aces gets hurt enough to not contest a key race with the level of competition out there. Can Jonas beat a healthy Pogacar next year without Roglic's help? Remco has learned a few things this Vuelta so stirring that ingredient into the stew would suggest they better keep both guys happy. And Kuss.
He’ll never win the tour. It was 2020 or never.
So it's Moviestar making the first move. Their budget is going up and they made an offer to Roglič.
He was also able to win it the year after. And the year before.He’ll never win the tour. It was 2020 or never.
He was also able to win it the year after. And the year before.
Hence they are referred to as missed opportunitiesPretty sure he didn't even start the Tour in 2019.
And in 2021 he crashed out.
The criticism of team management was mostly easy and cheap. None of these "experts" have ever been in this situation themselves. Or if they have, like Johan Bruyneel (albeit with just two leaders) they didn't exactly do any better. Should Jumbo management have told the three guys to stop racing and just defend their position, they'd have been equally critical of Jumbo's intent to kill the race. Wouldn't that have been outright boring? More than a week of just doing nothing and clearly holding back for Sepp Kuss. Or did you like Thursday's stage?Reasonable take.
Ultimately, this Vuelta drama is down to poor talent management. I actually don't think Roglič or Vingegaard are evil, or Kuss is saintly. Just rationally self-interested riders who also realize who signs the checks.
So it's the Köchli-esque directing that deserves criticism, and while [almost?] all the major English-language commentators, ex-riders, journalists, etc who I follow criticized team management, it's understandably what happens on the road b/w the riders that captures the attention of the more casual fan and media.
*Update: I now hope Roglič cracks Kuss tomorrow and takes the lead, since I just bet him to win the overall at (+4000)!
By never giving up.Hmm. You are right.
Weird. I had to look it up.
Do u remember how he did it?
Yep. Already in July next yearGame, Set, Match.
🔥🔥🔥
Seriously though, do you guys think Roglič will ever win a GT again, or has this broken him?
That really says more about you than about Roglic actually.Hmm. You are right.
Weird. I had to look it up.
Do u remember how he did it?
He looks extremely unhappy. May quit cycling all together. Probably considering career in dressage.
I'm hearing 3 teams right now: Trek, Movistar & Ineos.
It's all a bit 'melancholic' really (that's the word I think fits here). But Jumbo brought this on themselves. They operate a sweatshop over there in the Netherlands where their top riders sooner or later become Kruijswijk, i.e. pulling on the front of the bunch for 50km in the Tour of Britain. They had Rog doing something similar in the TdF last year & probably would have taken him to the TdF 2023 as long as he accepted a servant role. Even Zeeman was trying to talk him out of aiming for the Tour.
It's humiliating because it came way, way too soon & all Jumbo had eyes for was Vineggaard's watts. They totally forgot Rog existed IMO (& where they were before his rise to the top).
That's why the Angliru was a sweet win.
Roglic has a contract until 2025 though.INEOS would make the most sense