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Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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KZD

KZD

Feb 21, 2019
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Oldermanish said:
There is that little token he took from the Olympics, too. How many of the other riders up for that consideration have won a Gold?
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While the Olympics are the biggest sportive event in the world, the pros are only racing it since the 90s so obviously all of the greats that have come before couldn't have won gold there.

Then, there is the fact that he won the TT race which is the lesser race when compared to the RR in major Championships. If
he wins the RR next year in Paris it would be a bigger achievement at least from a purely cycling perspective.

@CyclistAbi I think I've read it yes. But then again, while its a nice race to have in the palmarés its not on the same level of Grand Tours, major Championships or monuments which are the kind of races that define the career of a champion like Roglič.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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I guess each champion adds a personal touch to it. That is Rogla dreamt of an Olympic gold since his ski jumping days. He in my opinion wouldn't trade it for WC gold medal. Instead likely he will aim for both. Week long stage racing is something he in my opinion takes very seriously. That is on why he writes history racing them. I agree that a casual cycling fan might rate week long stage racing a bit lower, then GTs, nonetheless under Rogličes era week long stage races have become a thing of prestige too.

As for GTs. He is doing two per year, for sure he will add some more. With passion. Monuments. First Slovenian to win one. Held beautifully on Ganda on the last one. Pogi used disc brakes on the descent to his advantage. Next time Rogla will came more prepared.
 
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AmRacer

Sep 1, 2023
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CyclistAbi said:
I guess each champion adds a personal touch to it. That is Rogla dreamt of an Olympic gold since his ski jumping days. He in my opinion wouldn't trade it for WC gold medal. Instead likely he will aim for both. Week long stage racing is something he in my opinion takes very seriously. That is on why he writes history racing them. I agree that a casual cycling fan might rate week long stage racing a bit lower, then GTs, nonetheless under Rogličes era week long stage races have become a thing of prestige too.

As for GTs. He is doing two per year, for sure he will add some more. With passion. Monuments. First Slovenian to win one. Held beautifully on Ganda on the last one. Pogi used disc brakes on the descent to his advantage. Next time Rogla will came more prepared.
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Rogla was prepared, he won Emilia.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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AmRacer said:
We all know downhill isn't Rogla territory. ;)
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Not true. Rogla is superb on downhill too. It's just that at the last monument Pogi was better. Pogi admitted he used disc brakes to his advantage. A detail Rogla can include next time. As contrary to stage racing Rogla didn't focus all that much on monuments at JV. Team had other riders for that. At Bora who knows. Maybe more emphasis on monuments for Rogla too.
 
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Blanco

Blanco

Jun 6, 2017
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KZD said:
Winning Tour de Suisse will not make a significant difference for Roglič. One week stage races are not as important as Grand Tours or even momuments that is why riders like Merckx or Hinault never cared too much about them

Winning the Tour, that's what would bring him to another level in cycling history or if not the Tour then a WCRR title.

Hope that his achievements stand the test of time, of course.
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Tour de Suisse is a pretty big race to have on your palmares, but not so much if you're Primoz Roglic.
But, what we're talking about here, is that if Rogla wins that Suisse he becomes the only rider in history of cycling who won all of the 7 big one-week stage races, and I think nobody, beside him, even has 6.
And if you add the Tour, he'll be the rider who won every damn one of the 10 stage races that counts, achievement that would require some serious time to be reached,
 
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Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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KZD said:
While the Olympics are the biggest sportive event in the world, the pros are only racing it since the 90s so obviously all of the greats that have come before couldn't have won gold there.

Then, there is the fact that he won the TT race which is the lesser race when compared to the RR in major Championships. If
he wins the RR next year in Paris it would be a bigger achievement at least from a purely cycling perspective.

@CyclistAbi I think I've read it yes. But then again, while its a nice race to have in the palmarés its not on the same level of Grand Tours, major Championships or monuments which are the kind of races that define the career of a champion like Roglič.
Click to expand...
I meant the medal acheivement in light of his immediate peers' palamares. The answer is Pidcock and then nobody. The TT is a "lesser" race except to serious contenders like Remco, Pogacar, WVA that have legendary ambitions. The opportunity comes but once each 4 years and investing in that one event can be fruitless. The RR has had surprise endings in the last editions while a WC RR happens every year.
As you grade the qualities of legends the factor of quality of competition places a high value on wins. This current generation is deeper than almost any in recollection with serious specialists in every type of race. His accomplishments across the board so far in this era would suggest he has the status you'd conditionally confer, IMO. Winning a Tour and a WCRR would make it easier for the nationalists and casual fans to accept his status without question, though.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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Blanco said:
Tour de Suisse is a pretty big race to have on your palmares, but not so much if you're Primoz Roglic.
But, what we're talking about here, is that if Rogla wins that Suisse he becomes the only rider in history of cycling who won all of the 7 big one-week stage races, and I think nobody, beside him, even has 6.
And if you add the Tour, he'll be the rider who won every damn one of the 10 stage races that counts, achievement that would require some serious time to be reached,
Click to expand...
But not all major tours are equal just like TDF is bigger than Giro/Vuelta. I mean Roglic barely won Paris-Nice, WVA won it for him, there are others that won it multiple times.

Still remarkable, and still one of the best 1-week stage racers ever. I would just never call him the best. I would even dare to say that Pogacar is better, he’s just younger and has a wider focus on different targets.
 
K

kn0s

Jul 25, 2022
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CyclistAbi said:
I meant downhill. Pushing the limits of disc brakes. Just like Pogi did.

P.S. Uphill Rogla was indeed superb yes. Not much else to work on there.
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What is this disc brake "excuse"? Didn't Roglic say after the race that he was fully in the red and on the way to never, never land at the top? Don't think disc brake magic had much to do with it. Group two syndrome did help pogi of course, but we see that all the time.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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kn0s said:
What is this disc brake "excuse"? Didn't Roglic say after the race that he was fully in the red and on the way to never, never land at the top? Don't think disc brake magic had much to do with it. Group two syndrome did help pogi of course, but we see that all the time.
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Would likely be a much different race if Rogla would stay with Pogi on the downhill. It's not excuse. Pogi said it himself. That this time he used disc brakes to his advantage. Likely training and experience. On what plan B could be if he won't drop others on Ganda.
 
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pablohidalgo7

Aug 31, 2014
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Berniece said:
But not all major tours are equal just like TDF is bigger than Giro/Vuelta. I mean Roglic barely won Paris-Nice, WVA won it for him, there are others that won it multiple times.

Still remarkable, and still one of the best 1-week stage racers ever. I would just never call him the best. I would even dare to say that Pogacar is better, he’s just younger and has a wider focus on different targets.
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Well barely maybe that year, but he could have 3 Paris Nice indeed. In 2021 he was smashing the race until his crash the last day and in 2020 he was super focus for it but Jumbo pulled out before the race due to covid situation, somedays later he uploaded a superb training in Strava, 0 doubts he would have destroyed the rivals of that edition. Also he should have 2 Dauphiné instead of 1 (legswise).
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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CyclistAbi said:
Better because he is younger?
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Because his trackrecord for major tours is already very impressive for his age. Last year he won Paris-Nice, the year before Tirreno, the year before that (2021) also Tirreno when he was only 22 years old.

My opinion is that in 2021, Roglic was the best of them all in GT's and Major Tours, but this changed in 2022. In 2022 Pogacar became the best in major tours, and Vingegaard in GT's. Roglic is fast in the last 500m, but I think Pogacar is faster. Pogacar is also better in longer climbs. When it comes to time trialing, I'm not sure, but Pogacar is pretty good too. But those 3 will decide who wins a 1-week stage race. I can't see Roglic winning that from Pogacar.

I hope they both start in the same race (Tirreno or Paris-Nice) this year, we'll see what happens.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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@Berniece

Then again Rogla really started winning in 2019. It's not like it took Rogla a decade. To win all this races. Season 2023 in my opinion was one of the best. For the mister 100%.

As for racing against Pogi on stage races, especially at the Tour. Here i don't mind if you feel Pogi or Jonas is better in some areas. As the whole premise of this debate is, would Rogla winning the Tour 2024 cement him as the best stage racer of this generation? So obvisuly is favourable for Rogla if there is a belief Pogi and Jonas are great or some even claiming better. That only adds to the prestige. We'll see.
 
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AmRacer

Sep 1, 2023
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CyclistAbi said:
@Berniece

Then again Rogla really started winning in 2019. It's not like it took Rogla a decade. To win all this races. Season 2023 in my opinion was one of the best. For the mister 100%.

As for racing against Pogi on stage races, especially at the Tour. Here i don't mind if you feel Pogi or Jonas is better in some areas. As the whole premise of this debate is, would Rogla winning the Tour 2024 cement him as the best stage racer of this generation? So obvisuly is favourable for Rogla if there is a belief Pogi and Jonas are great or some even claiming better. That only adds to the prestige. We'll see.
Click to expand...
There's one old cyclist in the Peloton that's a better stage racer.
 
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Blanco

Blanco

Jun 6, 2017
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Berniece said:
But not all major tours are equal just like TDF is bigger than Giro/Vuelta. I mean Roglic barely won Paris-Nice, WVA won it for him, there are others that won it multiple times.

Still remarkable, and still one of the best 1-week stage racers ever. I would just never call him the best. I would even dare to say that Pogacar is better, he’s just younger and has a wider focus on different targets.
Click to expand...
You maybe think Pogacar's ceiling is higher, which is ok, it certainly looks like it is, but you can't claim he's better if the results can't back that up, which they can't in this case...
 
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rallybanana

Apr 27, 2022
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KZD said:
While the Olympics are the biggest sportive event in the world, the pros are only racing it since the 90s so obviously all of the greats that have come before couldn't have won gold there.

Then, there is the fact that he won the TT race which is the lesser race when compared to the RR in major Championships. If
he wins the RR next year in Paris it would be a bigger achievement at least from a purely cycling perspective.
Click to expand...

I agree that at World Championships the road race is much more prestigious. At Olympics however, I think the time trial is the more prestigious. A great time trialist will win a handful of world championships during their career but an Olympic gold medal is the crowning achievement. Compare Cancellara and Martin.
 
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