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Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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Gargamel35

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Sciatic said:
I believe they were well aware he wasn’t likely to beat a top-end Pogacar or Vingegaard at the Tour, so their investment was based on wider range of return.
Click to expand...
Berniece keeps the same [deleted] agenda all the time. Bora paid 5M to Roglič for winning TdF. Which is completely wrong.

They are not idiots. They paid to have a shot at fighting for TdF win. They didn't have that before. There was no better GC racer available. The better two stayed in their teams.
It's exposure that brings money. It's Red Bull that brings money. It's being in the top 4 talk that brings money.

More than enough for punny 5M a year.
Oh, and R. already brought them a very nice stage race win to go with it.
 
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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

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johnymax said:
As a GC rider in WT races only Pogačar has done better than Roglič this year. Despite the crash and DNF in Itzulia, Rogla still has 1 GC win and three stage wins. Like I said better than any other rider not named Pogačar.
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That’s arguable and depends on how you measure it.
Roglic; 10th, 1st, and 3 stage wins in 3 WT stage races with 1 crash out,
Rodriquez; 2nd, 1st, 4th, and 2 stage wins in 4 WT stage races,
Vingegaard; 1st and 2 stage wins in 2 WT stage races with 1 crash out,
Ayuso; 2nd, 1st, and 5th in 4 WT stage races with 1 crash out,
Jorgenson; 1st and 2nd in 2 WT stage races.

All very similar. Off the top of my head most might have more UCI and PCS points due to better placings.
 
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Sciatic

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Gargamel35 said:
Berniece keeps the same [content deleted] agenda all the time. Bora paid 5M to Roglič for winning TdF. Which is completely wrong.

They are not idiots. They paid to have a shot at fighting for TdF win. They didn't have that before. There was no better GC racer available. The better two stayed in their teams.
It's exposure that brings money. It's Red Bull that brings money. It's being in the top 4 talk that brings money.

More than enough for punny 5M a year.
Oh, and R. already brought them a very nice stage race win to go with it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, owners or managers of sports teams, like you’re saying, are of course going play up a big new acquisition and say it is about winning it all, or the current fav phrase “getting to the next level.” They’re boosting interest in their team (and thus attention to their sponsor), higher visibility in the biggest races, and also justifying their purchase to their sponsors.
 
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johnymax

johnymax

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SHAD0W93 said:
That’s arguable and depends on how you measure it.
Roglic; 10th, 1st, and 3 stage wins in 3 WT stage races with 1 crash out,
Rodriquez; 2nd, 1st, 4th, and 2 stage wins in 4 WT stage races,
Vingegaard; 1st and 2 stage wins in 2 WT stage races with 1 crash out,
Ayuso; 2nd, 1st, and 5th in 4 WT stage races with 1 crash out,
Jorgenson; 1st and 2nd in 2 WT stage races.

All very similar. Off the top of my head most might have more UCI and PCS points due to better placings.
Click to expand...
Correct. It depends if you count UCI points or wins. I counted wins where Roglič is ahead of everybody on your list.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

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Gargamel35 said:
Berniece keeps the same [content deleted] agenda all the time. Bora paid 5M to Roglič for winning TdF. Which is completely wrong.

They are not idiots. They paid to have a shot at fighting for TdF win. They didn't have that before. There was no better GC racer available. The better two stayed in their teams.
It's exposure that brings money. It's Red Bull that brings money. It's being in the top 4 talk that brings money.

More than enough for punny 5M a year.
Oh, and R. already brought them a very nice stage race win to go with it.
Click to expand...
I don’t think you understand what 5M gets you in this sport.
 
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Carols

Carols

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Oldermanish said:
They're paying him 6m euros a year and while you catch yourself from hyperventilating you can think of who they can get......they're waiting for your answer too.
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Plus they paid 3M to TJV to buy out his contract.

Pay back so far in 1.5 weeks of racing is 3 stages and 1 GC. I think they're Very Happy with the results so far. Right now there is only 1 other guy that could give them that, Pogi.
 
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Oldermanish

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Carols said:
Plus they paid 3M to TJV to buy out his contract.

Pay back so far in 1.5 weeks of racing is 3 stages and 1 GC. I think they're Very Happy with the results so far. Right now there is only 1 other guy that could give them that, Pogi.
Click to expand...
Well Pogi at 6.3mEU would cost another team, what? To buy and trade him on a long term from UAE?
Point being; Roglic is on track and won a targeted race he was trying to use as training after 2 crashes. Who does that?
Not Remco. Not Jonas. Not Pogi.
It definitely remains to be seen if he's still hurt or can improve on his depth for the Tour. If he outright wins, some of his naysayers offer they will "quit cyclng". Many would be good with that outcome.
Most of us just want a healthy and exciting denouement to let the gasping experts find some final closure.
...and quit obsessing about Remco's weight like fans fighting over who's "prettier"; klohe" or Kim?
 
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bNator

bNator

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Berniece said:
Shadow already gave a list. I’m talking about THIS year. Not older performances
Click to expand...
Yes, we are talking current performances and Ayuso, Rodriguez and Jorgenson (they would never get Vingegaard for much less than 5M). Let’s say these 3 are currently on the similar level as Roglic, even though I’d argue Rogla is still better than all of them. With same results, they generate less publicity than Roglic -> less return. And then there’s a detail that with Roglic Bora got a team builder. He’s experienced, knows how a great team operates and will be able to lift the entire team. You can’t expect that from juniors…

But anyway, claiming that 5M should buy you TdF victory when Pog is paid 6 (soon 8) while Vingegaard is unobtainable (but if he was, it would be much more than 5). It’s not really fair to demand victory. They can demand a fair chance. Which they will get…
 
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Oldermanish

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bNator said:
Yes, we are talking current performances and Ayuso, Rodriguez and Jorgenson (they would never get Vingegaard for much less than 5M). Let’s say these 3 are currently on the similar level as Roglic, even though I’d argue Rogla is still better than all of them. With same results, they generate less publicity than Roglic -> less return. And then there’s a detail that with Roglic Bora got a team builder. He’s experienced, knows how a great team operates and will be able to lift the entire team. You can’t expect that from juniors…

But anyway, claiming that 5M should buy you TdF victory when Pog is paid 6 (soon 8) while Vingegaard is unobtainable (but if he was, it would be much more than 5). It’s not really fair to demand victory. They can demand a fair chance. Which they will get…
Click to expand...
And to add to that: Pogacar hasn't won that 6mEu tour yet. And say they 9whomever that could be) could buy Ayuso, Rodriguez and Jorgenson for a combined 6mEu; would that guarantee a Tour win?
Those points for consideration and the real possibility that all of the riders we're discussing won't even finish the Tour for one reason or another. Not an impossibility this year at all.
 
bNator

bNator

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Oldermanish said:
And to add to that: Pogacar hasn't won that 6mEu tour yet. And say they 9whomever that could be) could buy Ayuso, Rodriguez and Jorgenson for a combined 6mEu; would that guarantee a Tour win?
Those points for consideration and the real possibility that all of the riders we're discussing won't even finish the Tour for one reason or another. Not an impossibility this year at all.
Click to expand...
And I was not even talking about Ayuso, Rodriguez and Jorgenson combined. Carlos Rodriguez alone is 2,5 M.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

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bNator said:
Yes, we are talking current performances and Ayuso, Rodriguez and Jorgenson (they would never get Vingegaard for much less than 5M). Let’s say these 3 are currently on the similar level as Roglic, even though I’d argue Rogla is still better than all of them. With same results, they generate less publicity than Roglic -> less return. And then there’s a detail that with Roglic Bora got a team builder. He’s experienced, knows how a great team operates and will be able to lift the entire team. You can’t expect that from juniors…
Click to expand...
Jorgenson has a better season than Roglic at the moment.
 
Rechtschreibfehler

Rechtschreibfehler

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Berniece said:
Shadow already gave a list. I’m talking about THIS year. Not older performances
Click to expand...

How does it make sense to look only at this year? Especially when it comes to making a decision like taking Roglic in you team?
What is the point? That this year he hasn't been worth 5m € yet? The season is far from over, and his last Race he kinda won and had two stage wins as well. It could have been better at PN and without the crash, but 4 wins in 20 race days I guess is kinda good? (Actually going by race days he's on track for winning as much as last season)

Btw. where do the figures come from how much he earns? Bora say they got Roglic on saved money from earlier seasons, so I have a some doubt if the 5m or 6m numbers are true. Is there a solid source for this (like the team saying so?)
 
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bNator

bNator

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Berniece said:
Jorgenson has a better season than Roglic at the moment.
Click to expand...
If Jorgenson is better than Roglic from now on, then he would probably have been a better investment than Roglic. And noone is claiming that Roglic at 5M was the best possible investment at the time. Most likely not - only one investment per year is the best possible investment and it could very well be that last year it was Jorgenson.

However, claiming that 5M should buy you a TdF victory, is wrong. If it was that simple, anyone could do it.... It's not like when they were making a purchase Roglic was the man to beat in TdF. This year, Roglic's performance is in line with his performance in the previous years, corrected for the effect of changing a team.
 
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