Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Rechtschreibfehler]

The gravel stage (like cobble stages) exists to create gaps in GC before the mountains. That and of course creating buzz and entertainment for tv ratings.

It's not specifically made for crashes per se but definitely drama and potential time losses for GC favorites. It would be extremely naïve to believe otherwise.

Yes it's there to create exitement and because there will be GC action, but it won't just be there because of crashes or mechanicals. Other stages effect GC as well and have crashes and mechanicals. Who said GC action can only happen in the mountains or TTs? A GT is there to find the best rider on multiple terrains, otherwise it could be a one week climbers race with one TT.

I am pretty sure though it's not there to crash the favorites out as @CyclistAbi was saying. It doesn't make sense to diliberatly try to crash favorites out. It's just a fact of road racing that riders crash out on all sorts of stages.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I am pretty sure though it's not there to crash the favorites out as @CyclistAbi was saying. It doesn't make sense to diliberatly try to crash favorites out.

As that would be rather insane, wouldn't it?

 

[acm]

It really sucks that he couldn't show his real level. Pellizzari said that at the training camp he just took off up the climbs.

 

[AmRacer]

And foremost serious reduction, at least when it comes to injuries, that should be done before even thinking about making a race like GT even more freaky. It's like people involved don't even get it, the crash fest they have on their hands, that is without any of the freak stages involved. Some sort of extremists.

Like today's stage?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Today's stage has shown: If Roglic had felt better (and the statement of Nico Denz in his daily interview with Cyclingmagazine indicates that Roglic felt good today and that he was motivated) a lot would have been possible. As much as happened today, at least the podium would have been possible. Theoretically. Too bad. But get well soon!

Yeah, (semi) normal conditions we could hope for much more, that is on why i said it feels Rogla was cheated. But anyway.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

As that would be rather insane, wouldn't it?

Yes what purpose would that serve. Other than the Giro and Tour organizers being sadistic and agents of chaos in secret.

 

[Red Rick]

Crash once, crash twice, you may be unlucky. Crash twenty times and it's time to do some soul searching.

Once again. It's lazy argumentation on a case by case basis.

Because it's a widely accepted view that Roglic can't handle his bike very well, that assumption is never questioned and any crash is instead used to reinforce that view no matter what.

For other riders, luck matters, no matter what, because it's not a complete circlejerk that every crash is their own fault. They are even called unlucky when they completely mess up a corner and take themselves out with injury for a prolonged period of time.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Like today's stage?

At Giro indeed, due to the calendar, you get plenty of that for free, you don't need to help it even more in this regards.

Yes what purpose would that serve. Other than the Giro and Tour organizers being sadistic and agents of chaos in secret.

I mean why would you include SB or PR in a GT race indeed, if not for the hell of it.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

With Jay Vine or Remco I also always assume skill issue, this isn‘t some exclusive concept made up by Roglič haters

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I mean why would you include SB or PR in a GT race indeed, if not for the hell of it.

Why would you include sprint stages, always crashes in the final, like almost literally always. Why would you include mountain stages, often enough someone crashes or even, as today can fall of a cliff? Why would you include hilly stages that go through narrower roads, often crashes happen for positioning before the climbs, and there are descends as well? Why would you include all parts of road racing in GT routes? How would one ever get the idea?

 

[zlev11]

Then why is Roglic the only rider where the narrative is "he just can't ride his bike" when he crashes whereas for others it's omg poor xyz so unlucky.

It is narrative motivated nonsense, and I think it's completely asinine in cases when a rider in in the right place and gets taken out cleanly by a 3rd party.

yeah how about the Australian Ineos guy on the gravel stage who way out of position and completely useless for his team so he had to take a big risk to get back in position and crashed all on his own and took out like 4 GC contenders, where are all the posts about how he cant ride his bike?

 

[AmRacer]

At Giro indeed, due to the calendar, you get plenty of that for free, you don't need to help it even more in this regards.



I mean why would you include SB or PR in a GT race indeed, if not for the hell of it.

Crashes happens in all kind of stages, even in TT's (recon), so racing another type of surface doesn't mean anything crash wise.

 

[Red Rick]

yeah how about the Australian Ineos guy on the gravel stage who way out of position and completely useless for his team so he had to take a big risk to get back in position and crashed all on his own and took out like 4 GC contenders, where are all the posts about how he cant ride his bike?

"When the Opi and Omi lady appeared, she took out the entire peloton. Except for Primoz Roglic, who crashed all by himself"

~ common cycling wisdom

 

[QueenStagiaire]

yeah how about the Australian Ineos guy on the gravel stage who way out of position and completely useless for his team so he had to take a big risk to get back in position and crashed all on his own and took out like 4 GC contenders, where are all the posts about how he cant ride his bike?

They are literally right here, Roglič fans have made 100 trillion posts about Lucas Hamilton and then you guys ask: Why is this never talked about?? Ridiculous

 

[Red Rick]

They are literally right here, Roglič fans have made 100 trillion posts about Lucas Hamilton and then you guys ask: Why is this never talked about?? Ridiculous

There's 3 of us, would you believe?

Don't even pretend that a very small amount of people on a niche forum equates to a sports wide narrative that a majority of fans and pundits repeat time and time agian.

 

[CyclistAbi]

With Jay Vine or Remco I also always assume skill issue, this isn‘t some exclusive concept made up by Roglič haters

I mean it's a meme, from a couple days back:

Page 819 - Teams & Riders - Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

Page 819 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

forum.cyclingnews.com

So either all top riders in cycling are crap, when it comes to skill, or cycling in general does have an issue. An issue nobody really tries to address.

 

[zlev11]

They are literally right here, Roglič fans have made 100 trillion posts about Lucas Hamilton and then you guys ask: Why is this never talked about?? Ridiculous

lol, you're the one being ridiculous. not a single person has said anything about Lucas Hamilton's theoretically poor bike handling.

 

[Extinction]

Once again. It's lazy argumentation on a case by case basis.

Because it's a widely accepted view that Roglic can't handle his bike very well, that assumption is never questioned and any crash is instead used to reinforce that view no matter what.

For other riders, luck matters, no matter what, because it's not a complete circlejerk that every crash is their own fault. They are even called unlucky when they completely mess up a corner and take themselves out with injury for a prolonged period of time.

But other riders don't crash as much as he does. It's all too facile to advocate a case by case basis, when in fact he simply goes down too much. At a certain point chalking it up to bad luck appears as a superstitious cosmic notion of fate (lazy argumentation). I'm not saying he hasn't had bad luck. Clearly he has, however, much luck depends on individual actions. Why is it that he always seems to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, instead of just being in the right place? At a certain point personal responsibility becomes a factor (like crashing in the TT recon).

 

[AmRacer]

I mean it's a meme, from a couple days back:

Page 819 - Teams & Riders - Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

Page 819 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

forum.cyclingnews.com

So either all top riders in cycling are crap, when it comes to skill, or cycling in general does have an issue. An issue nobody really tries to address.

Pogi and Mathieu aren't crap, and others as well.

 

[zlev11]

first Hamilton and then Tarling, i think any anglo rider that Ineos signs should have to pass a bike handling test before they're allowed to ride in a peloton.

 

[Red Rick]

But other riders don't crash as much as he does. It's all too facile to advocate a case by case basis, when in fact he simply goes down too much. At a certain point chalking it up to bad luck appears as a superstitious cosmic notion of fate (lazy argumentation). I'm not saying he hasn't had bad luck. Clearly he has, however, much luck depends on individual actions. Why is it that he always seems to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, instead of just being in the right place? At a certain point personal responsibility becomes a factor (like crashing in the TT recon).

And I don't deny at all that personal responsibility is a factor or that the TT recon crash was his own fault.

But people will call out positioning, cite Del Toro as the new prime example of how to do it, when he's like 10 places behind Roglic when the gravel crash happens, or Del Toro gets credited for avoiding trouble in the Nova Gorica crash where he also crashes just like everyone else. And then today, he's reportedly taken down by a direct competitor, who by the way ends up completely unharmed and being strongest of the GC favorites while Rog can't continue.

So "why isn't he just in the right place" doesn't hold much water for me, when it there's large crashes with many riders.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Why would you include sprint stages, always crashes in the final, like almost literally always. Why would you include mountain stages, often enough someone crashes or even, as today can fall of a cliff? Why would you include hilly stages that go through narrower roads, often crashes happen for positioning before the climbs, and there are descends as well? Why would you include all parts of road racing in GT routes? How would one ever get the idea?

This is just an attempt at relativization. Basically similar to saying it doesn't really matter if 100 riders crash or 1 crash, as there will always be crashes. This in the end is just such a meme, an excuse if you will, for being lazy and for not taking any responsibility for it. And indeed as a result then we get the whole GC bunch crashing at mini SB at Giro. Lack of any sort of basic decency, when it comes to improving riders safety. Commentators on ES apologising all the time, this is just what cycling is, all about injuring athletes. Day after day after day. Do you really feel that doing it like that, this sport has any meaningful future, outside die hard fans? Until this improves cycling won't be a mainstream sport, the overall public image, on when it comes to safety, is just too bad.

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

As much as I'd love to believe that he would have been with Pellizzari today, it wouldn't have made sense for him to abandon so promptly after a minor* crash if he were feeling so good. Not saying that this crash was an excuse, it might have been minor on its own but still exacerbated existing physical issues (and psychologically it probably was the straw that broke the camel's back).

*Assuming it was indeed minor, I'm going off of how other people described it.

 

[Red Rick]

As much as I'd love to believe that he would have been with Pellizzari today, it wouldn't have made sense for him to abandon so promptly after a minor* crash if he were feeling so good. Not saying that this crash was an excuse, it might have been minor on its own but still exacerbated existing physical issues (and psychologically it probably was the straw that broke the camel's back).

*Assuming it was indeed minor, I'm going off of how other people described it.

It's just the inner sprinter that wants to go home as soon as he sees a mountain in Italy

 

[CyclistAbi]

Well, if nothing else, Rogla still seems to have it, on what it takes. Till that will be the case i am sure that sixth and beyond ... is well in reach. At one point UAE and del Toro looked like being a gear ahead, although ITTs painting a slightly different picture, anyway, realistically and on Rogla terrain they would struggle, especially if Rogla healthy.

As for the Giro 25, may the best one win and for Rogla indeed it seems that the Tour it is now becoming the main focus. See you at the Tour 25, Rogla riding as a lead for Red Bull – BORA – hansgrohe, first Tour after 2020, that Rogla plans to start and finish. We all know what usually happens, when Rogla finishes a GT.