Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Rackham]

I'm the last fan standing with the Rog banner flying here.

Where's CyclistAbi? I need backup.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Of course the team has the most egg on their face if they let Roglic start the Tour in this condition. He probably did everything he could but was dealt a bad hand not only with the crashes but also with having to ride the Giro where he also wasn't as good as expected from the start probably because they also had the tour in mind.

As I already said I think he will be out of the team end of 26 even sooner if they can sign a good GC rider this winter.

A lot of copium going on in this thread. His level just isn't theres one could just accept that even as a fan. Can he get 5th 4th 6th in Paris? Right now I would say no, his shown level up until now and the interviews suggest to me that he himself already given up on a really good result.

 

[Rackham]

A lot of copium going on in this thread. His level just isn't theres one could just accept that even as a fan. Can he get 5th 4th 6th in Paris? Right now I would say no, his shown level up until now and the interviews suggest to me that he himself already given up on a really good result.

There really isn't. It's just me.

I also know this rider. There's a scenario here where he's just undercooked, not great at punchiness anymore and has targeted training for longer climbs since before the Giro.

Until I see the outcome of that, I won't jump to conclusions.

 

[acm]

"If I would be flying I'd be with one leg there"

That's true tbh.

 

[Red Rick]

Of course the team has the most egg on their face if they let Roglic start the Tour in this condition. He probably did everything he could but was dealt a bad hand not only with the crashes but also with having to ride the Giro where he also wasn't as good as expected from the start probably because they also had the tour in mind.

As I already said I think he will be out of the team end of 26 even sooner if they can sign a good GC rider this winter.

A lot of copium going on in this thread. His level just isn't theres one could just accept that even as a fan. Can he get 5th 4th 6th in Paris? Right now I would say no, his shown level up until now and the interviews suggest to me that he himself already given up on a really good result.

Clearly the hope is he improves during the race.

Roglic seems much more candid than usual, he's not in good form, but he just wants to give it all and get the best result in Paris, whatever that may be.

With the way he's talking he may be actually think about retiring at the end of this year. Like he admits there's one thing missing from his palmares, and he's not gonna get that, and he's talking about his legacy quite openly before the Tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and I'd be disappointed if he retired at the end of this season, but I wouldn't be that surprised either.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

Despite today's performance, I still think he'll be better than most of the riders currently ahead of him in the GC in the time trial and the mountains, a bit like Simon Yates or Derek Gee in the Giro, but who knows, maybe it's just copium.

The only good thing is that now the German fans can't be upset that he's holding Lipo back because he was even worse than him today. Despite that, I'm also confident he'll improve in the time trial and the mountains; it's not the first time he's had a tough time at the start of a Grand Tour (last year Giro and Vuelta).
If they don't improve, Bora will be an absolute disaster in terms of preparation and performance.

 

[SHAD0W93]

If Roglic isn’t dropped on stage 10 I think he’ll have some gas left for good mountain performances.

 

[Rackham]

According to Denk on the podcast, Rog was involved in the Van Dijke crash before the finale and had a small mechanical issue because of it. His derailleur was bent & he couldn't shift to the small chainring, so he had to ride the steep section on the final climb on the big chainring.

 

[Red Rick]

According to Denk on the podcast, Rog was involved in the Van Dijke crash before the finale and had a small mechanical issue because of it. His derailleur was bent & he couldn't shift to the small chainring, so he had to ride the steep section on the final climb on the big chainring.

That's it boys fresh copium is in it's all back in the bag

 

[Rackham]

That's it boys fresh copium is in it's all back in the bag

German copium, aka predictably efficient and mechanically on point as well.

Now Denk did say his riders need to lay their cards on the table tomorrow in the ITT, so yeah, no copium tomorrow if he's bad.

 

[Filippo_3467]

That's it boys fresh copium is in it's all back in the bag

That's the classic Denk move. Having a lot of ecxuses first and then throw his own riders under the bus. Happened to a lot of guys in the last years.

 

[Rackham]

That's the classic Denk move. Having a lot of ecxuses first and then throw his own riders under the bus. Happened to a lot of guys in the last years.

He said there was a discussion on the radio about swapping bikes but they chose not to because they didn't want to lose contact with the bunch.

Now if someone says it's copium and he's got all sorts of excuses for his riders, not quite. He said the team only had Vlasov as a helper in the final 30k and it wasn't enough.

As for who I'll choose to 'believe' on the issue of the broken derailleur, I mean take you pick: Denk versus the internet doomers who said Rog was washed anyway long before today. Oh boy, tough choice!

 

[Carols]

Well this is the best interview he's given that I've seen this tour. He wants to get to Paris regardless of where he finishes. Says he's suffering every day . Wherever he finishes, if he's smiling and saying he gave everything he had, I'll be happy for him. Obviously he has no legs but is still out there doing the best he can. Love and good fortune to Primoz. He's a class act with a palmares 98% of pros would be proud of.

 

[Carols]

I'm the last fan standing with the Rog banner flying here.

Where's CyclistAbi? I need backup.

You're not alone. I support him wherever he finishes.

 

[Filippo_3467]

He said there was a discussion on the radio about swapping bikes but they chose not to because they didn't want to lose contact with the bunch.

Now if someone says it's copium and he's got all sorts of excuses for his riders, not quite. He said the team only had Vlasov as a helper in the final 30k and it wasn't enough.

As for who I'll choose to 'believe' on the issue of the broken derailleur, I mean take you pick: Denk versus the internet doomers who said Rog was washed anyway long before today. Oh boy, tough choice!

yeah I'm not a doomer. I was picking Roglic for Giro win /Tour podium a few weeks ago. But I'm also have to see reality and I was a Bora fan for 10 years or so since they brought Dominik Nerz to the Tour so I'm pretty familiar with how they handle underperforming riders.

What are the expectations for tomorrow? On the one hand I think TT could be a good discipline for Primoz. Especially because it is a flat one. But one the other hand does he have the willpower to go deep. I would guess he comes 6th to 8th beaten maybe by Remco, Pogi, Vingegaard, Jorgensen, Almeida, Affini,... not a lot fresh TT experts left in the race that could make a top 10. More important fopr our discussion is the time gap: I would guess Remco winner, Pogacar losses 30-40 seconds, Vingegaard another 10 to 15...so Roglic could be around 1:20. Should be enough to be 7th or 8th in the new GC standings. If it's way worse time loss wise something is really wrong. I mean I still think he can make the Top 10 in Paris pretty easily if he stays upright but if we see a two minute loss I wouldn't be so sure about that either. If the watts aren't there there is not much you can do in cycling.

 

[Oldman]

If Roglic isn’t dropped on stage 10 I think he’ll have some gas left for good mountain performances.

Actually tomorrow's TT is a good litmus test. Today's coverage had Phil Liggett blathering that they hadn't seen Primoz; spoke while he was sitting right behind MvP. How he got there might be a clue why he dropped off the pace before the top. Saving himself wouldn't be an acceptable excuse but getting tied up with other riders on a switchback, a dropped chain or some mechanical problem would be. Don't know without eyes on the situation. NBC's coverage has been abysmal from the viewing standpoint. Except for Phil's stray missives the rest of the broadcast crew have been pretty good.

 

[Rackham]

yeah I'm not a doomer. I was picking Roglic for Giro win /Tour podium a few weeks ago. But I'm also have to see reality and I was a Bora fan for 10 years or so since they brought Dominik Nerz to the Tour so I'm pretty familiar with how they handle underperforming riders.

What are the expectations for tomorrow? On the one hand I think TT could be a good discipline for Primoz. Especially because it is a flat one. But one the other hand does he have the willpower to go deep. I would guess he comes 6th to 8th beaten maybe by Remco, Pogi, Vingegaard, Jorgensen, Almeida, Affini,... not a lot fresh TT experts left in the race that could make a top 10. More important fopr our discussion is the time gap: I would guess Remco winner, Pogacar losses 30-40 seconds, Vingegaard another 10 to 15...so Roglic could be around 1:20. Should be enough to be 7th or 8th in the new GC standings. If it's way worse time loss wise something is really wrong. I mean I still think he can make the Top 10 in Paris pretty easily if he stays upright but if we see a two minute loss I wouldn't be so sure about that either. If the watts aren't there there is not much you can do in cycling.

Tomorrow? I usually start by looking at where the others finished in prior ITT's and where Rog is relative to them on this sort of parcours. I see Evenepoel is apparently looking to take yellow tomorrow (according to Eurosport France), which means he fancies putting a minute into Pog.

So where does Rog finish on a non-technical 33km flat ITT? I'd start looking at Almeida tbh. He's a good test. Anywhere there or thereabouts Almeida's time would be within the realm of expected IMO.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Well this is the best interview he's given that I've seen this tour. He wants to get to Paris regardless of where he finishes. Says he's suffering every day . Wherever he finishes, if he's smiling and saying he gave everything he had, I'll be happy for him. Obviously he has no legs but is still out there doing the best he can. Love and good fortune to Primoz. He's a class act with a palmares 98% of pros would be proud of.

Yup, people shouldn't feel sorry for him. We must feel sorry for those who born in the same era of Pogacar. They will not have half the palmares of Roglic.

 

[Red Rick]

Yup, people shouldn't feel sorry for him. We must feel sorry for those who born in the same era of Pogacar. They will not have half the palmares of Roglic.

Won his first GT against Pogacar, and his first GT top 10 was a year before Pogacar.

It's very hard to make the argument they didn't have some serious overlap.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Won his first GT against Pogacar, and his first GT top 10 was a year before Pogacar.

It's very hard to make the argument they didn't have some serious overlap.

He was 4th in the Tour 2018. Pogacar was a kid in 2019, not even close to this mutant level.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I'm the last fan standing with the Rog banner flying here.

Where's CyclistAbi? I need backup.

Relax.

In the end it's fourth stage of the Tour. Unfortunately some time shifted today and some team members hitting the deck again. Team mostly unable to be there at the end, mitigation purposes, realistically this is not Lipo terrain in the first place and a small mechanical causing some issues for Rogla on the toughest terrain. Fine, we'll take it.

Lets do a solid ITT tomorrow and build on that.

P.S. Rogla rode the toughest part, due to the mechanical, with big chainring at the front, we so got this.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Today it would likely help to have Dani around. Swapping bikes, lead-out or mitigation. But OK.

 

[Lorzenz08]

He was 4th in the Tour 2018. Pogacar was a kid in 2019, not even close to this mutant level.

True but the majority of his best results were 2020-2024

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

For what it's worth and maybe of interest to the Roglic fans in here, Lipowitz seemed surprisingly positive on German television after the stage.
Said that Roglic rode well and that they can be happy with todays result, most importantly no crashes. Team is in a good mode.
As for himself, he amitted that these stages don't suit him and he had to close too many gaps due to positioning but didn't seem to bothered about the time loss.

So maybe they do have a more relaxed view on the situation and simply prioritise getting to Hautacam in the first place.

 

[Oldman]

According to Denk on the podcast, Rog was involved in the Van Dijke crash before the finale and had a small mechanical issue because of it. His derailleur was bent & he couldn't shift to the small chainring, so he had to ride the steep section on the final climb on the big chainring.

Seriously! I wondered as that hill would suit him and he was right there when Pog attacked. Going up that monster in the big ring had to be painful and explains alot. Would've loved to have seen some coverage but, as I've complained; the video feed sucks and we only get fleeting shots of the front on these suicidal obstacle courses French town roads have become.