Evidence: Links Only!

[Brullnux]

Re:

I'm lurking through various forums, and was wondering if we still need this as a sticky? Three posts in the last three two years. Thoughts anyone?

Idk, seems that people are speculating rather than having real evidence
But yeah, very few posts

 

[QuizzicalSwin]

Good luck ~~~~~~~

 

[neineinei]

Re: Re:

I'm lurking through various forums, and was wondering if we still need this as a sticky? Three posts in the last three two years. Thoughts anyone?

Idk, seems that people are speculating rather than having real evidence
But yeah, very few posts

The thread was for links in the USADA-LA case (see OP), so there is no lack of real evidence. However, the thread very soon was taken over by a troll, which didn't help. I think it can be unstickied.

 

[Dr.Guess]

I don't know if these files have surfaced around here, they probably have. It's the Conconi- files.
I got them from a guy who, like me, tries to investigate the swedish cross country skiing team in the late 80s. (PM me if you've got some info about that).

I hope it's not breaching any code of conduct or something by posting this. Feel free to delete it then, mods.

 

[Ripper]

I don't know if these files have surfaced around here, they probably have. It's the Conconi- files.
I got them from a guy who, like me, tries to investigate the swedish cross country skiing team in the late 80s. (PM me if you've got some info about that).

I hope it's not breaching any code of conduct or something by posting this. Feel free to delete it then, mods.

Er ... what are the numbers we are seeing here?

 

[Dr.Guess]

First row of columns are Hemoglobin. First is before doping value and the forth is after doping. The second is perhaps original value?
Then the second set of columns are HTC value. It follows the same patterns.
I didn't get the numbers from a scientist and the full effort of disclosing what the values mean.
Hope it helps.

 

[D-Queued]

Re:

I'm lurking through various forums, and was wondering if we still need this as a sticky? Three posts in the last three two years. Thoughts anyone?

I just realized that the actual USPS contract may not be linked here.

Here is a link: http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/US+Postal+Service+Sponsorship+Agreement+2001-01-01.pdf

Thus, for that piece of evidence alone, this thread may still warrant a sticky.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

WADA Prohibited Association List 31 August 2015:

http://wada-mailing-list.s3.amazonaws.com/WADA_Prohibited_Association_List_EN_31Aug2015.pdf

download and save it before it disapeares again

PS If mods want to move it to another thread, be my guest.

List contains Leinders, Ferrari, Del Moral all life bans.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

WADA Prohibited Association List 31 August 2015:

http://wada-mailing-list.s3.amazonaws.com/WADA_Prohibited_Association_List_EN_31Aug2015.pdf

download and save it before it disapeares again

PS If mods want to move it to another thread, be my guest.

List contains Leinders, Ferrari, Del Moral all life bans.

A lot of Italians on there

 

[thehog]

Re:

WADA Prohibited Association List 31 August 2015:

http://wada-mailing-list.s3.amazonaws.com/WADA_Prohibited_Association_List_EN_31Aug2015.pdf

download and save it before it disapeares again

PS If mods want to move it to another thread, be my guest.

List contains Leinders, Ferrari, Del Moral all life bans.

It's still there.

 

[sniper]

For future reference:

As it was, financier Franklin "Pitch" Johnson, investment banker Bill Bowes and Abbott Labs' executive George Rathmann had just formed Amgen and needed a "hot" product. When Goldwasser offered to share his cache of the world's only supply of purified EPO, Amgen jumped. U.S. taxpayers may have spent decades and a king's ransom helping Goldwasser unlock the secrets of this protein. But Amgen grabbed the rights to it for a song.

The company spent years trying to clone the gene. In late 1983, Amgen raised $40 million in an initial public offering underwritten by Smith Barney, Dean Witter and Montgomery Securities, founded by amateur cyclist Thom Weisel, who also financed the U.S. Postal Service Pro Cycling Team led by Armstrong.

By the mid-1980s, Amgen filed for the key patent on producing recombinant EPO. But to monetize its product, it needed regulatory approval. So, it cut a deal with health-care giant Johnson & Johnson. If Johnson & Johnson would help secure approval from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Johnson & Johnson could sell EPO for all medical markets except renal failure. Amgen thought it had the better part of the deal, but Johnson & Johnson would soon demonstrate otherwise.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/armstrongs-fraud-paralleled-epo-makers-feud/

In 1988 Amgen launched its epoetin alfa product, sold under license by J&J and its subsidiaries under a variety of commercial names (Eprex, Erypo, Epopen, Epoxitin, Globuren, Espo...) whose therapeutic indication was the treatment of anemia.
...
In 1988 the non-US markets also saw the launch of another EPO product, called Recormon (epoetin beta), whose indication was the treatment of anemia in patients with chronic renal failure

http://www.med.uio.no/helsam/forskning/nettverk/hero/publikasjoner/skriftserie/2006/HERO2006_3.pdf

 

[sniper]

Perhaps the discovery and isolation of erythropoetin will make blood doping irrelevant. Erythropoietin is a direct stimulus to further red cell production and is a potentially cleaner method of achieving the same effects. Erythropoietin is not currently a banned substance and the potential for it being used to confer an unfair disadvantage is considerable.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1478635/pdf/brjsmed00034-0022.pdf

 

[sniper]

Vanmol interview 1988 (my translation):

After every stage, Vanmol subjects his riders to thorough examinations. "Pulse and bloodpressure are being measured before dinner. Then we apply the necessary preparates. Yes, that also involves injections and infusions. During this Tour I had the blood of my riders examined twice. And what appeared? At least two of our riders were suffering from an iron deficiency."
http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?identifier=ddd%3A010611731%3Ampeg21%3Aa0264&coll=ddd

1989:

But his masseur, Otto Jacome, diagnosed LeMond's ashen pallor as a symptom of iron deficiency. After a few injections, he started to make a remarkable recovery.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1990/06/29/lemonds-self-made-miracle/eb9b3fe2-ee74-4b6d-9d65-b26484c27c14/

 

[sniper]

More on the history of EPO:

From the Amgen website:

By 1986 it showed a humble profit, but 96 percent of its revenues that year came not from products, but from interest income and research partnerships with major drug companies. At this time, Amgen had five genetically engineered drugs undergoing human testing, the most promising of which was erythropoietin, or EPO, a synthetically produced hormone that promotes red blood cell production. The drug was targeted for people with kidney disease on dialysis, a process that lowers the kidneys' natural production of EPO. The product proved to be a marvel of genetic engineering: In January 1987, an article in the New England Journal of Medicine detailed the positive results of a study involving EPO and 25 kidney-dialysis patients.

Because the worldwide market for patients with kidney failure was about $350 million a year in the mid-1980s, and because there were then fewer than 200,000 kidney-dialysis patients in the United States, Amgen's EPO was accorded "orphan drug" status by the FDA, an exclusive seven-year marketing rights privilege. However, many argued that EPO was not just a drug for those suffering kidney failure; its applications for anemia, a common side effect of certain treatments for cancer, arthritis, and AIDS, were unlimited. The drug could also be used to reduce the need for blood transfusions during surgery.

With those uses in mind, in 1985 Amgen sold Johnson & Johnson the right to market EPO for treatment of anemia in the United States and for all uses in Europe. The previous year, Amgen had formed a joint venture with Kirin Brewery Company, Ltd. of Japan, according Kirin the right to manufacture and market EPO in Japan. Amgen, with rights to the U.S. dialysis market, began building an EPO manufacturing facility near its headquarters even before the company was granted its first patent for its recombinant human erythropoietin, named Epogen. Two days after receiving the patent in October 1987, Amgen filed with the FDA.

...

While Amgen was awaiting the FDA's green light, Johnson & Johnson's Ortho Pharmaceutical Corporation slapped Amgen with a lawsuit over what Ortho claimed would be "spillover sales" resulting from non-dialysis use of Epogen.

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/amgen-inc-history/

Les Earnest on EPO advent in the US:

In late 1988 when it became evident that Amgen would soon release EPO as a prescription drug and I was about to begin my second decade as a director of the United States Cycling Federation (USCF), I wrote a letter to USCF Executive Director Jerry Lace pointing out that this hormone would likely come into use among cyclists. I advocated that a study be undertaken to determine if this could be done safely, with the idea that it might supplant the messier blood boosting procedures that were then in use. Mr. Lace subsequently confirmed that he had passed this advice along to U.S. Olympic Committee medical control authorities and that a study was underway. Based on that, I naively wrote the following article.
http://web.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/richer.htm

Danish cyclists get offered EPO in 1989:

a Danish physician, Søren Kragbak, claimed that in 1989 a Swedish medical company had contacted the Danish cycling fed requesting to be allowed carry out secret EPO tests with Danish cyclists. The Danes turned down the request.
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/2/16/1997823/tough-on-doping-tough-on-the-causes-of-doping-francesco-conconi-and

Alleged black market availability in 1988:

"EPO was certified as medicine in 1989, but the French newspaper Le Monde reported already at jan.1988, that it was obtainable at the black market as a product in test phase. "
http://www.slideshare.net/RedFlanders/doping-history

From 1990:
- EPO alleged to be 'widespread' already in 1990.
- PDM doc Pluijmers says he knows three cyclists using it.
- 1989 experiments on Swedish athletes show performance enhancing effect of EPO

At the forefront are rumors that cyclists are using a genetically engineered kidney-disease drug to enhance performances. Some physicians are concerned that the drug, which the body also produces naturally as a hormone, is somehow linked to the deaths, but research does not indicate that.

The drug, erythropoietin (EPO), can be used as a simple alternative to what is known as blood doping. EPO stimulates red-blood cells to increase their output of oxygen-carrying hemoglobin.

...

Rob J. Pluijmers, a sportsmedicine doctor involved with Dutch cyclists for 15 years, admitted last week in Salt Lake City that he knows three professionals taking EPO, a recombinant hormone used to treat anemia. He refused to name the athletes, but this is the first official acknowledgement that athletes are using the drug.

Pluijmers, however, denied that any of the 15 deaths could be attributed to erythropoietin.

"There is no reason to think EPO use is involved," said Pluijmers who was visiting the United States to speak to colleagues at the American College of Sports Medicine.

Pluijmers said the cyclists he knows using the drug are from the Netherlands and Belgium. He said the three got the drug from sources in Belgium. One athlete, he said, was taking the drug to treat a medical problem, but the others were using it to enhance performance.

EPO is not yet registered in the Netherlands, although it is widely approved throughout Europe. The Food and Drug Administration approved its use in the United States last June. Amgen, a Thousand Oaks firm, developed the drug here.

Three years ago, physicians and pharmacologists stated their concerns about the abuse of erythropoietin among athletes such as cyclists and distance runners who would benefit from blood doping.

In October of 1989, Dr. Bjorn Ekblom of Stockholm's Institute of Gymnastics and Sport, reported that eight Swedish athletes increased their endurance by 10% after using erythropoietin during a study.

Ekblom, credited with discovering blood doping in 1972, said at the time: "This makes it hard to believe in sports' future."

Ekblom's skepticism is shared by many in the medical community who suspect widespread EPO abuse, although it may be years before they can prove it.

...

Although doctors have no evidence of EPO use by U.S. athletes, the USOC's Puffer believes it is a problem.

"It is impossible to know, but I think it is one of our major concerns besides steroids," he said.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-06-02/sports/sp-143_1_performance-enhancing-drug

 

[sniper]

Thought I had put this up earlier, but can't find it, so putting it up again.
Lemond accused of using EPO:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Thought I had put this up earlier, but can't find it, so putting it up again.
Lemond accused of using EPO:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

Is there any translation anywhere?

 

[L'arriviste]

Re: Re:

Thought I had put this up earlier, but can't find it, so putting it up again.
Lemond accused of using EPO:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

Is there any translation anywhere?

This article is taken from the 05 June 1990 edition of Dutch newspaper Het Vrije Volk. I have no comment to offer on Lemond's clean credentials but this is the cheapest kind of journalism and does not deserve a place in this thread.

The article describes the contemporary recent history of the wonderdrug EPO but, despite the provocative headline and a big photo of the American on a motorbike, Lemond actually appears only once in the text:

The sudden comeback of the professional cyclist Greg LeMond who, after a lost season last year surprised by winning the Tour de France and the world road title, is also linked to the new product which is very expensive. According to a Dutch amateur cyclist, "LeMond is one of the few who can afford it." Moreover it can only be obtained in the United States.

Which was, of course, complete nonsense. As was approaching the doctor Jan Paul van Mantgem for his professional opinion on the product. Of course van Mantgem, who warns us of the risks of thick blood in the article, will be known to Clinic readers as one half of the doctor duo at Rasmussen-era Rabobank, alongside Geert Leinders.

 

[sniper]

"Appears only once"
I would swear that's twice right there.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Thought I had put this up earlier, but can't find it, so putting it up again.
Lemond accused of using EPO:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

Is there any translation anywhere?

Will someone please translate the entire article?

TIA

 

[sniper]

When reading an article, i was taught to start with the headline. It reads "Lemond uses very expensive doping".
There is not much to argue about here. It's evidence pure and simple.
What weight and importance one gives to this piece of evidence is a completely different matter, a matter the discussion of which this thread was not designed for I think.

@irondan, i will give that a go next week if nobody beats me to it (which seems likely).

 

[kingjr]

This is a first draft of a translation of the article. Some parts are a a bit ugly, but i think it should do the job for now.


LeMond is using very expensive doping products.

By Rob van den Dobbelsteen

HAARLEM – Those who fight against doping are powerless in the face of a new product that has been introduced 2 years ago. It appears that it was first used by American athletes, but now it has found is way into international cycling as well.
The product, called Erythropoietin, has the same effects as blood doping and can not be detected in urine samples. Originally, the product was, among others, developed for kidney patients who are undergoing dialysis treatment and suffer from anemia (low HB levels). Erythropoietin, which usually is injected subcutaneously but now can also be taken in form of a pill, adds proteins to the blood. In hospitals in NL the product is only used sporadically. They're calling it a trial phase.
Erythropoietin became known after an article was published in 1988 in an English medical journal.
Even back then, there were rumours among insiders that it had already been used by American athletes at the Olympics in Seoul.
The sudden 'resurrection' of professional cyclist Greg LeMond, who last year, after a horrible spring season, surprisingly won both the Tour de France and the World Championship, is now being attributed to this new, very expensive product.
'LeMond is one of the few who can afford it', says a Dutch amateur cyclist. 'Moreover, you can only get the product in America.'
The blood of athletes who have used EPO has much higher HB levels and therefore more oxygen. Thus, the heart doesn't have to work as hard during a competition to let the same amount of oxygen circulate through the body.
An English athlete who had used the product, recently said on a British TV programme that he had been able to improve his PB over 10,000m by 2 and a half minutes in one fell swoop.
EPO has the same effect as blood doping, which had been introduced in the 70s by the Finnish athlete Lasse Viren, among others. Viren, who won both the 5,000m and the 10,000m in Munich 1972 and repeated this performance 4 years later in Montreal never admitted to his blood doping, but other Finnish athletes (Cross-country skiers, for instance) have admitted that this method was quite common in Finland.
When using the blood doping method, an athlete first has a certain amount of blood withdrawn. After training at altitude (2,000m above sea level) and then reinjecting the blood, it contains so much oxygen that his performances will improve considerably. Blood doping is officially prohibited, but since it doesn't leave behind traces in the urine, it can not be detected.
The same applies to EPO. Using EPO leads to an increase in red blood cells. Normally, the product is not dangerous, but that changes when performances need to be delivered at high temperatures, for instance.
Cardiologist Jan Paul van Mantgem, who is well known among cyclist says: ' Using EPO makes the blood become thick. If you now start sweating profusely it will become even thicker and there is a chance of a thrombosis or an emboly, which can easily have fatal consequences.'
However, Van Mantgem excludes the possibility that the numerous sudden cardiac deaths among dutch cyclists have anything to do with the new product. 'Impossible. Their symptoms don't lead to this conclusion.'

 

[Irondan]

This is a first draft of a translation of the article. Some parts are a a bit ugly, but i think it should do the job for now.


LeMond is using very expensive doping products.

By Rob van den Dobbelsteen

HAARLEM – Those who fight against doping are powerless in the face of a new product that has been introduced 2 years ago. It appears that it was first used by American athletes, but now it has found is way into international cycling as well.
The product, called Erythropoietin, has the same effects as blood doping and can not be detected in urine samples. Originally, the product was, among others, developed for kidney patients who are undergoing dialysis treatment and suffer from anemia (low HB levels). Erythropoietin, which usually is injected subcutaneously but now can also be taken in form of a pill, adds proteins to the blood. In hospitals in NL the product is only used sporadically. They're calling it a trial phase.
Erythropoietin became known after an article was published in 1988 in an English medical journal.
Even back then, there were rumours among insiders that it had already been used by American athletes at the Olympics in Seoul.
The sudden 'resurrection' of professional cyclist Greg LeMond, who last year, after a horrible spring season, surprisingly won both the Tour de France and the World Championship, is now being attributed to this new, very expensive product.
'LeMond is one of the few who can afford it', says a Dutch amateur cyclist. 'Moreover, you can only get the product in America.'
The blood of athletes who have used EPO has much higher HB levels and therefore more oxygen. Thus, the heart doesn't have to work as hard during a competition to let the same amount of oxygen circulate through the body.
An English athlete who had used the product, recently said on a British TV programme that he had been able to improve his PB over 10,000m by 2 and a half minutes in one fell swoop.
EPO has the same effect as blood doping, which had been introduced in the 70s by the Finnish athlete Lasse Viren, among others. Viren, who won both the 5,000m and the 10,000m in Munich 1972 and repeated this performance 4 years later in Montreal never admitted to his blood doping, but other Finnish athletes (Cross-country skiers, for instance) have admitted that this method was quite common in Finland.
When using the blood doping method, an athlete first has a certain amount of blood withdrawn. After training at altitude (2,000m above sea level) and then reinjecting the blood, it contains so much oxygen that his performances will improve considerably. Blood doping is officially prohibited, but since it doesn't leave behind traces in the urine, it can not be detected.
The same applies to EPO. Using EPO leads to an increase in red blood cells. Normally, the product is not dangerous, but that changes when performances need to be delivered at high temperatures, for instance.
Cardiologist Jan Paul van Mantgem, who is well known among cyclist says: ' Using EPO makes the blood become thick. If you now start sweating profusely it will become even thicker and there is a chance of a thrombosis or an emboly, which can easily have fatal consequences.'
However, Van Mantgem excludes the possibility that the numerous sudden cardiac deaths among dutch cyclists have anything to do with the new product. 'Impossible. Their symptoms don't lead to this conclusion.'

Thank you for translating that, much appreciated.

After reading this I'm not so sure it belongs in the "Evidence" thread. Presenting an article that states Lemond must be using EPO because it can only be purchased in America and he's an American, so he must be using it is pretty thin, even thinner is the claim that he was "one of the few that could afford it" therefore he was using it.

I'm not saying that Lemond didn't dope as just being a pro cyclist alone makes one a suspect doper, what I'm saying is that I don't think this article is any evidence that he doped, it's more of an op-ed.

 

[sniper]

What definition of evidence are you/we using here?
Honest question.

 

[sniper]

If there is a rumour that Wiggins used Aicar to loose weight, then certainly an article giving voice to that rumour would be a piece of evidence, however small, that he did indeed use Aicar to loose weight.

Are you not confusing evidence with proof here?

 

[sniper]

It is also being ignored here (and kingjr s translation doesn't capture this) that the title is in fact a quote. So it's " "Lemond uses very expensive doping" "

At the very least it is evidence that the rumor existed that Lemond was among the very first epo users, which i think is salient enough to warrant placement in this thread.