fantasy doping draft

[ciranda]

TDF 2005 Valverde could be an option too I guess but he was my choice for sure. With regards to results he passed Jalabert around 2006 or something. Well, I can't think of anyone really obvious to pick now.

After some deliberation I find the correct choice here to be

In peak condition Rodriguez is better than Valverde on steep finishes anyway and my team is mostly about stage victories. I had other options: Spanish riders from earlier times, different Italians, a cyclist from the country with the second smallest population (I think) to ever podium the TDF and another from the country with the smallest population for sure. But Rodriguez has won so much more and been in the elite for longer than any of those so Vuelta a España 2012 Rodriguez is my choice.

 

[hrotha]

2012 Vuelta for me.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

So is Libertine still around?

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

With the end of round 4 time for a list of teams so far

Libertine Serguros
1: Miguel Indurain ('95 Tour)
20: Laurent Jalabert ('95 Vuelta)
30: Joseba Beloki ('01 Tour)
31: José María Jiménez ('98 Vuelta)

The Hitch
2: Lance Armstrong ('04 Tour)
19: Michael Rasmussen ('07 Tour)
29: Nairo Quintana ('13 Tour)
32: Vincenzo Nibali ('14 Tour)

The Sceptic
3: Jan Ullrich ('97 Tour)
18: Santi Pérez ('04 Vuelta)
28: Chris Horner ('13 Vuelta)
33: Aitor Gonzalez ('02 Vuelta)

The Green Monkey
4: Alberto Contador ('09 Tour)
17: Alex Zülle ('95 Tour)
27: Ivan Gotti ('97 Giro)
34: Emanuele Sella ('08 Giro)

zlev11
5: Marco Pantani ('99 Giro)
16: Floyd Landis ('06 Tour)
26: Riccardo Ricco ('08 Tour)
35: Iban Mayo ('03 Tour)

burning
6: Bjarne Riis ('96 Tour)
15: Richard Virenque ('97 Tour)
25: Gilberto Simoni ('03 Giro)
36: Bradley Wiggins ('12 Tour)

Netserk
7: Ivan Basso ('06 Giro)
14: Piotr Ugrumov ('94 Tour)
24: Pavel Tonkov ('98 Giro)
37: Andreas Klöden ('06 Tour)

Zam Olyas
8: Gianni Bugno ('90 Giro)
13: Tony Rominger ('95 Giro)
23: Denis Menchov ('09 Giro)
38: Claudio Chiappucci ('92 Tour)

Tonton
9: Evgeni Berzin ('94 Giro)
12: Chris Froome ('13 Tour)
22: Alexander Vinokourov ('03 Tour)
39: Alejandro Valverde ('09 Vuelta)

Ciranda
10: Roberto Heras ('04 Vuelta)
11: Tyler Hamilton ('03 Tour)
21: Frank Vandenbroucke ('99 Vuelta)
40: Joachim Rodriguez ('12 Vuelta)


Round 5
Pick 41: Libertine Seguros -
Pick 42: The Hitch -
Pick 43: The Sceptic -
Pick 44: The Green Monkey -
Pick 45: zlev11 -
Pick 46: burning -
Pick 47: Netserk -
Pick 48: Zam Olyas -
Pick 49: Tonton -
Pick 50: ciranda -

 

[vedrafjord]

Re: Re:

Yeah, I guess Landis was one of the worst climbers in that entire graph.

Oh, so this done based on a single stage performance in a given GT?

Be prepared for him to be a bit off on a couple of stages then.

Landis was very up and down in that Tour, that's for sure. That graph I did only used averages, which can hide a lot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anscombe's_quartet is a good example). I have an idea for a better graph that will split out the individual climbs and take length into account too.

 

[the sceptic]

Libertine picks: Fernando Escartin (99' tour)

(write up to come when libertine is back)

 

[The Hitch]

With the 42nd pick of the 2015 draft the Hitch picks Ilnur Zakarin of Katusha.

Just joking. Not eligible on account of not ever doing a gt (so not a spoiler).

With the real 42nd pick of the 2015 draft the Hitch picks Andy Schleck of Saxobank, thereby continuing his trend of making the team UN Postal by picking a different country every round.

Once again, I made the choice by looking at value and taking BRA (best rider available). Netjerk was already suggesting Schleck back in the 3rd round and I honestly would not have been surprised to see him go even earlier than that.

He's far from the perfect rider.
Can't tt.
Can't ride on the flat.
Can't domestique, even if the leader is a blood relation who he actually loves (chose to go drinking instead)
Can't go more than a few days without complaining about things he has no right to complain about.
Quite simply didn't seem able to handle the pressure.

But, according to that graph from the other thread, he is one of only 4 riders in the last dozen years to break 6wk in a Tour (and perhaps in a gt full stop). The other 3 riders to manage it went 2nd, 3rd and 6th overall (with a few riders from the 90's in between) so to get the final muscateer at #42 is a chance that should not be passed up.

Even though Andrew obviously came a lot closer to winning his Tour in 2010 and won 2 stages, I am taking the 2009 version which finished way back, for a few reasons.

First of all by pure power, his outputs were higher.

Secondly, the 2009 Tour was imo, I have always said one of the most doped up tours since the 90's anyway. Maybe even 2nd or 3rd most ridiculous doped TDF out of the last 15.

Thirdly , 2009 was the one year Andrew wasn't complaing about *** he had no right to complain about. In 2008, 2010 and 2011, he did, always about different things.

Perhaps most importantly, Andy was a better more respectable rider back then. In fact his whole career almost went in reverse as he seemed to get worse with time (from 2009 onwards every year his power outputs got worse until he retired).
Back in 2009 he actually won Liege with a very impressive attack. He also quite generously held back quite a lot of the time to help his brother. Schleck knew he wasn't going to win the Tour to one of the most dominant gt performances ever from Contador, and he knew no one would catch him for 2nd, so on Ventoux, he held back to help his brother and still put up a great time, and on the Madeline stage he called a truce with Contador to let his brother win the stage. Despite that, the final power outputs were amazing.

I don't know exactly what Andy will do for my team, besides just being another amazing mountain goat (and actually, quite probably the last leadout man for Armstrong). I'm basically just taking a tremendous talent with questionable attitude and throwing him in because the talent is too much to pass up.

Oh and if all else fails, Andy is very good at getting bottles, he even did this for his team in the 2010 Tour while in the yellow jersey (and then again later in his career when he wasn't very good)

Round 1

Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain ('95 Tour)
Pick 2: The Hitch - Lance Armstrong ('04 Tour)
Pick 3: The Sceptic - Jan Ullrich ('97 Tour)
Pick 4: The Green Monkey - Alberto Contador ('09 Tour)
Pick 5: zlev11 - Marco Pantani ('99 Giro)
Pick 6: burning - Bjarne Riis ('96 Tour)
Pick 7: Netserk - Ivan Basso ('06 Giro)
Pick 8: Zam Olyas - Gianni Bugno ('90 Giro)
Pick 9: Tonton - Evgeni Berzin ('94 Giro)
Pick 10: Ciranda - Roberto Heras ('04 Vuelta)

Round 2

Pick 11: Ciranda - Tyler Hamilton ('03 Tour)
Pick 12: Tonton - Chris Froome ('13 Tour)
Pick 13: Zam Olyas - Tony Rominger ('95 Giro)
Pick 14: Netserk - Piotr Ugrumov ('94 Tour)
Pick 15: burning - Richard Virenque ('97 Tour)
Pick 16: zlev11 - Floyd Landis ('06 Tour)
Pick 17: The Green Monkey - Alex Zülle ('95 Tour)
Pick 18: The Sceptic - Santi Pérez ('04 Vuelta)
Pick 19: The Hitch - Michael Rasmussen ('07 Tour)
Pick 20: Libertine Seguros - Laurent Jalabert ('95 Vuelta)

Round 3

Pick 21: Ciranda - Frank Vandenbroucke ('99 Vuelta)
Pick 22: Tonton - Alexander Vinokourov ('03 Tour)
Pick 23: Zam Olyas - Denis Menchov ('09 Giro)
Pick 24: Netserk - Pavel Tonkov ('98 Giro)
Pick 25: burning - Gilberto Simoni ('03 Giro)
Pick 26: zlev11 - Riccardo Ricco ('08 Tour)
Pick 27: The Green Monkey - Ivan Gotti ('97 Giro)
Pick 28: The Sceptic - Chris Horner ('13 Vuelta)
Pick 29: The Hitch - Nairo Quintana ('13 Tour)
Pick 30: Libertine Seguros - Joseba Beloki ('01 Tour)

Round 4

Pick 31: Libertine Seguros - José María Jiménez ('98 Vuelta)
Pick 32: The Hitch - Vincenzo Nibali ('14 Tour)
Pick 33: The Sceptic - Aitor Gonzalez ('02 Vuelta)
Pick 34: The Green Monkey - Emanuele Sella ('08 Giro)
Pick 35: zlev11 - Iban Mayo ('03 Tour)
Pick 36: burning - Bradley Wiggins ('12 Tour)
Pick 37: Netserk - Andreas Klöden ('06 Tour)
Pick 38: Zam Olyas - Claudio Chiappucci ('92 Tour)
Pick 39: Tonton - Alejandro Valverde ('09 Vuelta)
Pick 40: ciranda -

Round 5

Pick 41: Libertine Seguros - Fernando Escartin ('99 Tour)
Pick 42: The Hitch - Andy Schleck ('09 Tour)
Pick 43: The Sceptic -
Pick 44: The Green Monkey -
Pick 45: zlev11 -
Pick 46: burning -
Pick 47: Netserk -
Pick 48: Zam Olyas -
Pick 49: Tonton -
Pick 50: ciranda -

 

[zlev11]

damn, that made me realize how much I miss Andy Schleck :-(

i know he wasn't all that popular with cycling fans but i myself really enjoyed watching him climb, what a shame.

 

[Netserk]

We all know that after one hiccup where Lance yells at him, he will cry and abandon.

The good news is that because of his lack of balls he should easily get a TUE for testosterone. Also, no one will raise an eyebrow when they find out that he has paid large sums to a gynecologist.

 

[the sceptic]

With this pick I select the most dominant sprinter of the EPO era, Mario Cipollini (2002 giro)

One of my favourite riders of the EPO era, so I had to take him now before it was too late.

With super Mario I will be in contention on every flat stage, but most importantly I pick him for his great personality and attitude. For Cipo, being the alpha male of the peloton was almost as important as being the best sprinter in the world. Aside from having the best wardrobe in cycling, he would also regularly piss of cycling purists and organizers with his antics. But the only thing that mattered to Cipo was Cipo. His amazing personality will surely bring in extra sponsors and the fans will either love him or hate him. But either way, it's never boring with him around.

As an added bonus, Cipo had no problem preparing to the max either, with HGH, EPO and 13 blood bags in 2002 alone.

 

[the delgados]

Finally we're getting to the sprinters. Cipollini was a great doper who possessed a lot of elan. But I don't think he'll fit in on your team. You need someone who doesn't need a lead-out train. (Hint)

 

[Tonton]

I wonder how many miles he Cippo would have completed at the '77 TdF

Sexy pick nonetheless...

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Finally we're getting to the sprinters. Cipollini was a great doper who possessed a lot of elan. But I don't think he'll fit in on your team. You need someone who doesn't need a lead-out train. (Hint)

yes and he'll probably sulk when the entire team isn't based around him.

but still it felt too wrong to pick another sprinter ahead of him, and I can still give him a mini train

 

[observer]

well done sceptic. classy pick.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

For this pick I am going to pick a rider more with the heart than the head, there probably are better climbers available. However this rider also has other qualities that can help the team, he completed a excellent double of TTs in the race I am choosing and has proven to be good on strade bianchi and cobbles in GTs.

I pick for my next pick the winner of the 2011 Tour de France winner Cadel Evans for his performance in the 2007 Tour.

The 2007 Tour appears to be both his best climbing performance and his best TT performance.

Round 5

Pick 41: Libertine Seguros - Fernando Escartin ('99 Tour)
Pick 42: The Hitch - Andy Schleck ('09 Tour)
Pick 43: The Sceptic - Mario Cipollini ('02 Giro)
Pick 44: The Green Monkey - Cadel Evans ('07 Tour)
Pick 45: zlev11 -
Pick 46: burning -
Pick 47: Netserk -
Pick 48: Zam Olyas -
Pick 49: Tonton -
Pick 50: ciranda -

 

[zlev11]

I desperately need a '90's guy so I select Laurent Dufaux (1996 Tour de France)

4th overall in the last Tour de France before the 50% rule along with an incredible stage win by outsprinting Bjarne Riis in Pamplona on the queen stage, a 262 kilometer slog over the Col de Soulor, Aubisque, Marie-Blanque, Soudet, and Port de Larrau. He will be our super-domestique in the mountains.

Round 5

Pick 41: Libertine Seguros - Fernando Escartin ('99 Tour)
Pick 42: The Hitch - Andy Schleck ('09 Tour)
Pick 43: The Sceptic - Mario Cipollini ('02 Giro)
Pick 44: The Green Monkey - Cadel Evans ('07 Tour)
Pick 45: zlev11 - Laurent Dufaux ('96 Tour)
Pick 46: burning -
Pick 47: Netserk -
Pick 48: Zam Olyas -
Pick 49: Tonton -
Pick 50: ciranda -

 

[D-Queued]

Re: Re:

i was going to take this guy with my 2nd round pick, i didn't think he would fall quite this far

Team Gewiss-Saunier Duval selects Iban Mayo (2003 Tour de France)
...

Excellent choice. Too bad he crashed the next year.

Someone that could have rivaled Lance, but like Beloki met with bad luck.

He was actually my fourth choice of those still unpicked.

So many good dopers to choose from.So little time!

Dave.

There is a PM facility

To clarify, this post was meant as a joke, I am not expecting any help.

Probably don't need the help, but my guy just got taken.

And my next three are still surprisingly wide open!

I do really like the Cipo pick, though. At the same time, there are some true flaming nostril dopers I would have picked before him. If only Cipo had been a threat on Champs Elysees.

Dave.

 

[hrotha]

Dufaux is a very appropriate pick right after Romandie.

 

[zlev11]

oh yeah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZZ5PbRs8w8

 

[Tonton]

Burning is slow cooking.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

In which case allow me to plug the gap with my justification for Escartín.

It's fairly simple; the '99 Tour, despite the initial semblance of being cleaner post-Festina, wasn't. Fernando Escartín has always throughout his career been a great climber; he gradually built up his GT results as his career went on, and by the late 90s he was one of the elite climbers in the péloton. Having podiumed the Vuelta two years running, he set his sights on the Tour for real in 1999, and promptly managed his best ever result with 3rd, including a memorable and exciting stage win on the long and gradual ascent to the ski station at Piau-Engaly; though the final part of the climb is the only steep part, which you would have thought would discourage long range attacks, Fernando took it home from the base of the penultimate climb of the day, the Col d'Azet, and put over two minutes into some top 2 round picks. Most of the time he lost, he lost in time trials; in his Vuelta podiums, he was the man putting on the pressure and he was regularly 2nd to Jiménez in the stages of the '98 Vuelta that caused my pick of Chava; he climbed with Lance and Zülle on Alpe d'Huez and was best of the rest in the infamous Sestrières stage when the world of Lance domination was imposed upon us for the first time. And besides, in Beloki and Jiménez I have two of the most stylish climbers of the era... with Fernando Escartín I also now have one of the least.

Escartín complements my climbing corps though; he is a middle ground between the GC-minded superdomestique Beloki and the heart-over-head nature of Chava. Big Mig is more than capable in the ascents, but he's not a change-of-pace guy; he sets tempos and grinds everyone to dust with them, rather than exploding away with attacks. I now have three supporting riders who can respond to any attacks on Indurain and break up rhythms should he be caught, and I also have a variety of stagehunting climbing attacks, ranging from the classical, effortless floating up the hills to the awkward, shuffling movements of The Crab.

 

[Tonton]

I'm getting a bit restless. Maybe we should have a time limit between picks, and whomever doesn't pick in a timely fashion gets to choose two riders on his next pick.

And by the way, looking not at the riders but at the years, there's an interesting graph of doping history that is slowly emerging.

 

[D-Queued]

I'm getting a bit restless. Maybe we should have a time limit between picks, and whomever doesn't pick in a timely fashion gets to choose two riders on his next pick.

And by the way, looking not at the riders but at the years, there's an interesting graph of doping history that is slowly emerging.

He who dopes first, dopes best?

That graph may be distorted by the fact that truth may emerge, but sometimes takes longer than one might hope.

Or, as JP Sartres would have acknowledged, studying history is like looking through the rear window of a moving car. The greater the distance, the clearer things are.

Dave.

 

[Netserk]

My pick is ready, in case sceptic thinks we should move forward. But I do think burning should be able to have his pick whenever he is here again, so he doesn't have to wait all the way to his next time.

 

[burning]

Wow, I had no idea that it was my turn. Anyway, I select Luc Leblanc from '94 Tour.

I think people should pm whoever is next.