Federal Prosecutor Doug Miller Assigned to Landis case

[blackcat]

come on folks, Tailwind make Custer Battles look ethical

 

[Oldman]

It is pretty simple:

Tailwind conspired to take money under false pretense to promote USPS.

They more than likely had a provision in their contract stating that the would not break the law or the rules of their sport in undertaking the promotion of USPS. In fact, there are Federal contracting guidelines that require inclusion of this type of provision for anyone contracting with the govt., it is standard language.

They used organized doping (illegal by law, and in the rule of the sport) to assist in achieving results, thereby promoting USPS.

They surely concealed this lawbreaking behavior and information from the Govt., for had the Govt. known, they would have cancelled the contract for breach.

Tailwind endeavored to perform this deception repeatedly, over a pattern of years, within an organized enterprise with clear structure, as well as clear beneficiaries of the deception. They knowingly made fraudulent claims that the work they were doing was above board.

USPS continued to pay against the contract, as they believed there was no law breaking/rule breaking going on.

The damage is occurring now. The fraud is being revealed. The USPS cannot b happy to finally come to understand that the wins were not genuine, in the sense that they were obtained legally and within the rules of the sport.

Playing the logic game, that "they did what everyone was doing", or , "the USPS got what they wanted", or some other non-sense, is not valid thought.

TO the extent it matches with the necessary items to qualify for RICO, better do some homework, as this fraud scheme EXCEEDS what is generally accepted or necessary to be taken as RICO. As a matter of preference and authority, the prosecutor can take this in several directions. I am simply saying that should Miller choose, he has all the criteria to make it RICO.

So, as said before, it is a grim outlook for the Tailwind crew and Lance.

Very grim.

You've got some really loose ends to tie up to get a criminal fraud or RICO conviction. Again, civil fraud from the prior SGA ruling and any former/current contracts that contained "cleanliness" clauses could be an expensive problem. Unless any of these guys lie under oath (in a criminal case) or were proven to have stolen money, transported controlled substances for sale or distribution; they won't do time.
The people at USA Cycling on the other hand; may have done many of these things and they are not as personally well off. The guy that deserves to get hurt as much as LA in all of this is Weisel. If they get something on him he has the absolute most to lose and his ethics are likely for sale.

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

Are you lying and cheating in your private life?

You're utilizing the "everybody cheats" defense?

and you are stupid enough to believe they DON'T?

 

[Jimmy Riddle]

You would rather they just keep believing in a fraud the rest of the their lives? Protect criminals is that your thought? Does this go for any hero? If someone raises money for charity but has some bad qualities, we should just suppress them so the people who look up to them aren't hurt?

That's not the point I made. Of course running an excellent cancer charity does not allow to get away with anything you want. But that doesn't mean we should be happy about upsetting the hundreds of thousands of people that support his charity. Many people here don't seem to give them a second thought. It comes across as quite selfish.

 

[Jimmy Riddle]

Still no one has answered my question of what they WANT to happen in terms of jail time.

What you want to happen is distinct from what you believe will happen of course.

 

[Tubeless]

Lance will have the G-Men wearing LiveStrong Bands by the time this is all over with.

Sure, Lance will pay a big "fine" ouch ouch.

I'm guessing around $500,000.

Jail time & big fines? Probably not.

My prediction is that there will be an indictment, and lots of plea-bargaining thereafter. There's probably enough shades of gray in the facts and the law for the feds, and a chance to avoid an embarrassing trial for the defendant - that both sides will want to make a deal.

While there are likely to be pile-on civil lawsuits afterwards, the most damaging to Armstrong both personally and financially will be the loss of his image as a cancer-survivor, and a 7-time (clean) Tour de France champion.

Armstrong will leave cycling - no more team management for him. Trek will ditch their favorite rider. His charity operations will shrink, or die. Speaker fees @ $150,000 per event - gone. No more book sales. Oakley will lose the Armstrong shades. Michelob will sign a deal with Landis instead.

Armstrong is likely to keep his freedom and most of his illl-gotten monies. But the indictment alone will be very damaging. His legacy will be tainted and his future limited. Mentally this will be a tough test how he'll proceed forward in his narsistic ways. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy...

Sort of like Jan Ullrich, once a poster-boy in Germany.

 

[Oldman]

Still no one has answered my question of what they WANT to happen in terms of jail time.

What you want to happen is distinct from what you believe will happen of course.

You ask an irrelevant question you may wait a long time for an answer. Most people here want a clean sport. They also want the shameless profiteers to give up some ill gotten spoils.

 

[Oldman]

Jail time & big fines? Probably not.

My prediction is that there will be an indictment, and lots of plea-bargaining thereafter. There's probably enough shades of gray in the facts and the law for the feds, and a chance to avoid an embarrassing trial for the defendant - that both sides will want to make a deal.

While there are likely to be pile-on civil lawsuits afterwards, the most damaging to Armstrong both personally and financially will be the loss of his image as a cancer-survivor, and a 7-time (clean) Tour de France champion.

Armstrong will leave cycling - no more team management for him. Trek will ditch their favorite rider. His charity operations will shrink, or die. Speaker fees @ $150,000 per event - gone. No more book sales. Oakley will lose the Armstrong shades. Michelob will sign a deal with Landis instead.

Armstrong is likely to keep his freedom and most of his illl-gotten monies. But the indictment alone will be very damaging. His legacy will be tainted and his future limited. Mentally this will be a tough test how he'll proceed forward in his narsistic ways. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy...

Sort of like Jan Ullrich, once a poster-boy in Germany.

Very much agree. Hopefully he'll spend much personal time with attorneys fending off legal actions. I don't want to see him crying on Oprah.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

You've got some really loose ends to tie up to get a criminal fraud or RICO conviction. Again, civil fraud from the prior SGA ruling and any former/current contracts that contained "cleanliness" clauses could be an expensive problem. Unless any of these guys lie under oath (in a criminal case) or were proven to have stolen money, transported controlled substances for sale or distribution; they won't do time.
The people at USA Cycling on the other hand; may have done many of these things and they are not as personally well off. The guy that deserves to get hurt as much as LA in all of this is Weisel. If they get something on him he has the absolute most to lose and his ethics are likely for sale.

Show me the loose ends.

Conspiring to defraud the govt into giving them money.

Clear enterprise and structure, with knowledge and participation in the acts

Sufficient longevity.

Organized manner by which the laws were conspired to be broken, (ie not opportunistic).

Mail/Wire fraud, goes without saying.

Issue of consent, meaning the govt. would not have directly or indirectly authorized or consented these rules of law or sport to be broken, no more than they would continue within their contract had they been informed of the scheme.

Bear in mind, generally, only two of all the criteria must be present for a matter to be taken as RICO. This situation has nearly all elements.

 

[Anonymous]

quite simple really............look who hangs around these boards............

losers and dopers..............


looks like I'm in the loser category

I'm not a loser...of course, no loser thinks they are a loser, so my judgment is suspect...

 

[BikeCentric]

Something I've always wondered with the talk about Armstrogn what does SSDD mean?

Same Sport Different Drugs.

 

[Polish]

Hope Rides Again

I so hope this goes to trial. I hope I hope I hope.

Eddy on the Stand as a Character Witness for the Defense.
Explain the rich history of Cycling 1970's style.

Otto and EddieB on the stand under oath explaining the doping that was going on in the 80's and the 90's.

And this was the System that young Lance was thrust into.
It chewed him up. NomNomNom.

Sure. Lance TRIED to raise the flag.
Sent e-mails to WADA and the ASO regarding Spanish Doping pre-puerto.
Did anyone listen? No, they mocked Lance.

He donated money to buy test equipment to catch dopers.
Deep down Lance was hoping the equipment would catch him.
Get him out of the Evil Fraudulent System he was trapped in

I so hope for a trial
Otto and EddieB on the stand under Oath.
Greg on the stand under oath.

Lance should hire F. Lee Bailey, Robert Shapiro, Alan Dershowitz, Robert Kardashian, Gerald Uelmen, and Carl E. Douglas. Attorneys specializing in DNA evidence, Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld, should be hired to to discredit the prosecution's DNA evidence.

 

[Hitchey]

[/QUOTE]

LOL, I can't stop laughing at some of the stuff people come up with. I mean specifically and only the video

 

[MacRoadie]

I so hope this goes to trial. I hope I hope I hope.

Eddy on the Stand as a Character Witness for the Defense.
Explain the rich history of Cycling 1970's style.

Otto and EddieB on the stand under oath explaining the doping that was going on in the 80's and the 90's.

And this was the System that young Lance was thrust into.
It chewed him up. NomNomNom.

Sure. Lance TRIED to raise the flag.
Sent e-mails to WADA and the ASO regarding Spanish Doping pre-puerto.
Did anyone listen? No, they mocked Lance.

He donated money to buy test equipment to catch dopers.
Deep down Lance was hoping the equipment would catch him.
Get him out of the Evil Fraudulent System he was trapped in

I so hope for a trial
Otto and EddieB on the stand under Oath.
Greg on the stand under oath.

Lance should hire F. Lee Bailey, Robert Shapiro, Alan Dershowitz, Robert Kardashian, Gerald Uelmen, and Carl E. Douglas. Attorneys specializing in DNA evidence, Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld, should be hired to to discredit the prosecution's DNA evidence.

Since Eddy B. started it all right in Lance's backyard, maybe he should have started his covert anti-doping campaign right here at home.

And Robert Kardashian is dead, you idiot.

Greg is the LAST guy you want on the stand...

 

[Tubeless]

I so hope this goes to trial. I hope I hope I hope.

Eddy on the Stand as a Character Witness for the Defense.
Explain the rich history of Cycling 1970's style.

Otto and EddieB on the stand under oath explaining the doping that was going on in the 80's and the 90's.

And this was the System that young Lance was thrust into.
It chewed him up. NomNomNom.

Sure. Lance TRIED to raise the flag.
Sent e-mails to WADA and the ASO regarding Spanish Doping pre-puerto.
Did anyone listen? No, they mocked Lance.

He donated money to buy test equipment to catch dopers.
Deep down Lance was hoping the equipment would catch him.
Get him out of the Evil Fraudulent System he was trapped in

I so hope for a trial
Otto and EddieB on the stand under Oath.
Greg on the stand under oath.

Lance should hire F. Lee Bailey, Robert Shapiro, Alan Dershowitz, Robert Kardashian, Gerald Uelmen, and Carl E. Douglas. Attorneys specializing in DNA evidence, Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld, should be hired to to discredit the prosecution's DNA evidence.

Me too would love to see a trial. It would be entertaining.

You're dreaming of Lance's defense? Poor young rider that others took advantage of. He succumbed to the system's flaws and became an unwilling participant. A star-studded defense team - straight from the OJ Simpson legacy? "If the glove does not fit, you must acquit"?

The problem? The potential criminal charges are not about doping. It's irrelevant if others doped. The anti-doping Armstrong image believable? Sure.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Not surprising to me. I think I said when this got started that at some point the DOJ would get involved.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I changed the title to something more readable.

The link in the first post is still dead though, so I updated it.

Read the article here.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I changed the title to something more readable.

The link in the first post is still dead though, so I updated it.

Read the article here.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I changed the title to something more readable.

The link in the first post is still dead though, so I updated it.

Read the article here.

.

 

[Berzin]

My ears hear that riders are falling in line... not much arm twisting when everyone hates the guy, that and the Feds are only asking once nicely.

Is this true? Please tell us what your ears are hearing.

You can't leave us hanging like that!!!

How about if I guess? Would one of the guys be Tyler Hamilton?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Is this true? Please tell us what your ears are hearing.

You can't leave us hanging like that!!!

How about if I guess? Would one of the guys be Tyler Hamilton?

I hear many, many things since this all started. I have heard, at one time, something about nearly every rider named.

I would not be surprised, in the least, if Mr. Hamilton had already proffered his knowledge on the subject, though I have no way to confirm this to be true at the moment.

 

[Parrot23]

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/lance-armstrong-net-worth/

This is an obscenity for purportedly riding your bike. This has little to do with the bike or athletic competition: it's about a business plain and simple, a fake branding exercise defrauding sponsors.

Fanboys persist in thinking this is about doping in cycling in general, ROFLMAO.

 

[Parrot23]

your logic is flawed too...........all the top guys were doped so if he doesn't win then the next doper in line wins............

Again totally missing the point, which is Lance Inc. is a business=Tailwind=large profits through fraud, i.e., gained by false means/pretenses, whatever.

I'm not aware of Cancellera, Vinokourev, Heras, pick your doper, running large businesses pulling in $10's of millions over years.

It's very unusual for a cyclist to de facto incorporate himself as a business. Tailwind does not pass the smell test.

 

[Parrot23]

It is pretty simple:

Tailwind conspired to take money under false pretense to promote USPS.

They more than likely had a provision in their contract stating that the would not break the law or the rules of their sport in undertaking the promotion of USPS. In fact, there are Federal contracting guidelines that require inclusion of this type of provision for anyone contracting with the govt., it is standard language.

They used organized doping (illegal by law, and in the rule of the sport) to assist in achieving results, thereby promoting USPS.

They surely concealed this lawbreaking behavior and information from the Govt., for had the Govt. known, they would have cancelled the contract for breach.

Tailwind endeavored to perform this deception repeatedly, over a pattern of years, within an organized enterprise with clear structure, as well as clear beneficiaries of the deception. They knowingly made fraudulent claims that the work they were doing was above board.

USPS continued to pay against the contract, as they believed there was no law breaking/rule breaking going on.

The damage is occurring now. The fraud is being revealed. The USPS cannot b happy to finally come to understand that the wins were not genuine, in the sense that they were obtained legally and within the rules of the sport.

Playing the logic game, that "they did what everyone was doing", or , "the USPS got what they wanted", or some other non-sense, is not valid thought.

TO the extent it matches with the necessary items to qualify for RICO, better do some homework, as this fraud scheme EXCEEDS what is generally accepted or necessary to be taken as RICO. As a matter of preference and authority, the prosecutor can take this in several directions. I am simply saying that should Miller choose, he has all the criteria to make it RICO.

So, as said before, it is a grim outlook for the Tailwind crew and Lance.

Very grim.

Exactly: this is about a business.

 

[Parrot23]

I don't want to see him crying on Oprah.

He can uses Oprah's couch like Tom Cruise, and do those jump squats over it like in his exercise bench ads/promos. Can huff and puff all he wants there.