Teams & Riders Filippo Ganna Discussion Thread

[Extinction]

Apart from mvdp having a huge engine and explosivness and technical abilities which are all against Ganna. I sometimes think people forget how well VDP can also ride on his own. Especially on a road bike compared to TT bike

I don't think it's the huge engine so much that works against Ganna, who certainly has a big cylinders motor, but the explosiveness and technical abilities. For that cost Ganna much energy expenditure that killed him in the end.

MVDP wasn't an absolute beast today, who, by his own admition, had as good of legs as ever, but Ganna was deep into the race much longer than I thought him capable. Now if one year MVDP is going a bit less well and Ganna rides technically a bit better...The point is the Italian has improved considerably all of a sudden in the monuments (MSR and PR), which is good for an Italian cycling that could use a boost.

 

[Extinction]

Ok so he's on the same level as Küng.
It's a whole different world compared to where he was before this race.

That's the point. Just a few years ago he finished outside the time limit.

 

[tobydawq]

Ok so he's on the same level as Küng.
It's a whole different world compared to where he was before this race.

True, but it seemed like a few people half expected him to be able to ride away from Wout and Mathieu, which frankly was a little tiring given his non-existent one-day race pedigree (of course that pedigree is now something else than it was a month ago).

 

[Extinction]

Don't see all the enthusiasm about him. He was struggling big time already in Arenberg when he was dropped by Pedersen. He just stayed in the main group because they weren't attacking one single time until Carrefour. For me it looked like a Louis Meintjes performance. When he is hanging on for dear life but we all know when the bog favourites move, he will be dropped.

Well, for those interested in the rider, going from finishing outside the time limit in his first participation to sixth today isn't insignificant. Ganna was caught out badly positioned (his fault) on the sector before Arenberg, then had to make a huge effort before, during and after the forest to get back to Pederson, Van Aert and MVDP. MVDP attacked several times before Carrefour, and if the others weren't it's because they were on the limit, in what was the fastest Paris-Roubaix ever. Ganna came through well until Mons-en-Pevele, then struggled and fadded. Overall, however, his was perhaps the biggest improvement.

 

[Extinction]

True, but it seemed like a few people half expected him to be able to ride away from Wout and Mathieu, which frankly was a little tiring given his non-existent one-day race pedigree (of course that pedigree is now something else than it was a month ago).

Who thought he'd ride away from those guys? He was always a medium-range outsider going into today. In fact, I think nobody thought he'd get as deep into the race as he did.

 

[tobydawq]

Who thought he'd ride away from those guys? He was always a medium-range outsider going into today. In fact, I think nobody thought he'd get as deep into the race as he did.

Maybe I can't point to any exact take, I guess I was just a little irritated by the hype about him which I felt was completely unjustified.

 

[SafeBet]

True, but it seemed like a few people half expected him to be able to ride away from Wout and Mathieu, which frankly was a little tiring given his non-existent one-day race pedigree (of course that pedigree is now something else than it was a month ago).

I was among the ones pointing out his 4 star rating before the race made zero sense.
But what he showed today (and in Sanremo) makes him at least a good outsider for the foreseeable future in both races. That's where the enthusiasm is coming from, especially for the Italian fans who've been lacking a reliable Classic rider for some time now.

 

[Extinction]

Maybe I can't point to any exact take, I guess I was just a little irritated by the hype about him which I felt was completely unjustified.

What hype? I suppose a bit in Italy, because he was their best chance, but elsewhere?

 

[tobydawq]

What hype? I suppose a bit in Italy, because he was there best chance, but elsewhere?

Emil Axelgaard also had him as third biggest favourite. Betting sites had him there as well, equal to Mads Pedersen.

But I guess that wasn't too far away from the truth in the end, so maybe I shouldn't be having a problem with it

 

[Brullnux]

Don't see all the enthusiasm about him. He was struggling big time already in Arenberg when he was dropped by Pedersen. He just stayed in the main group because they weren't attacking one single time until Carrefour. For me it looked like a Louis Meintjes performance. When he is hanging on for dear life but we all know when the bog favourites move, he will be dropped.

The enthusiasm has been around for years (since he won the u23 edition), and is mixed with the fact he's got the biggest engine on flat roads in world cycling today. This is the first time he's come to Roubaix and done well, and he rode a very good race. Without him, I very much doubt Philipsen would've gotten in to the front group, and he was 5th/6th strongest on the day.

As others have said, his technical skills weren't up to scratch, and the race was probably too hard for him from the get go. 50kmh+ start, missed the first move, chased very hard on the trickiest section and the asphalt after, and then settled into the group. Even then, though he didn't struggle to follow Van der Poel's digs on the flat, he had to fight really hard to stay with the others on the cobbles - which is to be expected, he's a track/time trial specialist.

I think it's very harsh to say this was Louis Meintjes esque. For one, he was Top 6, so maybe Pozzovivo or Enric Mas is a better example. But even then it's unfair, because the difference with Ganna is that he is an exceptional athlete with a very impressive USP. After all, nobody has ever ridden further than him in an hour, and over a short TT he is unstoppable. Maybe in 2/3 years' time, when he's 28 or 29, his cobble skills will have improved, there's an easier edition, he might be able to ride the rest off his wheel and win. This was a very positive step, just as he has started to really hone in on classics as a possibility (people have mentioned Milano Sanremo, but his 11th place in E3 shouldn't be forgotten about either)

 

[SafeBet]

The enthusiasm has been around for years (since he won the u23 edition), and is mixed with the fact he's got the biggest engine on flat roads in world cycling today. This is the first time he's come to Roubaix and done well, and he rode a very good race. Without him, I very much doubt Philipsen would've gotten in to the front group, and he was 5th/6th strongest on the day.

As others have said, his technical skills weren't up to scratch, and the race was probably too hard for him from the get go. 50kmh+ start, missed the first move, chased very hard on the trickiest section and the asphalt after, and then settled into the group. Even then, though he didn't struggle to follow Van der Poel's digs on the flat, he had to fight really hard to stay with the others on the cobbles - which is to be expected, he's a track/time trial specialist.

I think it's very harsh to say this was Louis Meintjes esque. For one, he was Top 6, so maybe Pozzovivo or Enric Mas is a better example. But even then it's unfair, because the difference with Ganna is that he is an exceptional athlete with a very impressive USP. After all, nobody has ever ridden further than him in an hour, and over a short TT he is unstoppable. Maybe in 2/3 years' time, when he's 28 or 29, his cobble skills will have improved, there's an easier edition, he might be able to ride the rest off his wheel and win. This was a very positive step, just as he has started to really hone in on classics as a possibility (people have mentioned Milano Sanremo, but his 11th place in E3 shouldn't be forgotten about either)

Well said. This was one of the most straight forward editions of PR I can remember. The strongest riders went away (with the exception of Laporte and maybe Asgreen) and never looked back. They went full gas for more than 100 km in the fastest ever edition of the race.

And Ganna was there not because he anticipated or because he was lucky. He was one of the strongest. Give him a more tactical race and perhaps he can even win one day.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Emil Axelgaard also had him as third biggest favourite. Betting sites had him there as well, equal to Mads Pedersen.

But I guess that wasn't too far away from the truth in the end, so maybe I shouldn't be having a problem with it

Italian media (la gazzetta) only had him as a 3 star favourite, while Pedersen got 4. That looked like a realistic outlook to me.

 

[Red Rick]

Meanwhile I wonder where he was positioned when the front group went away on Haveluy. There's a lot of stuff we didn't see there from the 2nd group.

I think he can improve by better tactics alone. Getting in the wrong position, and then doing ALL the work chasing back wasn't great. If he's on the right wheel going into Haveluy I'm convinced they're gone with the him, Van Aert, MvdP, Laporte and Degenkolb.

Technical skills need to get better, and I don't know how much it can improve, but it's a difference that should accumulate over the race.

The downside I see is I simply don't see a lot of passive Roubaixs happen in the future. Maybe it has to be thanks to wind, in that a Roubaix with more crosswinds would be more chaotic and put more emphasis on the normal roads.

 

[Netserk]

If he stopped pulling after Van der Poel attacked out of Camphin-en-Pévèle, it would get more tactical. To win, he needed the cooperation to stop and the speed to drop. Then attack on the asphalt.

But I think it's hard for most riders to defect if they don't have an alibi after having cooperated for more than an hour in the group. Which is also why it was valuable that Laporte kept chasing, so Van Aert could save himself.

By the time they reached Carrefour de l'Arbre, both he and Küng were empty.

 

[SafeBet]

Meanwhile I wonder where he was positioned when the front group went away on Haveluy. There's a lot of stuff we didn't see there from the 2nd group.

I think he had only Connor Swift close to him and lost his wheel. You can see Swift near the front before entering that sector but Ganna is not there.
Luckily Swift was still with Ganna at the end of Haveluy and pulled to keep the second group at a reasonable distance before Arenberg.

 

[Mayomaniac]

If he stopped pulling after Van der Poel attacked out of Camphin-en-Pévèle, it would get more tactical. To win, he needed the cooperation to stop and the speed to drop. Then attack on the asphalt.

But I think it's hard for most riders to defect if they don't have an alibi after having cooperated for more than an hour in the group. Which is also why it was valuable that Laporte kept chasing, so Van Aert could save himself.

By the time they reached Carrefour de l'Arbre, both he and Küng were empty.

Pretty much this. I think next year he should ride also the RVV as part of the team strategy. Have multiple strong riders who can attack. On paper it's a lot worse for him because of the short, steep climbs, but the OK looks perfect for him.
AGR might be not that bad for him. No cobbles and the climbs aren't absurdly steep. The amount of roundabouts amd road furniture iis the one thing that makes the Dutch motopacing WC so hectic and stand out. I do think that there's a decent amount of crossover between Amstel and MSR, if you look at the kind of riders who do well.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

„Jour sans“ today, at the Giro…

After San Remo, I thought 2023 would be „his“ year… Hope for better times to come, for him…

 

[Peyroteo94]

He needs to step his game in classics, otherwise he will not be relevant in the next years. Remco is finally hitting his prime so Ganna will not be the main force in TT anymore

 

[Red Rick]

I guess it's very hard to get a good peak for both ~ Paris Roubaix and then the Giro prologue.

Kung wasn't exactly flying either today

 

[Mayomaniac]

I guess it's very hard to get a good peak for both ~ Paris Roubaix and then the Giro prologue.

Kung wasn't exactly flying either today

Plus when has Ganna ever been great in his first TT/race right after a block of altitude training?

 

[Red Rick]

Plus when has Ganna ever been great in his first TT/race right after a block of altitude training?

All I know about Ganna and altitude training I know from you so.....

Good point.

 

[Mayomaniac]

All I know about Ganna and altitude training I know from you so.....

Good point.

I mean, him not winning against a flying Remco is one thing and really not a tragedy, but if you look at how small the gap to Almeida and McNulty is compared to the 11.5km Tirreno-Adriatico ITT I find it hard to believe that this is Ganna at his best.

 

[Red Rick]

I mean, him not winning against a flying Remco is one thing and really not a tragedy, but if you look at how small the gap to Almeida and McNulty is compared to the 11.5km Tirreno-Adriatico ITT I find it hard to believe that this is Ganna at his best.

Yes, and I would assume Ganna in top form wouldn't blow up like he did on that small hill.

 

[BR2]

He needs to step his game in classics, otherwise he will not be relevant in the next years. Remco is finally hitting his prime so Ganna will not be the main force in TT anymore

He won't be relevant anymore? He's ranked as one of the best riders of the season, was 2nd in MSR and 6th in P-R. Is everybody not named Evenepoel or Pogacar supposed to retire at the end of the season for lack of results, or what?

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Is everybody not named Evenepoel or Pogacar supposed to retire at the end of the season for lack of results, or what?

Maybe not retire, but more than ever, it‘s all about winning.

Decades ago I read in a cycling racing book about the mentality of the protagonists. They wrote something like (translated from German), „The best riders race by the motto, ‚Nothing is more successful then success is‘“… („Die besten Fahrer fahren nach der Devise, „Nichts ist erfolgreicher als der Erfolg“).

I found this to be quite an arrogant statement, back then. But as we say, the winner takes it all.

Of course, everyone expected more from Ganna today, including me. He got humiliated by Evenepoel, nothing less. Ganna was only 18 seconds faster than Tao G. Hart, so gained nearly a second per km on TGH. That was not enough to win this TT.