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FL Stage 17

Oct 31, 2012
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Hi all,
Long time lurker, first time poster. Couldnt find another thread and I am sure many here could help me.

Floyd tested positive for testosterone in 2006, right?
My limited knowledge leads me to believe that he blood doped for the stage. He had a poor day, and then a blinder the next, which plays well with Tylers tales.

Has Floyd ever confessed to anything like this or was it still an amazing ride against a doped peloton?
 
Bontie said:
Hi all,
Long time lurker, first time poster. Couldnt find another thread and I am sure many here could help me.

Floyd tested positive for testosterone in 2006, right?
My limited knowledge leads me to believe that he blood doped for the stage. He had a poor day, and then a blinder the next, which plays well with Tylers tales.

Has Floyd ever confessed to anything like this or was it still an amazing ride against a doped peloton?

As far as I understand, FL admits the BB, denies the vague testosteron positive (as did tyler the homologous, and Ben Johnson the thing that tripped him).
Seems that FL was the only supremely talented rider in that tour, and his doping was middle of the road for that time.
It was a heck of a ride. IMO aided by him bonking the day before, his legs did not suffer like the others. So, he was let loose the next day. It was probably as level a playind fiels as there ever had been since EPO's introduction in the early 90's. And yes, Lance probably called the UCI on him. Technology and knowledge to prove transfusions was not quite there yet, so they'd have to catch him on something Lance knew he'd been on, because he gave it to him personally.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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Cloxxki said:
As far as I understand, FL admits the BB, denies the vague testosteron positive (as did tyler the homologous, and Ben Johnson the thing that tripped him).
Seems that FL was the only supremely talented rider in that tour, and his doping was middle of the road for that time.
It was a heck of a ride. IMO aided by him bonking the day before, his legs did not suffer like the others. So, he was let loose the next day. It was probably as level a playind fiels as there ever had been since EPO's introduction in the early 90's. And yes, Lance probably called the UCI on him. Technology and knowledge to prove transfusions was not quite there yet, so they'd have to catch him on something Lance knew he'd been on, because he gave it to him personally.

That is the consistency between Hamilton and Floyd. Both concede that they have been doping when they were caught, but claim not to have taken what they were actually caught for. Adding to that, that Armstrong called up the UCI, when Hamilton posed a threat to him would make that even more believable.
What I can't believe so easily would be that the UCI would go as far as not only covering up doping positives, but also spiking tests on Armstrongs orders. That seems too far-fetched to me. If true however, it would be the final nail in UCI's coffin.
 
Lukenwolf said:
That is the consistency between Hamilton and Floyd. Both concede that they have been doping when they were caught, but claim not to have taken what they were actually caught for. Adding to that, that Armstrong called up the UCI, when Hamilton posed a threat to him would make that even more believable.
What I can't believe so easily would be that the UCI would go as far as not only covering up doping positives, but also spiking tests on Armstrongs orders. That seems too far-fetched to me. If true however, it would be the final nail in UCI's coffin.

How much does a lab worker make? What is a reasonable bribe (relative to salary) to help catch someone you know is guilty anyways, but too slick to hold on to? the lab in Cologne has not been bribed suffiently, hence us finding out about Contador's positive (which may be false as well, just the presence of plastisizers with yet to be validated test methods, complexed the case). Again an unloyal ex-teammate thinking he's such a big shot, not content with the royal 6-figure salaries anymore. After all they'd learned from Him. Not saying it's like that, but who knows. Maybe Contador's BB handlers were bribed. Everyone thinks about the bags, no-one about the tubes or needles. So easy to spike a blood tube. How many picograms? Same for FL's bags. He didn't exactly use independant saints for his trafficking.
 
Cloxxki said:
How much does a lab worker make? What is a reasonable bribe (relative to salary) to help catch someone you know is guilty anyways, but too slick to hold on to? the lab in Cologne has not been bribed suffiently, hence us finding out about Contador's positive (which may be false as well, just the presence of plastisizers with yet to be validated test methods, complexed the case). Again an unloyal ex-teammate thinking he's such a big shot, not content with the royal 6-figure salaries anymore. After all they'd learned from Him. Not saying it's like that, but who knows. Maybe Contador's BB handlers were bribed. Everyone thinks about the bags, no-one about the tubes or needles. So easy to spike a blood tube. How many picograms? Same for FL's bags. He didn't exactly use independant saints for his trafficking.

I've always figured that Floyd reinfused himself with testosterone-jacked blood. Seems like the simplest answer is that he or his dope doc made a mistake.
 
MarkvW said:
I've always figured that Floyd reinfused himself with testosterone-jacked blood. Seems like the simplest answer is that he or his dope doc made a mistake.

I was of that position also when he admitted to BB's. However he seemed to have given that an amount of thought and dismissed it himself. He doesn't seem to much problem admitting prior lies anymore, but can't go as far as saying this was it.
Who handled FL's BB's, where were they stored? Where were the tubes and needles stored? Who supplied them?
But as both FL and TH were "caught" right after an infuriatingly cool performance, there does appear to be a pattern. Post-fixing, and that requires testers/labs to be in on it. Far fetched sure, but reality in these matters never fails to amaze even the most free spirited AD hunters.
 
Lukenwolf said:
That is the consistency between Hamilton and Floyd. Both concede that they have been doping when they were caught, but claim not to have taken what they were actually caught for. Adding to that, that Armstrong called up the UCI, when Hamilton posed a threat to him would make that even more believable.
What I can't believe so easily would be that the UCI would go as far as not only covering up doping positives, but also spiking tests on Armstrongs orders. That seems too far-fetched to me. If true however, it would be the final nail in UCI's coffin.

I would have thought the last thing as former teamates that LA would want to out Hamilton or Landis, I know he was probably upset they left his team but by outing them in this manner it made them more likely to spill the beans on him.

Not saying he did not, but that it seems to high risk a stratergy.
 
Jul 9, 2010
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Lukenwolf said:
That is the consistency between Hamilton and Floyd. Both concede that they have been doping when they were caught, but claim not to have taken what they were actually caught for. Adding to that, that Armstrong called up the UCI, when Hamilton posed a threat to him would make that even more believable.
What I can't believe so easily would be that the UCI would go as far as not only covering up doping positives, but also spiking tests on Armstrongs orders. That seems too far-fetched to me. If true however, it would be the final nail in UCI's coffin.

I wondered about that myself. I think spiking is too difficult, but how about rigging the paperwork? Just swap two numbers, and you're done. I don't actually know how difficult that would be.

As for motives, Armstrong calling for Hamilton's removal doesn't seem too far-fetched. As for Landis, would that be Verbruggen's payback for the Mercury affair?
 
Jan 27, 2010
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MarkvW said:
I've always figured that Floyd reinfused himself with testosterone-jacked blood. Seems like the simplest answer is that he or his dope doc made a mistake.

Since we're talking about 2006, post-LA, in the theme of vindictive LA, and how did riders test positive when they shouldn't have...

Who actually blew the whistle on Fuentes, was it all J. Manzano? Was it truly the Spanish investigatiors or did they have a insider priming them? The Spanish do not appear to want to penalize dopers, even after they test positive, so why 'bust' them in the first place.

Sounds like LA destroying the future of other riders just because he can is more plausible (Occam's razor)

Basso, F. Schleck, Ullrich, Valv, Botero, Contador, Mancebo, Sevilla, Beloki, Scarponi, K. gill, T. Hamilton, J. Jaksche
 
del1962 wrote:

"I would have thought the last thing as former teamates that LA would want to out Hamilton or Landis, I know he was probably upset they left his team but by outing them in this manner it made them more likely to spill the beans on him.

Not saying he did not, but that it seems to high risk a stratergy."

Seems a lot of Armstrong's ex-teammates failed drug test after they left his protection.
 
gobuck said:
del1962 wrote:

"I would have thought the last thing as former teamates that LA would want to out Hamilton or Landis, I know he was probably upset they left his team but by outing them in this manner it made them more likely to spill the beans on him.

Not saying he did not, but that it seems to high risk a stratergy."

Seems a lot of Armstrong's ex-teammates failed drug test after they left his protection.

Could be less care and less protection though, though I would not rule out him dobbing them in, I am tended to go with the less care and protection.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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gobuck said:
del1962 wrote:

"I would have thought the last thing as former teamates that LA would want to out Hamilton or Landis, I know he was probably upset they left his team but by outing them in this manner it made them more likely to spill the beans on him.

Not saying he did not, but that it seems to high risk a stratergy."

Seems a lot of Armstrong's ex-teammates failed drug test after they left his protection.

Armstrong is a psychopathic Megalomaniac. I mean, seriously, he tried to blackmail Barrack Obama into attending a Liestrong event in 2005. And he knew that the UCI was complicit and he was proven right until the USADA said "Up yours!" and went through with it despite UCI's and Armstrongs attempts to sabotage their investigation.
He had really deluded himself into thinking he could get away with it. And he dealt with them in the same manner as every mafia organization. You simply do not sign up with a rival clan. If you leave the team, you're destroyed. And he did (or at least attempted) just that. Why else should he have called the UCI tip them off about Hamilton?
 
Sep 5, 2009
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MarkvW said:
I've always figured that Floyd reinfused himself with testosterone-jacked blood. Seems like the simplest answer is that he or his dope doc made a mistake.

Why include testosterone in stored blood, if possible, as a means of delivery through blood doping when straight forward injections, patches, creams, etc are simpler?

It is a secondary urine test that catches testosterone use as long as the t/e ratio exceeds 4:1. The ratio can be managed. Floyd was caught with ratios in tests on A & B samples of 11-12:1.
 
gobuck said:
del1962 wrote:

"I would have thought the last thing as former teamates that LA would want to out Hamilton or Landis, I know he was probably upset they left his team but by outing them in this manner it made them more likely to spill the beans on him.

Not saying he did not, but that it seems to high risk a stratergy."

Seems a lot of Armstrong's ex-teammates failed drug test after they left his protection.

Good point. Seems Lance had no vested interest with Fuentes' deal. It was the opposition's doc. Everyone who was someone, was with Fuentes. And doing well for themselves. He saw how Hamilton did nicely without Michele's guidance, which would be infuriating. A stupid Spanish doc better than his guru Michele, "not normal"! Outing Fuentes (he knew after all) would expose dozens of his rivals and those trying to steal his thrown of big-winner. Lance may have been disappointed that so little came of it, may have underestimated the Spanish Cyling Fed. Certainly up to the level he'd potty trained USA Cycling, impressive. And one has to be jealous of the support politics offered the Spanish stars. After all he's done for Bush Jr., what support did he get now, really? Thankless. #$^@!. He give him a Trek and a signed yellow jersey for goodness sake!
 
Jan 27, 2010
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Cloxxki said:
A stupid Spanish doc better than his guru Michele, "not normal"! Outing Fuentes (he knew after all) would expose dozens of his rivals and those trying to steal his thrown of big-winner. Lance may have been disappointed that so little came of it, may have underestimated the Spanish Cyling Fed. Certainly up to the level he'd potty trained USA Cycling, impressive. And one has to be jealous of the support politics offered the Spanish stars. After all he's done for Bush Jr., what support did he get now, really? Thankless. #$^@!. He give him a Trek and a signed yellow jersey for goodness sake!

Love your descriptors. Too funny, but not funny at the same time. It will come out.

Total wacko that little Lancey
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Bontie said:
Has Floyd ever confessed to anything like this or was it still an amazing ride against a doped peloton?

Once you agree that most of the top riders were on drugs then the obvious answer is it was still an amazing ride. A lot of sticky bottles though.

Still a badass ride, I remember it like it was yesterday.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Cloxxki said:
I was of that position also when he admitted to BB's. However he seemed to have given that an amount of thought and dismissed it himself. He doesn't seem to much problem admitting prior lies anymore, but can't go as far as saying this was it.
Who handled FL's BB's, where were they stored? Where were the tubes and needles stored? Who supplied them?
But as both FL and TH were "caught" right after an infuriatingly cool performance, there does appear to be a pattern. Post-fixing, and that requires testers/labs to be in on it. Far fetched sure, but reality in these matters never fails to amaze even the most free spirited AD hunters.

I still believe it was an "echo positive" from a re-infusion of blood.

Floyd himself he took testosterone on the lead up to the Tour - so he may have made a slight mistake with his timing.

del1962 said:
I would have thought the last thing as former teamates that LA would want to out Hamilton or Landis, I know he was probably upset they left his team but by outing them in this manner it made them more likely to spill the beans on him.

Not saying he did not, but that it seems to high risk a stratergy.
Agree - while I think LA may have been behind getting riders extra scrutiny in an attempt to dial down their doping it would be a dangerous approach to have them caught.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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i remember him coming across the line and thinking there is a face of an angry man. only now we know it was probably the testosterone talking.
 
Kender said:
i remember him coming across the line and thinking there is a face of an angry man. only now we know it was probably the testosterone talking.
Floyd-Landis-II.jpg
 
Kender said:
i remember him coming across the line and thinking there is a face of an angry man. only now we know it was probably the testosterone talking.

This has to be the biggest load of crap ever. You are going to determine who is doping by their victory salute? Uh-huh.

Landis just won an epic victory and put himself back in contention for winning the Tour after seeing everything fall apart during the previous stage. He was stoked. Anyone would be.