FLandis Racing in Nevada City

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jan 19, 2010
214
0
0
Thoughtforfood said:
Floyd opened the cover on the cesspool that is doping in professional cycling. You are also the third moron to suggest he "blackmailed" someone. The only people saying that are two of the biggest cheats in cycling, so I take what they say as having no value what-so-ever. In fact, the funny part is that they put out the emails that they claim show the "blackmail" and there is nothing in them that would suggest that.
TFF, I sure as hell hope you were not calling me a Moron.

AS to the claim of blackmail, lets ask Greg Lemond about FLandis and his blackmail. What exactly is it when you threaten to expose that someone was sexually abused as a child if they testify against you at a doping trial?

That IS blackmail!!!

Apparently, even though I stated that my comment has nothing to do with Armstrong, your blinded hatred of Lance makes it so bad that you cannot use logic in your posts. Step back, cool off, and start seeing things for what they are.

Landis, whom I wrote letters in support of to the old cyclingnews.com letters of the week site, is scum and is no hero. None of his actions are heroic.

Get some perspective man.

And, once again, note that I did not asy anything positive or negative about Lance.
 
Squares said:
T
Landis, whom I wrote letters in support of to the old cyclingnews.com letters of the week site...
If I ever did something that so clearly exposed stupidity as this then I certainly would not be telling people about it. You actually believed Landis did not dope??? LOL. I mean come on. I utterly lack sympathy for people who are this gullible. Darwin should still count for something in this day and age.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Squares said:
TFF, I sure as hell hope you were not calling me a Moron.

AS to the claim of blackmail, lets ask Greg Lemond about FLandis and his blackmail. What exactly is it when you threaten to expose that someone was sexually abused as a child if they testify against you at a doping trial?

That IS blackmail!!!

Apparently, even though I stated that my comment has nothing to do with Armstrong, your blinded hatred of Lance makes it so bad that you cannot use logic in your posts. Step back, cool off, and start seeing things for what they are.

Landis, whom I wrote letters in support of to the old cyclingnews.com letters of the week site, is scum and is no hero. None of his actions are heroic.

Get some perspective man.

And, once again, note that I did not asy anything positive or negative about Lance.
Okay, I concede the blackmail point. I assumed you were referring to him supposedly blackmailing The Uniballer.

As for the rest. I always like to see people come clean. I guess it is due to the fact that I have been clean and sober for over 19 years, and have seen many people come clean. That is all Floyd did. Everyone that now wants to bury him for it do so for their own reasons. Most of those people are fans of The Uniballer. Many fans of The Uniballer claim not to be so that their points might be taken more seriously.

I knew Floyd was lying almost from day 1 following his positive. I also believe very strongly that he is telling the truth as it confirms what many people have been saying for years about doping in general. The fact that he specifically names Armstrong only adds to the revelations. I have known for years that Armstrong is a doping fraud. All Landis did was provide more proof. Proof that makes it very difficult for fanboys to hide from reality any longer. Bravo Floyd!
 
Jan 19, 2010
214
0
0
BroDeal said:
If I ever did something that so clearly exposed stupidity as this then I certainly would not be telling people about it. You actually believed Landis did not dope???
Uh, no, I did not say that Landis did not dope. You, unfortunately, jump to conclusions without full knowledge of the facts. You also have no idea of who I am so you cannot connect me to any writing to suggest you know I said he did not dope.

As a trained scientist, I wrote letters that said that based on the evidence presented, it is impossible to conclude with statistical probability that the only possible way that his test results could be obtained was from addition of exogenous testosterone.

I happen to be supported by publications in the top scientific journal in the world, Nature (Nature 454, 692-693).

The evidence that convicted him would not hold up in a US Court of law to convict someone of a crime.

So, go ahead and make statements that attack me, but realize that you jump to conclusions and make statements that are asinine and based on nothing but your desire to bully anyone who disagrees with you.

Come on present facts, stop the ad hominem attacks and deal in facts and reality.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
Squares said:
Uh, no, I did not say that Landis did not dope. You, unfortunately, jump to conclusions without full knowledge of the facts. You also have no idea of who I am so you cannot connect me to any writing to suggest you know I said he did not dope.

As a trained scientist, I wrote letters that said that based on the evidence presented, it is impossible to conclude with statistical probability that the only possible way that his test results could be obtained was from addition of exogenous testosterone.

I happen to be supported by publications in the top scientific journal in the world, Nature (Nature 454, 692-693).

The evidence that convicted him would not hold up in a US Court of law to convict someone of a crime.

So, go ahead and make statements that attack me, but realize that you jump to conclusions and make statements that are asinine and based on nothing but your desire to bully anyone who disagrees with you.

Come on present facts, stop the ad hominem attacks and deal in facts and reality.
Just becuase you have a grow lamp in your closet does not make you a "Trained Scientist"

The evidence did hold up in a US court of law, AAA is American. The IRMS showed 5 positives throughout the Tour. The smoke screen may have confused a few people but it was clear from the start that Landis was guilty.

I would suggest a review of the CAS decision as it clears up much of the misinformation the Landis team invented.
 
Jan 19, 2010
214
0
0
Thoughtforfood said:
As for the rest. I always like to see people come clean. I guess it is due to the fact that I have been clean and sober for over 19 years, !
Congratulations, that is a great achievement.


Thoughtforfood said:
Okay, I concede the blackmail point. I assumed you were referring to him supposedly blackmailing The Uniballer.
Thanks, and to reiterate, my original post was not referencing anything about LA or about me being a "Fanboy".

I was simply making the point that I think people get a bit too wrapped up in things and lose perspective. I am a fan of cycling but I don't get too wrapped up into thinking that LA, FL, TH, MC, AC, AV or any of the rest are who I would like my kids to look up to as a hero. They are simply performers in a sport I enjoy.
 
Jan 19, 2010
214
0
0
Race Radio said:
Just becuase you have a grow lamp in your closet does not make you a "Trained Scientist"

The evidence did hold up in a US court of law, AAA is American. The IRMS showed 5 positives throughout the Tour. The smoke screen may have confused a few people but it was clear from the start that Landis was guilty.

I would suggest a review of the CAS decision as it clears up much of the misinformation the Landis team invented.
Nice, you again show the lack of civility and bullying tactics.

What do you know about my scientific training? So, please let me know how you dispute the Nature article...

I did read the CAS decision.

Also, when I get my next speeding ticket, can I have my trial at the AAA? After all, you suggest it is an American court.

The AAA is the American Arbitration Associatioin. They are NOT a COURT of LAW. Their rules are different. They simply have to have a majority of arbiters find for one side or the other.

Go back and reread your civics lessons, the US Criminal Court system requires "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" and in a jury trial requires a unanimous decision.

Once again, stop using name calling, ad hominem attacks, and start dealing in facts people!!!
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
Squares said:
Nice, you again show the lack of civility and bullying tactics.

What do you know about my scientific training? So, please let me know how you dispute the Nature article...

I did read the CAS decision.

Also, when I get my next speeding ticket, can I have my trial at the AAA? After all, you suggest it is an American court.

The AAA is the American Arbitration Associatioin. They are NOT a COURT of LAW. Their rules are different. They simply have to have a majority of arbiters find for one side or the other.

Go back and reread your civics lessons, the US Criminal Court system requires "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" and in a jury trial requires a unanimous decision.

Once again, stop using name calling, ad hominem attacks, and start dealing in facts people!!!
Please tell us how your scientific training makes you an expert in a court of law? You seem confident that Landis would have been proven innocent in a court, when that is far from the case. The evidence was overwhelming and in a court of law additional ancillary evidence would have been brought in. AAA is used in thousands of business disputes annually. In business contracts it is common to have AAA as the sole method of adjudication as it is seen to be not only less expensive, faster, but also fairer then a jury trial which is in effect judged by amateurs.

I have not called you any names, but I have tried to diminish your claims of expertise because even with all of your education you were unable to see through the landis smokescreen.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Squares said:
Thanks, and to reiterate, my original post was not referencing anything about LA or about me being a "Fanboy".

I was simply making the point that I think people get a bit too wrapped up in things and lose perspective. I am a fan of cycling but I don't get too wrapped up into thinking that LA, FL, TH, MC, AC, AV or any of the rest are who I would like my kids to look up to as a hero. They are simply performers in a sport I enjoy.
Very reasonable points. I admit that I do not think FL should be treated as a hero. I do believe his revelations are a form of repentance, and as such do cause me to look on him favorably. I feel about it like I feel about my past, its great and all that I did a lot of drugs and quit, but most of the people in the world don't do what I did in the first place, so I don't really deserve a gold star. It does however flavor my attitudes towards people I see that I truly believe are opening their dark secrets to the light of day. Its the only way people who do depraved things ever get better. I believe that is what Floyd is doing. Time will tell though.
 
Jan 19, 2010
214
0
0
Race Radio said:
You seem confident that Landis would have been proven innocent in a court, when that is far from the case..
I didn't say he would have been proven innocent in a court of law. US Courts require proof beyond reasonable doubt, and that is where the problem is. Remember the famous "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit" well, look into the statistical analysis in the Nature paper I cited. They showed that the IRMS data did not show that every metabolite tested was statistically different. Therefore, to conclude that he is guilty on the basis of the metabolites that did show a statistical difference require that you dismiss those that did not show a difference.

This is the biggest problem with most of the doping controls, the methods are not held to the highest scientific rigor, like the FDA would require. For example, the test that busted Hamilton, was published in a low level journal and made the claim that there was no chance of a false positive result based on testing of less than 50 samples. That is factually and statistically impossible. The FDA requires a test to be validated with over a thousand samples prior to being used as a clinical diagnostic.

Race Radio said:
In business contracts it is common to have AAA as the sole method of adjudication as it is seen to be not only less expensive, faster, but also fairer then a jury trial which is in effect judged by amateurs.
Yes, but I never said he wouldn't be found guilty in an arbitration hearing, I said court of law.

Race Radio said:
I have not called you any names, but I have tried to diminish your claims of expertise because even with all of your education you were unable to see through the landis smokescreen.
I saw Landis for what he is/was. You diminsh what you did not know. My previous comments about Landis were based on the quality of the science, not whether he was innocent or guilty.

Remember, it was my original post that said he is no hero.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
Squares said:
look into the statistical analysis in the Nature paper I cited. They showed that the IRMS data did not show that every metabolite tested was statistically different. Therefore, to conclude that he is guilty on the basis of the metabolites that did show a statistical difference require that you dismiss those that did not show a difference.
Since you seem to appreciate expertise then you will be happy to know that The Nature article you cite has been roundly criticized by real experts in testing. I am sure you will agree with me if I side with the guys who have made their life's work the science of dope testing, not cancer researchers like Berry.

his apparently limited knowledge of the underlying science of steroid testing and metabolism led him to erroneous conclusions. Conditional probability is well recognized by the antidoping community. For synthetic anabolic steroids, Berry’s statements regarding the potential for naturally occurring metabolites is simply not true. Berry seems also to fail to appreciate that the use of confirmation tests and the detection of multiple metabolites greatly increases the likelihood ratio that the test results are associated with use of prohibited substances.
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/55/8/1456?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&author1=BOWERS&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&fdate=//&resourcetype=HWCIT

He was not the only one who criticized the incorrect conclusions of Berry. Pierre-Edouard Sottas, Christophe Saudan, Martial Saugy of the Swiss Laboratory for Doping Analyses, wrote

These claims neglect an abundant body of literature and ignore the paradigm shift that has taken place in anti-doping science
and
In multiplying the probabilities to estimate the specificity for the Landis case, Berry makes a basic statistical error.
 
Oct 6, 2009
5,273
2
0
The live streaming has started - picture quality is not that good.

Flandis was called up prior to the start, received a mix of applause and boos from what the audio on live stream could pick up. The commentators mentioned that Flandis didn't show up until about an hour before the race started, and people were wondering if he would show or not.

The commentators are also big Lance fans, talking up LA and Levi, and mentioning how LA gave Floyd "a helping hand" when he needed a team, etc.

Neil Browne tweeted:
Call ups for racers. Just called up Floyd Landis in Arrogant Bast*rd jersey. Race about to start - #NevadaCityClassic
Hoping for a picture at some point of this.
 
Oct 6, 2009
5,273
2
0
Breakaway group of 5/6 riders, including Flandis, Paul Mach. Possibly Burke Swindlehurst? Video quality is not good, and the announcers are too busy chatting about crap and not calling the actual race.
 
Beech Mtn said:
Breakaway group of 5/6 riders, including Flandis, Paul Mach. Possibly Burke Swindlehurst? Video quality is not good, and the announcers are too busy chatting about crap and not calling the actual race.
Yeah, they are making me wish this was in Japanese or some other language I don't understand.
 
Oct 6, 2009
5,273
2
0
Publicus said:
Yeah, they are making me wish this was in Japanese or some other language I don't understand.
But you have to admit, the commercials are quite impressive. HN's Mint, or whatever the name of the place is, looks like an exceptionally impressive operation. :p
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
can we have a link to the feed or is it secret?

edit: found it back on p2 or 3 or wherever i found it

good god.. has tv just gone back twenty years.. whats with the cheap onscreen advertising for the beach hut delli..?
 
TeamSkyFans said:
can we have a link to the feed or is it secret?

edit: found it back on p2 or 3 or wherever i found it

good god.. has tv just gone back twenty years.. whats with the cheap onscreen advertising for the beach hut delli..?
Admit it, you want a sandwich now, don't you? Yeah, it's a bit dated in the form of coverage, but I appreciate it nonetheless. If I'm every in Grass Valley, I'm definitely building a sandwich at the Beach Hut Deli.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
is all american tv like this, or just little channels.. :D

THis is like retro tv, its great.. Loving it.. All we need now is a Flandis win..

one question..
"50th Annual Nevada City Biciycle Classic"

Is bicyle really spelt like that over there?
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY