Floyd says...you've got to legalise doping

[Cobblestoned]

What happened to Floyd ?
Unbelievable. He should think about it and himself during a long vacation. He needs a break.

What do the Floydlovers think about that now ?


"You got to go about it another way and you've got to legalise doping. They [the testers] are so far behind in the testing organisations that there's no way to change it now. Just accept that it's here, that it's not going away and that it's just going to get more complicated and the fact that it's not that complicated yet compared to what it will be. Ten years from now it's going to be four times as hard as it now to test for things."

Landis expressed a pessimistic view of efforts to clean up the sport, saying, "They're not even remotely close to catching anybody; it's just a joke. You can use as much EPO as you want and unless you're an idiot you're not going to get caught.

"Just start over and let it be. I'm convinced now that there's no stopping it and you've got to stop ruining lives over it. The bad guys will always have guns and the bad guys will always use drugs and that will force the good guys to do the same.

"Since you can't stop it you have to deal with it in rational kind of way. You can't stop it and you cant fix it. Monitor it and make sure people don't hurt themselves, but you have to accept it."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/floyd-landis-calls-for-legalised-doping

 

[Wolves-Lower]

Its obvious that Floyd is still doping.
Hold that hit Floyd!

 

[roundabout]

Floyd = idiot.

 

[kurtinsc]

What happened to Floyd ?
Unbelievable. He should think about it and himself during a long vacation. He needs a break.

What do the Floydlovers think about that now ?


"You got to go about it another way and you've got to legalise doping. They [the testers] are so far behind in the testing organisations that there's no way to change it now. Just accept that it's here, that it's not going away and that it's just going to get more complicated and the fact that it's not that complicated yet compared to what it will be. Ten years from now it's going to be four times as hard as it now to test for things."

Landis expressed a pessimistic view of efforts to clean up the sport, saying, "They're not even remotely close to catching anybody; it's just a joke. You can use as much EPO as you want and unless you're an idiot you're not going to get caught.

"Just start over and let it be. I'm convinced now that there's no stopping it and you've got to stop ruining lives over it. The bad guys will always have guns and the bad guys will always use drugs and that will force the good guys to do the same.

"Since you can't stop it you have to deal with it in rational kind of way. You can't stop it and you cant fix it. Monitor it and make sure people don't hurt themselves, but you have to accept it."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/floyd-landis-calls-for-legalised-doping

Sometimes, I tend to agree with him.

Perhaps just hold people to a certain range in blood scores... and as long as they are within the range who cares how they get there. If they're over, they're disqualified.

It would be an admission of failure on the doping front... but would eliminate a lot of the bad press and as long as the levels were set properly you'd think it could be fairly safe.

It would be more like Nascar... but instead of pushing the cars to the edge of the rules you'd be pushing the riders to the edge... but if you cross the line you're disqualified.

 

[BotanyBay]

Floyd has always had a very skewed set of ethics. He's made some poor choices in life. He's hit the ground at terminal velocity a few times, but alas, he is determined to feel the thrill of that free-fall again and again. Perhaps at some point, he'll say "I've had enough" and get himself some humility.

 

[Michael Brown]

Landis wants to legalize doping?

"there are guns and the bad guys have them and trying to keep others from having them isn't going to accomplish anything"

"Just start over and let it be. I'm convinced now that there's no stopping it and you've got to stop ruining lives over it. The bad guys will always have guns and the bad guys will always use drugs and that will force the good guys to do the same."

"Since you can't stop it you have to deal with it in rational kind of way. You can't stop it and you can't fix it. Monitor it and make sure people don't hurt themselves, but you have to accept it."

Ya know, Floyd, just because bad guys have guns, it does not mean that I need to get one to live my life.

What he is proposing means that all fans, organizations, and participants will not only have to turn their back on ethics in sport, but actually *embrace* drug use.

I TRULY hope that the sport gets cleaned up because of what Landis started, but he is one strange guy. A real mixed bag. Personally, I think he's a little "no tv and no beer make Homer something something..."

 

[euanli]

nuts.

also looks like d benson was playing wiggins off against landis. pretty ****ty.

 

[hrotha]

This isn't surprising. At no point has he ever said doping was wrong from a moral point of view, so what he says about bad guys using guns is kind of moot.

He might be right about tests as the main anti-doping tool, but a different approach that relied more on anti-drug trafficking police actions might bring better results even if in 10 years some new kind of super dope has been introduced.

 

[Berzin]

I don't understand the mock outrage. Floyd has said in interviews that he wasn't sorry about doping. He is, like many others, a person who feels given the efforts made to combat doping nothing can be done.

One cannot judge his statements as absolutes in a best-case scenario. How would one go about stopping the rampant corruption within the governing bodies and labs? If there was no corruption within these institutions, I would argue that Landis is ethically incorrect. But look at the crap the SI article uncovered-how is one supposed to combat doping under those circumstances?

It's ridiculous.

 

[the student]

So according to him we should put ourself full of any PEDS and junk we can find...

So anyone who wants to have a chance to win has to dope... its just madness. Come on i dont want to put my body full of junk to go just that last bit faster. How do you explain this to kids who want to have a go at racing... there will be junior cat racers full of dope and their parents paying for it....

its just madness

 

[rolfrae]

It must surely be frustration talking. I think Floyd thought that his revelations would explode the sport, force the UCI to take proper steps to clean up cycling, force a real sea change in opinion amongst riders and teams. Instead he has been dismissed by the UCI, dismissed by a host of current riders including Wiggins. Thankfully the FDA haven't dismissed his revelations. With **** Pat in charge at the UCI doping has been effectively legalised anyway, at least for certain favoured riders and teams.

 

[onefastgear]

Cobblestoned,

Floyd is entitled to his opinion, with which I disagree. The pros and cons of legal doping have been discussed before. Doping should never be tolerated.

The subtext to your post is whether his position on doping makes him less credible with respect to his accusations against Lance. I don't think his position on doping now makes him any more or less a liar. People have already made their mind up about that.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

Isn't this great? This person lies to the innocent believers to take their money to cover up his doping. Then he comes clean to 'clear his conscience' coincidentally when Lance would not succumb to his blackmail to ride for Shack. Now he says to legalise dope so all the hard workers who want to be clean will have to take dope.

Wiggins says this guy drinks alot and we know he was drunk with his goofy friend when he called Greg Lemond. Maybe he should blow into a breath test before he is interviewed.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What happened to Floyd ?
Unbelievable. He should think about it and himself during a long vacation. He needs a break.

What do the Floydlovers think about that now ?


"You got to go about it another way and you've got to legalise doping. They [the testers] are so far behind in the testing organisations that there's no way to change it now. Just accept that it's here, that it's not going away and that it's just going to get more complicated and the fact that it's not that complicated yet compared to what it will be. Ten years from now it's going to be four times as hard as it now to test for things."

Landis expressed a pessimistic view of efforts to clean up the sport, saying, "They're not even remotely close to catching anybody; it's just a joke. You can use as much EPO as you want and unless you're an idiot you're not going to get caught.

"Just start over and let it be. I'm convinced now that there's no stopping it and you've got to stop ruining lives over it. The bad guys will always have guns and the bad guys will always use drugs and that will force the good guys to do the same.

"Since you can't stop it you have to deal with it in rational kind of way. You can't stop it and you cant fix it. Monitor it and make sure people don't hurt themselves, but you have to accept it."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/floyd-landis-calls-for-legalised-doping

....and the highlighted is where his arguement fall's down.

If - as he admits you can circumvent the tests then they will circumvent any 'monitoring' too.

While he has a point that testing is a few steps behind the dopers the reality is we have never seen a proper effort in anti-doping -so it's a moot point.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Sometimes, I tend to agree with him.

Perhaps just hold people to a certain range in blood scores... and as long as they are within the range who cares how they get there. If they're over, they're disqualified.

It would be an admission of failure on the doping front... but would eliminate a lot of the bad press and as long as the levels were set properly you'd think it could be fairly safe.

It would be more like Nascar... but instead of pushing the cars to the edge of the rules you'd be pushing the riders to the edge... but if you cross the line you're disqualified.

Of course Floyd is right in many points.
But it is a taboo to say something like that. Especially for him now that he is a saint.
I won't start with thefts and people crossing red lights now. We all know that legalisation of a "crime" is not accepted, only because there are so many of them.

Amnesty would perhaps have been a way to sort things out. But that wasn't pushed forward enough in 2006.
We discussed that to death in Germany and some even formed petitions and offered anonym outings.
If people don't trust each other that doesn't work.

 

[Michael Brown]

We can easily see how corrupt and messed up everything is. I'd agree that current methods are inadequate. But you don't just throw your hands in the air and give up on the pursuit of fair play.

Testing isn't the only way to combat this. You can't fight a war on drugs simply by arresting people who use. You have to go after the suppliers, producers, etc. This is even bigger than Lance used EPO. I hope they don't simply stop with him.

 

[SC1990]

Any dregs or respect I had remaing for him are now extinguished. All that about clearing his conscience, and now drugs should be legalised so that it makes it easier to be guilt free? The 'why bother' attitude is also worrying: we all want a clean sport, not just who has the best physician.

 

[131313]

What happened to Floyd ?
Unbelievable. He should think about it and himself during a long vacation. He needs a break.

What do the Floydlovers think about that now ?

It seems you're mischaracterizing a lot of people's attitude towards Flandis because it suits your agenda. I don't really see a ton of "Floyd lovers", I see a lot of people who respect the fact that he finally came clean.

When he came clean, he really didn't do so in a way that was trying to garner sympathy, IMO. He made it clear that he didn't feel he was cheating; he said he felt badly about the lying, but not the doping.

I disagree with him regarding legalizing doping, but that doesn't mean he isn't entitled to his opinion on the subject, and given his own experience I can understand his perspective.

That said, I think it's short-sighted and overlooks a very basic fact: you can't legalize cheating, by definition--and doping is an attempt to cheat. If you legalize doping, do you really think that people will just dope within the allowed parameters? Sure, some will, but what about those pathologically set on gaining an advantage over the competition? The cheating alleged by Flandis is much greater than simple doping, it's about completely gaming the system; bribing officials, covering up positive tests, acquiring experimental drugs on the black market. Do you really think people engaged in that sort of behavior will be OK with a truly "level playing field"? I don't.

The only real effect from legalizing doping will make the illicit use even more dangerous than it is already, and institute a baseline level of risk all riders would have to assume (over and above the risk of racing a bicycle).

Floyd is a simple guy, and because he's pretty healthy now he probably doesn't really have true respect for the long-term consequences of the use of the drugs which he took. He may feel differently if he truly knew the potential damage. Hopefully, he won't find out first-hand. I'm sure others won't be so lucky.

All that said, I think his position is born from a sense of hopelessness over the situation of doping in cycling, and that's something to which I can certainly relate. So in that sense I understand his position, even if I disagree with it.

 

[hrotha]

Of course Floyd is right in many points.
But it is a taboo to say something like that. Especially for him now that he is a saint.
I won't start with thefts and people crossing red lights now. We all know that legalisation of a "crime" is not accepted, only because there are so many of them.

Amnesty would perhaps have been a way to sort things out. But that wasn't pushed forward enough in 2006.
We discussed that to death in Germany and some even formed petitions and offered anonym outings.
If people don't trust each other that doesn't work.

Are you even reading this thread? Sorry that it didn't live up to your expectations, as it turns out most of us (and certainly the posters you wanted to rile up) disagree with Landis and haven't put him on a pedestal.

It's not black or white, you know. You don't need to pick sides and stand by whatever that side comes up with - although I understand that's the only way to remain an Armstrong fan these days.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Isn't this great? This person lies to the innocent believers to take their money to cover up his doping. Then he comes clean to 'clear his conscience' coincidentally when Lance would not succumb to his blackmail to ride for Shack. Now he says to legalise dope so all the hard workers who want to be clean will have to take dope.

Wiggins says this guy drinks alot and we know he was drunk with his goofy friend when he called Greg Lemond. Maybe he should blow into a breath test before he is interviewed.

 

[MR_Sarcastic]

The man is beyond nuts........way beyond.

 

[cineteq]

Sure let's legalize drugs everywhere in cycling.
This guy is a genius!
Why didn't anybody think about that before?

 

[SC1990]

Imagine the press: 'Cycling gives up drugs fight, says meh, why bother.'

Half the joy of cycling is the fact you can relate to the athletes and compare yourself: you can never play football at the Nou Camp etc, but you can time yourself up the Alpe d'Huez etc. Why do you think Armstrong had/has such popularity? He came back from an awful physical condition to the pinnacle (please dont get all 'but waaah he cheated waaah' on me, I'm using him simply to illustrate the point). Knowing that everyone is just a doped up robot removes any connection and just makes the whole thing bland.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Are you even reading this thread? Sorry that it didn't live up to your expectations, as it turns out most of us (and certainly the posters you wanted to rile up) disagree with Landis and haven't put him on a pedestal.

It's not black or white, you know. You don't need to pick sides and stand by whatever that side comes up with - although I understand that's the only way to remain an Armstrong fan these days.

Don't panic and take yourself to important.

 

[Polish]

I predict that 50 years from now "doping" as we call it today WILL be legal.
And Sports Medicine will be an important and useful part of the Medical field.

(Also predict that Floyd will have his rightful 2006 TDF Victory returned)

Anyway, here is an argument FOR legal doping and a clinic thread from way back:

http://www.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/Media/telegraph_dopingtourdefranceJuly07.pdf

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=4690