Floyd to be charged with fraud

[thehog]

"I can't get into the substance of the investigation, but I am sure you can understand that I would prefer to not be under investigation," he said in an email. "However, when I was living the lie of denying doping in cycling, it was an ordeal for me as well. Coming clean with the truth has been a stressful process, but I knew that would be the case when I decided to expose the truth about me and cycling.

"I am optimistic that when the prosecutors understand me and the whole situation, they are going to do the right thing."

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency is continuing to explore the possibility of bringing a case against Armstrong, and government investigators are also gathering information to help decide whether to intervene in a civil "whistleblower" suit filed in 2010 with the intention of recouping Postal Service sponsorship funds. Sources have confirmed that Landis is the plaintiff in that case, although he has declined all comment on the subject.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling...s-fund-being-investigated-federal-authorities

 

[MarkvW]

"I can't get into the substance of the investigation, but I am sure you can understand that I would prefer to not be under investigation," he said in an email. "However, when I was living the lie of denying doping in cycling, it was an ordeal for me as well. Coming clean with the truth has been a stressful process, but I knew that would be the case when I decided to expose the truth about me and cycling.

"I am optimistic that when the prosecutors understand me and the whole situation, they are going to do the right thing."

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency is continuing to explore the possibility of bringing a case against Armstrong, and government investigators are also gathering information to help decide whether to intervene in a civil "whistleblower" suit filed in 2010 with the intention of recouping Postal Service sponsorship funds. Sources have confirmed that Landis is the plaintiff in that case, although he has declined all comment on the subject.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling...s-fund-being-investigated-federal-authorities

Thanks Hog. Lots of good stuff in there.

Floyd's investigation has been going on for at least 12 months! It is parallel to the Postie/Ball investigations. It may always have been separate.

Floyd confirmed the fact of investigation (and explicitly the target letter).

The article confirms that FFF closed up its books near five years ago. That means that the SOL is ticking and that anything that happens ought to happen soon.

 

[Elagabalus]

... All you have to do is look at the scoreboard on where somebody falls in relation to LA's good graces and you can easily predict what their spineless position will be ...

Disagree. As pointed out earlier, most posters in this thread agree that this investigation/story has some very odd elements to it which in turn has led to some very nice discussions as to why that might be.

Incidentally, is there a "spined" position which you prefer?

 

[Digger]

It certainly does look like there is an investigation! And a target letter! I'll bet that the feds have a fairly good catalog of all the statements (many of them lies) that Floyd made to induce people to give him money. And then they have Floyd's own statements about his remorse for taking money from people who trusted him. If Floyd is indicted, he's going to be facing a really uphill fight.

Floyd needed a charity fund to defend against WADA. Isn't it reasonable to think that poor Floyd is going to need another charity fund to help him fight against the United States of America if he wants to defend himself and go to trial (rather than plead guilty). Unfortunately for Floyd, I don't think many of the donors from FFF #1 would be willing to donate to FFF #2. Maybe it's time for Floyd to release a new book: "Positively True." Unfortunately, if Floyd writes a true book it would be so self-incriminating it would defeat the whole purpose ...

I always figured Floyd was working with the feds. I read reports that he wore a wire for them in the Ball investigation, for example. I can't believe that the feds would have used Floyd unless Floyd came completely clean about everything. If Floyd was always truthful and honest with the feds, it is difficult to imagine that the feds would turn on him, unless the feds told Floyd straight-up from the beginning that they were not going to give him a walk on the FFF stuff. Or (as I thought on my ride to work), maybe Floyd just went full-*** and never cut any deal with the feds at all.

The tone of your posts over and over in relation to Floyd Landis really beg the question. Has he harmed you in some way personally? You seem to be obsessed with cutting him down in whatever way you can...the continuous description, in denigrating terms, of him being poor (apparently) being one example.

 

[MarkvW]

The tone of your posts over and over in relation to Floyd Landis really beg the question. Has he harmed you in some way personally? You seem to be obsessed with cutting him down in whatever way you can...the continuous description, in denigrating terms, of him being poor (apparently) being one example.

The poorness references are not my attempt to denigrate Floyd. Awhile back, I made the point that Floyd was poor and wasn't going to be able to hire defense counsel and mount a vigorous defense to federal charges--and that all that (and other stuff) indicated that there wasn't going to be any trial and that Floyd would plead if charged. Several people challenged me on that--apparently they think Floyd has enough money to support a vigorous defense of a federal felony charge. My poorness references relate to that. I think the chance of Floyd going to trial, if indicted, are extremely slim.

If I've denigrated Floyd in any other way, it's unavoidable. He's a liar and a cheat. But I don't want him to go to prison. Only probation and restitution. If the feds can make a felony stick, that man deserves it richly!

 

[Digger]

The poorness references are not my attempt to denigrate Floyd. Awhile back, I made the point that Floyd was poor and wasn't going to be able to hire defense counsel and mount a vigorous defense to federal charges--and that all that (and other stuff) indicated that there wasn't going to be any trial and that Floyd would plead if charged. Several people challenged me on that--apparently they think Floyd has enough money to support a vigorous defense of a federal felony charge. My poorness references relate to that. I think the chance of Floyd going to trial, if indicted, are extremely slim.

If I've denigrated Floyd in any other way, it's unavoidable. He's a liar and a cheat. But I don't want him to go to prison. Only probation and restitution. If the feds can make a felony stick, that man deserves it richly!

Look all I can say is that you make an awful lot of assumptions about Floyd. Not just today or yesterday.

Note: You say it's unavoidable to denigrate him. In contrast many people would praise his actions since coming clean. He without sin and all that...it's strange that whilst he didn't come clean to placate others, it's clear that in your mind, you give him no credit for this whatsoever. I would've thought that you would concede this much at least. That in coming clean and co-operating with USADA, the Feds and Ashenden, that he has done good.
I don't understand the logic here. There are many many cyclists out there who have never come clean, but one of the ones who did, can still do no right in some people's eyes. As he said himself, 'is one committed to a lie until their death'?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The poorness references are not my attempt to denigrate Floyd. Awhile back, I made the point that Floyd was poor and wasn't going to be able to hire defense counsel and mount a vigorous defense to federal charges--and that all that (and other stuff) indicated that there wasn't going to be any trial and that Floyd would plead if charged. Several people challenged me on that--apparently they think Floyd has enough money to support a vigorous defense of a federal felony charge. My poorness references relate to that. I think the chance of Floyd going to trial, if indicted, are extremely slim.

If I've denigrated Floyd in any other way, it's unavoidable. He's a liar and a cheat. But I don't want him to go to prison. Only probation and restitution. If the feds can make a felony stick, that man deserves it richly!

Hi Mark,
You say Floyd is a liar, which is present tense- can you point out what Floyd is currently lying about?

Also- the only poor thing is your poor comprehension.
You see, if Floyd did commit fraud, then he would have siphoned off lots of money and he would be rich and would be able to hire Fabiani etc and it all goes away.

But if he is poor, then it shows he did not use any of the money - and you still haven't come up with a potential charge for that.

 

[BotanyBay]

You too can own just a part of a shack up in the bone-dry metropolis of beautiful downtown Idyllwild CA. Just donate $1MM to the FFF and later claim fraud.

Floyd will even throw in a bag of rock-salt to de-ice the front steps during snow storms.

Leave it to the Germans to not understand dry humor

Susan, that wasn't actually Floyd Landis' house. It was a house in the same town. I was being humorous.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Hi Mark,
You say Floyd is a liar, which is present tense- can you point out what Floyd is currently lying about?

Also- the only poor thing is your poor comprehension.
You see, if Floyd did commit fraud, then he would have siphoned off lots of money and he would be rich and would be able to hire Fabiani etc and it all goes away.

But if he is poor, then it shows he did not use any of the money - and you still haven't come up with a potential charge for that.

yes, this. AND the fact that he had no ability to write a check for withdrawal from the fund.
quote from article:
"Landis did not have check-writing authority on the fund. "

 

[Polish]

Leave it to the Germans to not understand dry humor

Susan, that wasn't actually Floyd Landis' house. It was a house in the same town. I was being humorous.

Posting a picture of one of Floyd's neighbors is not cool either. And it wasn't that humorous btw. Tough crowd in here.

 

[BotanyBay]

But if he is poor, then it shows he did not use any of the money - and you still haven't come up with a potential charge for that.

I have known many people who have earned far more than I have, stuck far more in the bank than I have, spent far more than I have ever spent, handled far more "tonnage" in terms of transactional goods than I have ever handled, and yet, here I am, wealthier than they are.

From what I saw, Floyd won the TDF and then attended the "Matt Decanio Institute of Wealth Management"

 

[BotanyBay]

Posting a picture of one of Floyd's neighbors is not cool either. And it wasn't that humorous btw. Tough crowd in here.

It was a picture of one half of someone's house. Who knows who or exactly where?

RIP, Sid Ceasar.

 

[Polish]

It was a picture of one half of someone's house. Who knows who or exactly where?

RIP, Sid Ceasar.

Maybe some Floyd stalker could find it. Disgruntled donator grrrrr. Won't Floyd's neighbor be suprised.

Look, admit it is uncool to post pictures of someone or someone's neighbors house instead of whining about mods not being humourfull. Sid Ceasar would not have whined you know. Of course, he would have been hilarious too.

 

[MarkvW]

Look all I can say is that you make an awful lot of assumptions about Floyd. Not just today or yesterday.

Note: You say it's unavoidable to denigrate him. In contrast many people would praise his actions since coming clean. He without sin and all that...it's strange that whilst he didn't come clean to placate others, it's clear that in your mind, you give him no credit for this whatsoever. I would've thought that you would concede this much at least. That in coming clean and co-operating with USADA, the Feds and Ashenden, that he has done good.
I don't understand the logic here. There are many many cyclists out there who have never come clean, but one of the ones who did, can still do no right in some people's eyes. As he said himself, 'is one committed to a lie until their death'?

I have mixed feelings about Floyd's coming clean. If it wasn't all wrapped up with the qui tam lawsuit, I would be forced to agree with you. But Floyd's revelations are tightly bound up with his attempts to get money from Lance. I don't see any nobility there. Certainly not enough to justify Floyd's walking on a perfectly good felony (if there is enough evidence).

I hope the feds take the qui tam and recover all that ill-gotten Tailwind booty. If Floyd gets a pile of cash out of it, good for him--and good for all the FFF victims who might get some kind of court-ordered restitution from a newly-cash flush Floyd. If a little money is left over for Floyd after his victims are repaid, then I'm happy for the guy and reparations have been made!

It has been two years since Floyd came clean and almost five since the last FFF ripoff. Floyd might just be all talk when it comes to payback. Probation and restitution will force Floyd to actively work to repay his victims! That's what I'm talking about! That's rehabilitation!

 

[MarkvW]

Hi Mark,
You say Floyd is a liar, which is present tense- can you point out what Floyd is currently lying about?

Also- the only poor thing is your poor comprehension.
You see, if Floyd did commit fraud, then he would have siphoned off lots of money and he would be rich and would be able to hire Fabiani etc and it all goes away.

But if he is poor, then it shows he did not use any of the money - and you still haven't come up with a potential charge for that.

Hey, I get it. You believe Floyd is not poor and that Floyd is honest. An honest--not poor--Floyd would of course be repaying his victims as he promised to do.

So what is it? Is Floyd not honest? Not poor? Both?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Hey, I get it. You believe Floyd is not poor and that Floyd is honest. An honest--not poor--Floyd would of course be repaying his victims as he promised to do.

So what is it? Is Floyd not honest? Not poor? Both?

Hi Mark,
No, I'm afraid you don't get it. I asked you a question which you ignored, what in your view is Floyd lying about.

As for your questions, I gave the 2 scenarios available. I believe Floyd to be honest now and there is nothing to suggest he has commited a fraud so I do not expect anything to come of this case.

 

[MarkvW]

Hi Mark,
No, I'm afraid you don't get it. I asked you a question which you ignored, what in your view is Floyd lying about.

As for your questions, I gave the 2 scenarios available. I believe Floyd to be honest now and there is nothing to suggest he has commited a fraud so I do not expect anything to come of this case.

You have already answered your own question (and defined your own terms). You don't need any answer from me. You're trying to draw me into the Maserati Vortex.

The target letter implies that the feds at least suspect fraud. I'll stack the Fed's credibility against yours. I like their credibility.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You have already answered your own question (and defined your own terms). You don't need any answer from me. You're trying to draw me into the Maserati Vortex.

No Mark,
You defined the terms when you wrote that Floyd is a liar, I asked what is he currently lying about.

The target letter implies that the feds at least suspect fraud. I'll stack the Fed's credibility against yours. I like their credibility.

Perhaps, but no-one (especially you) has been able to show where there could be a fraud
If money was misappropraited then as Floyd was not one of the money men then any fraud would be on others.

 

[MarkvW]

No Mark,
You defined the terms when you wrote that Floyd is a liar, I asked what is he currently lying about.


Perhaps, but no-one (especially you) has been able to show where there could be a fraud
If money was misappropraited then as Floyd was not one of the money men then any fraud would be on others.

In the Vortex, someone who is not currently lying cannot be a liar.
In the Vortex, only a "money man" who misappropriates property can commit fraud.

I don't want to enter the Vortex.

 

[MarkvW]

It was a picture of one half of someone's house. Who knows who or exactly where?

RIP, Sid Ceasar.

It was funny, and right on point.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

In the Vortex, someone who is not currently lying cannot be a liar.
In the Vortex, only a "money man" who misappropriates property can commit fraud.

I don't want to enter the Vortex.

Mark, you are in a vortex constantly, you cannot remember which way is out, that's why I am trying to help you out.
You brought up that Floyd is lying, you can retract it, or back it up. Then you will no longer need to keep spinning.

 

[patricknd]

In the Vortex, someone who is not currently lying cannot be a liar.
In the Vortex, only a "money man" who misappropriates property can commit fraud.

I don't want to enter the Vortex.

i'm confused. how many vortices are we dealing with here?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

i'm confused. how many vortices are we dealing with here?

A lot - Marks moral compass is spinning constantly and so are his posts on law, you would think they would cancel one another out, but they are turning in the same direction. It's an F5.

 

[thehog]

Hi Mark,
No, I'm afraid you don't get it. I asked you a question which you ignored, what in your view is Floyd lying about.

As for your questions, I gave the 2 scenarios available. I believe Floyd to be honest now and there is nothing to suggest he has commited a fraud so I do not expect anything to come of this case.

Rather than getting too caught up in the contexts of lying. I like to concentrate on the truth for a moment.

I only know one guy in the face of adversity who was strong enough and against tremendous opposition who told the truth. That was Floyd. It was also the catalyst for Tyler to then tell the truth.

Although this is not a Lance thread he's still having a hard time confessing or even admitting to his drug use. He just pretends it never happened. I guess you could call him weak and hardly the inspiration he professes himself to be.

I prefer the truth especially when its served with a good dose of humility. Our world needs a little more of it and a littles less marketing.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Rather than getting too caught up in the contexts of lying. I like to concentrate on the truth for a moment.

I only know one guy in the face of adversity who was strong enough and against tremendous opposition who told the truth. That was Floyd. It was also the catalyst for Tyler to then tell the truth.

Although this is not a Lance thread he's still having a hard time confessing or even admitting to his drug use. He just pretends it never happened. I guess you could call him weak and hardly the inspiration he professes himself to be.

I prefer the truth especially when its served with a good dose of humility. Our world needs a little more of it and a littles less marketing.

I would say Floyd is way more of a man than wonderboy.
Hands down

brave
Does not hide behind smoke and mirrors and the favors of everyone.