Floyd to be charged with fraud

[MarkvW]

I would say Floyd is way more of a man than wonderboy.
Hands down

brave
Does not hide behind smoke and mirrors and the favors of everyone.

I agree that Floyd is way more of a man than Lance, but that's not saying much.

 

[mewmewmew13]

i'm confused. how many vortices are we dealing with here?

LOL
good one

 

[MarkvW]

i'm confused. how many vortices are we dealing with here?

There is only one. And there is no escape. Even after links. And links. And links . . .

 

[mewmewmew13]

It's the same vortex that gets clogged

 

[eleven]

Retry Clemens and investigate Landis. More fine application of DoJ resources.

Bejeebers this is stupid.

 

[Digger]

I have mixed feelings about Floyd's coming clean. If it wasn't all wrapped up with the qui tam lawsuit, I would be forced to agree with you. But Floyd's revelations are tightly bound up with his attempts to get money from Lance. I don't see any nobility there. Certainly not enough to justify Floyd's walking on a perfectly good felony (if there is enough evidence).

I hope the feds take the qui tam and recover all that ill-gotten Tailwind booty. If Floyd gets a pile of cash out of it, good for him--and good for all the FFF victims who might get some kind of court-ordered restitution from a newly-cash flush Floyd. If a little money is left over for Floyd after his victims are repaid, then I'm happy for the guy and reparations have been made!

It has been two years since Floyd came clean and almost five since the last FFF ripoff. Floyd might just be all talk when it comes to payback. Probation and restitution will force Floyd to actively work to repay his victims! That's what I'm talking about! That's rehabilitation!

Yet more assumptions on your part. Why go to USADA and Ashenden first if the Qui Tam case was his goal....

 

[Digger]

In the Vortex, someone who is not currently lying cannot be a liar.
In the Vortex, only a "money man" who misappropriates property can commit fraud.

I don't want to enter the Vortex.

Well you called him a liar....so if a person tells a lie at one stage in their life, but then comes clean, they are still liars until they die. Jesus that's a high moral ground you stand on...well done you.

 

[ChrisE]

Well you called him a liar....so if a person tells a lie at one stage in their life, but then comes clean, they are still liars until they die. Jesus that's a high moral ground you stand on...well done you.

Ahh, it's the "if you come clean you are no longer X" card.

So, if somebody rapes somebody and they come clean about it, they are no longer a rapist? What about a murderer that turns himself in?

Then of course this weds nicely with the opinion of some and apparently Ashendon that this investigation will deter future PED whistleblowers. Now we want to insulate dopers (oops, I mean people. They are no longer dopers if they confess to doping ) from any future accountability to any law enforcement entity if they tell what they know about doping in a bike race.

FL should just go rob a bank and pay back all the FFF clowns. If he gets indicted for robbing the bank then that would deter future fraudsters from doing right to pay back the defrauded. We can't have that. I suggest the 139 outraged patriots redirect their ire from the LA investigation and write their congresspeople to complain about this injustice catch 22.

 

[ChrisE]

In the Vortex, someone who is not currently lying cannot be a liar.
In the Vortex, only a "money man" who misappropriates property can commit fraud.

I don't want to enter the Vortex.

Yeah, just say no to the vortex.

Actually, these petty little arguments doc is floating out are even more petty than his past pettiness. For some reason to me he does not seem to be himself. I wonder why?

 

[ChrisE]

Hi Mark,
No, I'm afraid you don't get it. I asked you a question which you ignored, what in your view is Floyd lying about.

As for your questions, I gave the 2 scenarios available. I believe Floyd to be honest now and there is nothing to suggest he has commited a fraud so I do not expect anything to come of this case.

He probably thinks he is lying about not taking test, as opposed to just about every other typical PED used by cyclists he has admitted to, in that tour. How ironic.

But I don't want to put words in Mark's mouth. BTW one can probably draw conclusions from his statement about why he wanted to pay back the FFF. If he used the money to fight a charge that he was innocent of then why the guilt? You know this....you are just stirring up ****.

OOPS, sucked into the vortex....it is a strong force indeed and I am weak. Now, back on the wagon!

 

[thehog]

Yet more assumptions on your part. Why go to USADA and Ashenden first if the Qui Tam case was his goal....

Correct and Why go to Lance for money? Lance doesn't actually have any money.

There is a common misconception that Lance is wealthy. He is not. He has a foundation, a house but not a lot more. The jet is no longer.

The man is cash poor.

The 40k bill per month to Fabani is being burnt through mighty fast. Demand IPO cash can't keep this together.

I see a fire sale soon.

 

[patricknd]

Yeah, just say no to the vortex.

Actually, these petty little arguments doc is floating out are even more petty than his past pettiness. For some reason to me he does not seem to be himself. I wonder why?

demon possesion?

 

[Digger]

Ahh, it's the "if you come clean you are no longer X" card.

So, if somebody rapes somebody and they come clean about it, they are no longer a rapist? What about a murderer that turns himself in?
Then of course this weds nicely with the opinion of some and apparently Ashendon that this investigation will deter future PED whistleblowers. Now we want to insulate dopers (oops, I mean people. They are no longer dopers if they confess to doping ) from any future accountability to any law enforcement entity if they tell what they know about doping in a bike race.

FL should just go rob a bank and pay back all the FFF clowns. If he gets indicted for robbing the bank then that would deter future fraudsters from doing right to pay back the defrauded. We can't have that. I suggest the 139 outraged patriots redirect their ire from the LA investigation and write their congresspeople to complain about this injustice catch 22.

I think we have now reached rock bottom on this forum.

 

[ChrisE]

Stupid people deserve to be screwed over? Really? So where does that place you? And don't call members of the paid up Tailwind champions club stupid! Never heard so much toddle in my life. People deserve to be screwed over? Such prejudice. Next you be telling me certain races will need to sit at the back of the bus!
.

OK, the hog.

I usually find amusement in your posts, but it is growing less amusing by the minute. The reason for this is you keep taking my posts way out of context and twisting my words. You have done this ever since I agreed with brodeal that you are full of ****.

I think you either do this because you are just trolling me, or you have some reading comprehension issues. Either way, watching what you come up with this crap recently is sorta like the comment I make to people when a hot chick walks by...some guy somewhere is tired of her ****. I am beginning to feel the same way about your increasingly less amusing posts.

So, I will clarify one more time for you on this particular "stupid people/fraud" issue. I should tell you that it will be the last time I reply to your posts if you continue this clown routine with your "misinterpretations". I'm not telling you this because you should give a **** I don't reply (I wouldn't if the tables were turned), but I am telling you this as a courtesy so you will not waste your time thinking of cute ways to reply to my posts in the future. You're welcome.

By "stupid" I mean stupid people that donated to FFF believing he was clean. Yes, I believe those people deserved to be screwed over. I don't know if you were on DPF when it got invaded by these FFF clowns and the TBV clowns. I was. But admittedly, along with not believing how stupid FL's supporters were, they did provide lots of entertainment. DPF had long leashes then and insulting these clowns and their theories was cool sport. Perhaps I am a little less tolerant of these idiots than you.

But, this for example does not mean that a person with the IQ of a hood ornament should be defrauded by say the Red Cross. If somebody that can't tie their shoes donates money to the Red Cross, the head of the Red Cross should not be able to take that money and go use it in the back room of The Men's Club just because the donator is stupid.

I hope this clarifies the "stupid people should be defrauded" remark that has made you think my moral compass has busted a spring.

 

[ChrisE]

I think we have now reached rock bottom on this forum.

Hey, you are the one that has this time lapse theory about when people should not be labeled "x".

It doesn't surprise me that you don't have an answer when you are called on your irrational BS.

 

[thehog]

OK, the hog.

I usually find amusement in your posts, but it is growing less amusing by the minute. The reason for this is you keep taking my posts way out of context and twisting my words. You have done this ever since I agreed with brodeal that you are full of ****.

I think you either do this because you are just trolling me, or you have some reading comprehension issues. Either way, watching what you come up with this crap recently is sorta like the comment I make to people when a hot chick walks by...some guy somewhere is tired of her ****. I am beginning to feel the same way about your increasingly less amusing posts.

So, I will clarify one more time for you on this particular "stupid people/fraud" issue. I should tell you that it will be the last time I reply to your posts if you continue this clown routine with your "misinterpretations". I'm not telling you this because you should give a **** I don't reply (I wouldn't if the tables were turned), but I am telling you this as a courtesy so you will not waste your time thinking of cute ways to reply to my posts in the future. You're welcome.

By "stupid" I mean stupid people that donated to FFF believing he was clean. Yes, I believe those people deserved to be screwed over. I don't know if you were on DPF when it got invaded by these FFF clowns and the TBV clowns. I was. But admittedly, along with not believing how stupid FL's supporters were, they did provide lots of entertainment. DPF had long leashes then and insulting these clowns and their theories was cool sport. Perhaps I am a little less tolerant of these idiots than you.

But, this for example does not mean that a person with the IQ of a hood ornament should be defrauded by say the Red Cross. If somebody that can't tie their shoes donates money to the Red Cross, the head of the Red Cross should not be able to take that money and go use it in the back room of The Men's Club just because the donator is stupid.

I hope this clarifies the "stupid people should be defrauded" remark that has made you think my moral compass has busted a spring.

You may have agreed with BroDeal but he certainly didn't agree with you! The same way you pretend you and Mark are friends. I'm still waiting for him to support your rallying cry against the haters! (I'm teasing!)

None the less I think you're warming to me... it takes time to understand my logic. But it’s worth it.

Now to the post at hand.

I think I finally get it. Why the hate and why the prejudice.

You were one of those people. I won’t say stupid because they will upset you. But I know why you’re so angry. You were one of those guys on DPF who supported the American contingent of Lance and Floyd against the nasty French. It was simple back then. Awesome American cyclists being persecuted by the French. Floyd included.

Now things are not so simple when Floyd came out with the real story from the ashes of the fairytale.

You had a choice. Where do you go? Do you believe his story. Or do you back the Lance horse which might be a seemingly better horse to back because it’s what the marketing says on the tin.

Sure I understand the division. But you know you can still like Lance and respect Floyd for what he’s done especially against great opposition.

You don’t actually have to pick sides.

Think about it.

Appears to me your more angry with Floyd for spoiling the dream in your head and making you look a little silly for the support you gave back in the day on DPF.

No I was never on DPF – are you serious? Those guys at one point intermated that suicide and a hit on certain cyclists was the way forward! Seriously. That’s what you subscribed to?

I like you Chris. I like your conviction. But you do need to have a long hard think about what’s motivating you here.

If you were to come back and acknowledge that Floyd has gone through a great trauma and now that he’s telling the truth doesn’t erase the prior hurt but it’s a big step towards a better cycling and more philosophically a better world (cringe).

This is why I keep saying you’re stuck in 2002. It’s like you’re willing for the days of the Blue Train again when everything was black and white.

World not like that my friend. World not like that.

Look forward to your thoughtful response.

 

[Digger]

Hey, you are the one that has this time lapse theory about when people should not be labeled "x".

It doesn't surprise me that you don't have an answer when you are called on your irrational BS.

I find it ironic that you call me irrational when you are drawing comparisons between murder, rape and what floyd did. You have never ever told a lie? Considering you are human I assume you did. Now let's label you a liar for the rest of your life. Regardless of you admitting the truth subsequently.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

He probably thinks he is lying about not taking test, as opposed to just about every other typical PED used by cyclists he has admitted to, in that tour. How ironic.

But I don't want to put words in Mark's mouth. BTW one can probably draw conclusions from his statement about why he wanted to pay back the FFF. If he used the money to fight a charge that he was innocent of then why the guilt? You know this....you are just stirring up ****.

OOPS, sucked into the vortex....it is a strong force indeed and I am weak. Now, back on the wagon!

Indeed we are all weak, we have all been sucked in to Marks vortex.
I appreciate you tried not to get sucked in and attempted not to "put words in Marks mouth" but when he continually fails to answer easy questions then it is understandable.

Yeah, just say no to the vortex.

Actually, these petty little arguments doc is floating out are even more petty than his past pettiness. For some reason to me he does not seem to be himself. I wonder why?

If you have a relevant question, then just ask, unlike Mark I have no problem answering it.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Landis is no stupid boy, he knew the consequenses when he talked about what he did. So he'll be prosecuted and convicted.

I dont know the American 'law' so what will he be facing? Here in Europe u get a slap on the wrist and a warning: 'don't do that again!', like upper doper Virenque, and then u return to being a hero.

Is Hamilton also under investigation or is that for next year. Because u know, when u accuse sire Lance u will be taken down.

 

[ChrisE]

I find it ironic that you call me irrational when you are drawing comparisons between murder, rape and what floyd did. You have never ever told a lie? Considering you are human I assume you did. Now let's label you a liar for the rest of your life. Regardless of you admitting the truth subsequently.

Again, and I am typing slowly this time, you are the one saying that after a certain point in time and after somebody comes clean they should no longer be called a liar. This is your argument, not mine.

I am not comparing what he did to anything; I am asking you to draw the line in the sand where your time lapse label theory does not apply. Apparently there are rules in your mind on how FL can be labeled that doesn't apply to anything else. Got it.

Yes, I have told lies before though I got out of that business many years ago....it is much easier to keep up with the truth than lies. FL didn't just lie....he went public with his innocence and solicitied funds to fight a charge he was guilty of. This is omerta on steroids, no pun intended. And some of us have skepticism about the "I did everything except T" card he is playing.

 

[ChrisE]

You were one of those people. I won’t say stupid because they will upset you. But I know why you’re so angry. You were one of those guys on DPF who supported the American contingent of Lance and Floyd against the nasty French. It was simple back then. Awesome American cyclists being persecuted by the French. Floyd included.
.

BUZZZZ! Time's up! I wrote this:

By "stupid" I mean stupid people that donated to FFF believing he was clean. Yes, I believe those people deserved to be screwed over. I don't know if you were on DPF when it got invaded by these FFF clowns and the TBV clowns. I was. But admittedly, along with not believing how stupid FL's supporters were, they did provide lots of entertainment. DPF had long leashes then and insulting these clowns and their theories was cool sport. Perhaps I am a little less tolerant of these idiots than you

The fact that you could type something so profoundly idiotic and 180 degrees opposite of what I just wrote is an obvious troll. Good bye, the hog.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Again, and I am typing slowly this time, you are the one saying that after a certain point in time and after somebody comes clean they should no longer be called a liar. This is your argument, not mine.

I am not comparing what he did to anything; I am asking you to draw the line in the sand where your time lapse label theory does not apply. Apparently there are rules in your mind on how FL can be labeled that doesn't apply to anything else. Got it.

Yes, I have told lies before though I got out of that business many years ago....it is much easier to keep up with the truth than lies. FL didn't just lie....he went public with his innocence and solicitied funds to fight a charge he was guilty of. This is omerta on steroids, no pun intended. And some of us have skepticism about the "I did everything except T" card he is playing.

You see, we are all getting sucked in to Marks vortex - he said that Floyd "is" a liar.
Its the reason i asked the question - which you attempted to answer for him.

I have no problem if marks assertion is that Floyd did lie and wants to continue to call Floyd a liar, but as Mark has had honesty issues himself I am curious to know do we bring it up every time? Disgraced former google lawyer

 

[Anonymous]

BUZZZZ! Time's up!

The fact that you could type something so profoundly idiotic and 180 degrees opposite of what I just wrote is an obvious troll. Good bye, the hog.

Rich, this is.

 

[MR_Sarcastic]

This case could go either way.
I remember, a few years ago, about reading about some women who scammed $50,000 out of people by claiming to have cancer....She got 5 years.
Just a week or two ago, I read about a woman who scammed a few thousand dollars, to pay for her wedding, by claiming to be dying. She "might" get a year or two.

Floyd might also get probation. His lawyers might claim that he was "disturbed" because of his TDF "problem".

 

[MarkvW]

Well you called him a liar....so if a person tells a lie at one stage in their life, but then comes clean, they are still liars until they die. Jesus that's a high moral ground you stand on...well done you.

Floyd ripped off his trusting fans years ago and he has not done anything to repay them. He said he'd repay them, but he hasn't done a darn thing. And he won't do a darn thing unless somebody makes him.

I don't trust Floyd's empty words.

With that said, I sure hope that Floyd, on his own, takes some steps to start repaying his fans back. That is what an honest person would do.