Floyd to be charged with fraud

[Dr. Maserati]

Floyd ripped off his trusting fans years ago and he has not done anything to repay them. He said he'd repay them, but he hasn't done a darn thing. And he won't do a darn thing unless somebody makes him.

I don't trust Floyd's empty words.

With that said, I sure hope that Floyd, on his own, takes some steps to start repaying his fans back. That is what an honest person would do.

Hi Mark,
But you are the person who continually points out that Floyd is "poor".
So, how can someone who is "poor" pay people back?

Also - should Lance pay me back for buying his books?

 

[Digger]

Floyd ripped off his trusting fans years ago and he has not done anything to repay them. He said he'd repay them, but he hasn't done a darn thing. And he won't do a darn thing unless somebody makes him.

I don't trust Floyd's empty words.
With that said, I sure hope that Floyd, on his own, takes some steps to start repaying his fans back. That is what an honest person would do.

Lance, is that you?

 

[Digger]

Again, and I am typing slowly this time, you are the one saying that after a certain point in time and after somebody comes clean they should no longer be called a liar. This is your argument, not mine.

I am not comparing what he did to anything; I am asking you to draw the line in the sand where your time lapse label theory does not apply. Apparently there are rules in your mind on how FL can be labeled that doesn't apply to anything else. Got it.

Yes, I have told lies before though I got out of that business many years ago....it is much easier to keep up with the truth than lies. FL didn't just lie....he went public with his innocence and solicitied funds to fight a charge he was guilty of. This is omerta on steroids, no pun intended. And some of us have skepticism about the "I did everything except T" card he is playing.

Are you you okay with me calling you a liar for the rest of your life eventhough you now don't lie. I mean you lied once, clearly you deserve to be called and labelled a liar forever more. Okay sorted liar.

 

[Digger]

Mark I assume you have told lies at some stage in your life. You are okay with being labelled a liar then i assume, otherwise you could be perceived as a hypocrite, and we all know you're not that...unless you have different degrees of lies!!

 

[MarkvW]

Lance, is that you?

Thanks a lot, troll.
So much for discussion with you.

 

[Digger]

Thanks a lot, troll.
So much for discussion with you.

And you were so much fun...the vitriol for a guy you never met...the assumptions made about a guy you never met. The labelling. Extraordinary. As someone pointed out earlier, you continuously label him as poor. Yet you also castigate him for not paying back the donors. You don't trust his empty words you say - yet it has been corroborated word for word by others. But one a liar always a liar I guess.

 

[thehog]

BUZZZZ! Time's up! I wrote this:



The fact that you could type something so profoundly idiotic and 180 degrees opposite of what I just wrote is an obvious troll. Good bye, the hog.

Hmmmmm. Raw nerve methinks. Bit to close to the bone?

It's ok. I'm here when you finally come to a realization that all is not what it seems.

Good luck with your journey. I hope you find what you're looking for - whether it be truth or a way to reconcile that things are never as simple as right and wrong.

 

[MarkvW]

And you were so much fun...the vitriol for a guy you never met...the assumptions made about a guy you never met. The labelling. Extraordinary. As someone pointed out earlier, you continuously label him as poor. Yet you also castigate him for not paying back the donors. You don't trust his empty words you say - yet it has been corroborated word for word by others. But one a liar always a liar I guess.

Floyd? Get a real job? Actually work to pay back his victims? Only if somebody makes him.

Keep reading "Positively False." Maybe you'll find truth in there somewhere!

 

[Hugh Januss]

Hi Mark,
But you are the person who continually points out that Floyd is "poor".
So, how can someone who is "poor" pay people back?

Also - should Lance pay me back for buying his books?

Clearly you don't understand, Lance has never admitted that anything in his books was anything but the god's honest truth. Therefore according to Chris and Mark's Law of Relative Morality Lance is not a liar and therefore owes you nothing. Remember it is bad to lie and then admit to it, it is noble to lie and try (even at huge expense) to carry it to the grave.

 

[MarkvW]

Clearly you don't understand, Lance has never admitted that anything in his books was anything but the god's honest truth. Therefore according to Chris and Mark's Law of Relative Morality Lance is not a liar and therefore owes you nothing. Remember it is bad to lie and then admit to it, it is noble to lie and try (even at huge expense) to carry it to the grave.

I think I see the problem here. I failed to recognize that here in the Clinic, absolutely everything is about Lance.

In other words, when I say "Floyd is a liar and a cheat", some Clinicians don't hear that. What they really hear me say is that "Lance is not a liar and a cheat."

How 'bout this: Floyd is a Lance Armstrong!

Do you understand that?

 

[Hugh Januss]

I think I see the problem here. I failed to recognize that here in the Clinic, absolutely everything is about Lance.

In other words, when I say "Floyd is a liar and a cheat", some Clinicians don't hear that. What they really hear me say is that "Lance is not a liar and a cheat."

How 'bout this: Floyd is a Lance Armstrong!

Do you understand that?

What you fail to recognize is that I was simply answering the Dr's question about Lance, bit tough to do that without "making it about Lance" wouldn't you say?

 

[Digger]

Floyd? Get a real job? Actually work to pay back his victims? Only if somebody makes him.

Keep reading "Positively False." Maybe you'll find truth in there somewhere!

Like the way you sidestepped the rest of my post about being labelled a liar for the rest of his life. Can you sit there an say you've never told a lie?

I mean even you admit previously that he has been corroborated to the hilt. So which is it? He can't have told lies both times. Is a person tied to a lie forever? If he did come clean just for the Qui Tam case, why speak with USADA for months beforehand?
And you say get a job...interesting. He was doing his best to get a job in case you've forgotten, but certain people within cycling wouldn't let him back in, eventhough others have been let do the same.
Also there has been non stop legal proceedings. UCI suing him being one example. He also voluntarily helped the FEDs by wearing a wire for example. But considering he is poor, and you say he cearly hasn't money to pay for lawyers, even if he did work, all his money would go for lawyers in your world of assumptions...

 

[Hugh Januss]

I think I see the problem here. I failed to recognize that here in the Clinic, absolutely everything is about Lance.

In other words, when I say "Floyd is a liar and a cheat", some Clinicians don't hear that. What they really hear me say is that "Lance is not a liar and a cheat."

How 'bout this: Floyd is a Lance Armstrong!

Do you understand that?

See that is where you are wrong. Basso is an LA, Contador is an LA, Bruyneel is an LA, all the guys doping and denying are worse than someone who (for whatever reason) has finally come clean. He now is not a liar, where before he was a liar. All those others are still liars. I know it might be a tough concept for you to grasp, but you seem reasonably intelligent, or you could try Google.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Well same ole same ole around these parts.

I still think (in my opinion) that this is about the general use of funds. I am not sure if someone with “knowledge” of the use of these funds is helping to direct the Fed’s investigation.

The Dr. seems to think that if this is the case (fraudulent use of funds) then it would have been done by others and not Floyd. I am not sure the Fed’s will make that type of distinction.

Most around here want to argue the “outside influence” that has caused this investigation. It seems like a subject that I will stay away from, since all the “paid interns” and “Floyd Fan Boys” are involved. You all aka "Y'all" have fun arguing the semantics of “is a liar” and “links”.

 

[MarkvW]

What you fail to recognize is that I was simply answering the Dr's question about Lance, bit tough to do that without "making it about Lance" wouldn't you say?

See that is where you are wrong. Basso is an LA, Contador is an LA, Bruyneel is an LA, all the guys doping and denying are worse than someone who (for whatever reason) has finally come clean. He now is not a liar, where before he was a liar. All those others are still liars. I know it might be a tough concept for you to grasp, but you seem reasonably intelligent, or you could try Google.

You want to forgive Floyd's defrauding people to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars because he admitted to doping when he was a bike racer.

I've forgiven Floyd for his doping. I'll forgive him for defrauding other people when he starts paying back his victims. Until then he's just a liar and a cheat.

 

[BotanyBay]

See that is where you are wrong. Basso is an LA, Contador is an LA, Bruyneel is an LA, all the guys doping and denying are worse than someone who (for whatever reason) has finally come clean. He now is not a liar, where before he was a liar. All those others are still liars. I know it might be a tough concept for you to grasp, but you seem reasonably intelligent, or you could try Google.

Floyd is not a "full disclosure" rehabilitist. He's still got a selective memory.

 

[Digger]

You want to forgive Floyd's defrauding people to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars because he admitted to doping when he was a bike racer.

I've forgiven Floyd for his doping. I'll forgive him for defrauding other people when he starts paying back his victims. Until then he's just a liar and a cheat.

I find that hard to believe, your dislike of him runs too deep. There's no way he can do anything right in your eyes.
For argument sake he paid everyone back tomorrow, you'd say he only paid them back due to duress. You would still find fault. The sooner you admit that the better for everyone.
Do you have these strong feelings for Tyler?

 

[Digger]

Floyd is not a "full disclosure" rehabilitist. He's still got a selective memory.

Expland there please...what hasn't he disclosed?

 

[thehog]

Expland there please...what hasn't he disclosed?

Think I've heard it all now! Couple weeks ago we had those telling us Floyd should have admitted back in 06 but not mention USPS doping even under heavy media questioning to this!!

Digs I certfy a lost cause in all of this.

Some people are just uncomfortable with the truth full stop.

They like the evil French, Crazy Betsy vs we have nothing to hide / I'd never do that to my body kinda pretend truth.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Landis is no stupid boy, he knew the consequenses when he talked about what he did. So he'll be prosecuted and convicted.

I dont know the American 'law' so what will he be facing? Here in Europe u get a slap on the wrist and a warning: 'don't do that again!', like upper doper Virenque, and then u return to being a hero.

Is Hamilton also under investigation or is that for next year. Because u know, when u accuse sire Lance u will be taken down.

Floyd won't be indicted. There was no fraud. The money was used for the purpose he specified: his defense. Floyd didn't even control the money. Whether or not he was actually innocent to the underlying charges is irrelevant. Besides it was called the Floyd Fairness Fund, not the Floyd Innocence Fund. Also, given that the website no longer exists and the exact wording on the site are not likely to be resurrected, where's the direct link to any specific wording of fraud...and explain to me how Floyd is responsible for it given he is going to claim he never had anything to do with the website? Floyd is not responsible for whoever wrote what they did on the website. I'm sure the AUSA will realize his case is not what it seems once he looks into all these issues. Seems like a young AUSA who is just trying to make a name for himself since (a) he is a licensed cyclist and (b) how come Floyd wasn't indicted 5 years ago?

 

[ChrisE]

Are you you okay with me calling you a liar for the rest of your life eventhough you now don't lie. I mean you lied once, clearly you deserve to be called and labelled a liar forever more. Okay sorted liar.

Don't be so base.

FL participated in an omerta system for years, lied about his guilt, and duped rubes with those lies for financial gain (meaning he normally would have used his money to fight it). Only after LA would not employ him did he find religion. That's why he is no longer lying, not for some ethical reason.

I believe the term liar in this sense should have a little longer statute of limitations than the every day lie that kids tell, don't you think? Or, are you so far off the ledge there is no turning back?

 

[TERMINATOR]

This case could go either way.
I remember, a few years ago, about reading about some women who scammed $50,000 out of people by claiming to have cancer....She got 5 years.
Just a week or two ago, I read about a woman who scammed a few thousand dollars, to pay for her wedding, by claiming to be dying. She "might" get a year or two.

Floyd might also get probation. His lawyers might claim that he was "disturbed" because of his TDF "problem".

The difference is Floyd actually had a defense team and the money went towards paying that defense. No fraud here.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think I see the problem here. I failed to recognize that here in the Clinic, absolutely everything is about Lance.

In other words, when I say "Floyd is a liar and a cheat", some Clinicians don't hear that. What they really hear me say is that "Lance is not a liar and a cheat."

How 'bout this: Floyd is a Lance Armstrong!

Do you understand that?

Hi Mark,
No, sadly again you miss the point.
The reason I asked you the question is because I knew you couldn't implicate your Lance (seems you forgot about how I always know the answer before asking?).

See it has nothing to do with Lance, it is about you - how you have different standards for the different riders. It is what starts you in your spin.

You want to forgive Floyd's defrauding people to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars because he admitted to doping when he was a bike racer.

I've forgiven Floyd for his doping. I'll forgive him for defrauding other people when he starts paying back his victims. Until then he's just a liar and a cheat.

You refer to these people as victims? Do you consider Thom Wiesl a victim?

Many of the big donors have already said they contributed to support his defense, regardless of whether he was innocent and they did not want their money back.

 

[ChrisE]

The difference is Floyd actually had a defense team and the money went towards paying that defense. No fraud here.

You have no idea if that is completelytrue or not. You are not the FFF accountant under oath. Hopefully the investigation will take it's course and then we will see.

 

[Digger]

Don't be so base.

FL participated in an omerta system for years, lied about his guilt, and duped rubes with those lies for financial gain (meaning he normally would have used his money to fight it). Only after LA would not employ him did he find religion. That's why he is no longer lying, not for some ethical reason.

I believe the term liar in this sense should have a little longer statute of limitations than the every day lie that kids tell, don't you think? Or, are you so far off the ledge there is no turning back?

Here we have it...ChrisE is the ruler and arbitrator of lies. I.e. what warrants a lie, how serious it is, and how long they need to be considered or labelled a liar...the same guy who mentioned rape and murder in his strawman argument earlier today.

But at last you accept he is no longer lying. Finally you are seeing sense in that regard at least.

By the way if his motives weren't pure, as you make out, why wear a wire voluntarily? Why go to USADA in private? Why work with Ashenden?