Floyd to be charged with fraud

[thehog]

No, really, its not what I'm saying.

Yet again, your comprehension skills are lacking. The point is, honesty is as much about the timing of a confession, as the content of it..

Also it's not Landis who riles me up. I care as much about him as I do Armstrong.

Its the hypocrisy of cudddling up with Landis because he gels nicely with the Anti LA mantra.

If your (and others) moral compass is so well adjusted, you should see that picking and choosing the other a$$hole to support, is just a different side of the same coin.

I was wondering when you were going to play the Armstrong card!

Sure it has a lot to do with Armstrong but thats not why I respect Floyd for confessing. They did ride on the same team and Armstrong was in constant contact with Landis after his positive.

I was critical of Landis back in the day. But the more I read of his story the more I'm fascinated by the inner mechanics of the cycling world.

The man has strength. First person to take on Lance Inc. and the UCI in one swoop. Not seen that done before. Are you going to tell me hands off the UCI?

As for honesty are seriously suggesting honesty has levels? The stakes are higher if you're richer and have material goods? Seriosuly? Honesty is honesty. Pure and simple. Regardless of where it comes from and from which socioeconomic status. It doesnt have levels as you describe. That is absurd way of thinking.

Basic goodness comes from within. Not from your wallet.

You guys crack me up. I say Landis was strong for manning up - the response I get is - "no he only manned up in a half way!" I say the same again and I get told he should have managed his confession not to get Armstrong caught up in it! You guys just keep twisting it around and around in a vain attempt to make him look bad again.*

Honesty is honesty. 100%. We may not like what we hear but it's the truth.

 

[MarkvW]

ChrisE calm down now man, you know you walk a thin line in here. Anger management classes...remember what they taught you.

Anyway you reason people like Botany, Mark and yourself have an issue with Floyd is his honesty. Yee can't accept that someone in cycling can be that honest. Compare that level of honesty to Lance for example. Floyd came clean about everything, Lance still says he pities us for not believing in miracles.

It's like you're sorry for us because we "can't believe in miracles." Just accept the fact that Floyd trashed his own reputation. You are still in the denial stage. Trust me, once you get to acceptance it will be much better.

What positive things has Floyd done to rebuild the reputation that he himself demolished? Flip comments on Twitter? Stock car racing school? "Full ***?" "Chade O. Grey?" Floyd done two good things: He has snitched off the Postal Team and aided (we think) the federal investigation (both acts taken to aid the qui tam lawsuit he filed).

You are asking everybody to ignore the wreckage that is Floyd's life. Sorry, but that wreckage is too obvious to ignore. It is a true tragedy. And this criminal investigation is hopefully the last act in that tragedy.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I was wondering when you were going to play the Armstrong card!

Sure it has a lot to do with Armstrong but thats not why I respect Floyd for confessing. They did ride on the same team and Armstrong was in constant contact with Landis after his positive.

I was critical of Landis back in the day. But the more I read of his story the more I'm fascinated by the inner mechanics of the cycling world.

The man has strength. First person to take on Lance Inc. and the UCI in one swoop. Not seen that done before. Are you going to tell me hands off the UCI?

As for honesty are seriously suggesting honesty has levels? The stakes are higher if you're richer and have material goods? Seriosuly? Honesty is honesty. Pure and simple. Regardless of where it comes from and from which socioeconomic status. It doesnt have levels as you describe. That is absurd way of thinking.

Basic goodness comes from within. Not from your wallet.

You guys crack me up. I say Landis was strong for manning up - the response I get is - "no he only manned up in a half way!" I say the same again and I get told he should have managed his confession not to get Armstrong caught up in it! You guys just keep twisting it around and around in a vain attempt to make him look bad again.*

Honesty is honesty. 100%. We may not like what we hear but it's the truth.

Couldn't agree more. But you know, when you want to take the top of the piramide down there is a long way to go. In fact, how cleaner can you get if you rat out the seven times winner of the Tour de France?

And questioninig Landis' personal life is in my opinion mere a defecit on arguments. Not to mention totally off topic.

 

[andy1234]

I was wondering when you were going to play the Armstrong card!

Sure it has a lot to do with Armstrong but thats not why I respect Floyd for confessing. They did ride on the same team and Armstrong was in constant contact with Landis after his positive.

I was critical of Landis back in the day. But the more I read of his story the more I'm fascinated by the inner mechanics of the cycling world.

The man has strength. First person to take on Lance Inc. and the UCI in one swoop. Not seen that done before. Are you going to tell me hands off the UCI?

As for honesty are seriously suggesting honesty has levels? The stakes are higher if you're richer and have material goods? Seriosuly? Honesty is honesty. Pure and simple. Regardless of where it comes from and from which socioeconomic status. It doesnt have levels as you describe. That is absurd way of thinking.

Basic goodness comes from within. Not from your wallet.

You guys crack me up. I say Landis was strong for manning up - the response I get is - "no he only manned up in a half way!" I say the same again and I get told he should have managed his confession not to get Armstrong caught up in it! You guys just keep twisting it around and around in a vain attempt to make him look bad again.*

Honesty is honesty. 100%. We may not like what we hear but it's the truth.

You are misunderstanding what Im saying

It has nothing to do with money or otherwise, and I have no idea why you are interpreting what I said in that way.

A confession brought about by a need to set ones life straight, and do right by the people around you, has merit.
A confession brought about by a lack of alternatives and a desire for revenge, does not.

Landis manned up in the same way a child does when they get caught with their hand in a cookie jar. The game is up and it's a survival mechanism.


A confession does not necessarily equate to honesty.

 

[MarkvW]

Landis confessed when he didn't have to, unlike Lance, who continues to uphold the Omerta. Landis' suspension was up, so he didn't have anything to gain from a confession. He wasn't before a Grand Jury where he faced consequences if he told lies. So your posts is nonsense as usual. Landis isn't even on the same stratosphere as Lance when it comes to honesty. Some people on here can't handle honesty though and continue to find fault even when they do get honesty.

Repeat after me: FLOYD -- DID -- IT -- FOR -- THE -- MONEY.

Floyd had a lot to gain from a confession. Can you say "millions of dollars in a qui tam lawsuit?"

 

[BotanyBay]

Ok so no proof he came clean about everything.

If Landis made his confessions when his stocks were high, I might agree that he is an honest guy.

He didn't, he confessed when he had f*ck all else available to him.

If things had gone his way, he would still have been hiding his duplicity in just the same way as Armstrong.

Of course any enemy of Armstrong, is a friend of the clinic massive.
Pretend otherwise, but thats where the Landis forgiveness stems from.

I really would like to trust what Floyd has said in the past year. And if he had said these things in, oh, 2006, 2007, even 2009, I'd probably be inclined to believe him. But at some point, Floyd passed the "point of it not mattering anymore". And knowing that the "holy trinity of critics" will want to know at what point (exactly) he crossed that threshold, I must admit, I can't exactly say. But he crossed it, and he crossed it a long time ago. Which baton blow was the one that eventually crossed-over and caused the L.A riots? It's hard to say. But most of us can agree that it did.

And please, do not read this as comedy (because it is not intended as such), but there is a long wake of carnage left in Floyd's particular path. He didn't just fall, but he fell in a most cowardly way. You guys are saying that he threw his teammates (and other pros) under the bus. Big deal. They had it coming. What about his family and friends? He even threw Greg Lemond under the bus. A guy who had actually reached-out and tried to counsel him.

If Floyd wants to spill the beans, then fine. Do it in private with the people who actually count (US Atty, USADA, USAC, etc). Then they can vet his story, and attempt to determine fact from fiction. And then let the chips fall where they may. And I said this back upon the news of the Birotte decision, but if you're going to put Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton up on the stand as your primary witnesses, you're not playing an "A" game. At best, you're dealing with people on the same level (credibility-wise) as Mafia turncoats. IE, it doesn't take Mark Fabiani's connections to make that clear as day. Perhaps it took the skill of a Mark Fabiani to change the minds of a few dunces. Surely there's a few dunces here as well.

 

[thehog]

Oh dear.... here we go again.


You do realise he did do it privately? He actually wrote letters to USADA/UCI before the story leaked. What you saw in the press back in May 2010 was the letters he wrote privately to the anti-doping authorities.

And just look at the sterling job the UCI did with that private information - they pretended to sue him!

Here we go again. Honestly had to be done the BB way for it to be genuine. Crikey!

 

[MarkvW]

I really would like to trust what Floyd has said in the past year. And if he had said these things in, oh, 2006, 2007, even 2009, I'd probably be inclined to believe him. But at some point, Floyd passed the "point of it not mattering anymore". And knowing that the "holy trinity of critics" will want to know at what point (exactly) he crossed that threshold, I must admit, I can't exactly say. But he crossed it, and he crossed it a long time ago. Which baton blow was the one that eventually crossed-over and caused the L.A riots? It's hard to say. But most of us can agree that it did.

And please, do not read this as comedy (because it is not intended as such), but there is a long wake of carnage left in Floyd's particular path. He didn't just fall, but he fell in a most cowardly way. You guys are saying that he threw his teammates (and other pros) under the bus. Big deal. They had it coming. What about his family and friends? He even threw Greg Lemond under the bus. A guy who had actually reached-out and tried to counsel him.

If Floyd wants to spill the beans, then fine. Do it in private with the people who actually count (US Atty, USADA, USAC, etc). Then they can vet his story, and attempt to determine fact from fiction. And then let the chips fall where they may. And I said this back upon the news of the Birotte decision, but if you're going to put Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton up on the stand as your primary witnesses, you're not playing an "A" game. At best, you're dealing with people on the same level (credibility-wise) as Mafia turncoats. IE, it doesn't take Mark Fabiani's connections to make that clear as day. Perhaps it took the skill of a Mark Fabiani to change the minds of a few dunces. Surely there's a few dunces here as well.

I can't believe that Floyd has lied about anything in his public confession (except TdF testosterone). It's been highly corroborated and it would be against Floyd's financial self interest to make stuff up (it would hurt his qui tam). I'm totally with you, though on the selectivity of Floyd's revelations.

 

[patricknd]

Repeat after me: FLOYD -- DID -- IT -- FOR -- THE -- MONEY.

Floyd had a lot to gain from a confession. Can you say "millions of dollars in a qui tam lawsuit?"

He just wants to pay people back. He'll probably give the rest to charity

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You are misunderstanding what Im saying

It has nothing to do with money or otherwise, and I have no idea why you are interpreting what I said in that way.

A confession brought about by a need to set ones life straight, and do right by the people around you, has merit.
A confession brought about by a lack of alternatives and a desire for revenge, does not.

Landis manned up in the same way a child does when they get caught with their hand in a cookie jar. The game is up and it's a survival mechanism.


A confession does not necessarily equate to honesty.

Andy you asked for a link to where Floyd tells the truth - just google Kimmage Landis. Is it all truthful? I don't know, however most of what he says can be verified through other pieces over the years and certainly some of the gaps in his original confession have had plausible explanations.

So can you show somewhere in that interview that is a lie? I have asked others who made the same claims and they have come back empty handed.

To the highlighted - you say a confession to get his life straight has merit, but then you suggest his primary motivation was revenge.
So why did he throw his best friend DaveZ under the bus also, if his motivation was to get revenge (by which I assume you mean LA)?
He did not need to mention half the stuff he did if it was motivated by revenge.

 

[Digger]

I really would like to trust what Floyd has said in the past year. And if he had said these things in, oh, 2006, 2007, even 2009, I'd probably be inclined to believe him. But at some point, Floyd passed the "point of it not mattering anymore". And knowing that the "holy trinity of critics" will want to know at what point (exactly) he crossed that threshold, I must admit, I can't exactly say. But he crossed it, and he crossed it a long time ago. Which baton blow was the one that eventually crossed-over and caused the L.A riots? It's hard to say. But most of us can agree that it did.

And please, do not read this as comedy (because it is not intended as such), but there is a long wake of carnage left in Floyd's particular path. He didn't just fall, but he fell in a most cowardly way. You guys are saying that he threw his teammates (and other pros) under the bus. Big deal. They had it coming. What about his family and friends? He even threw Greg Lemond under the bus. A guy who had actually reached-out and tried to counsel him.

If Floyd wants to spill the beans, then fine. Do it in private with the people who actually count (US Atty, USADA, USAC, etc). Then they can vet his story, and attempt to determine fact from fiction. And then let the chips fall where they may. And I said this back upon the news of the Birotte decision, but if you're going to put Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton up on the stand as your primary witnesses, you're not playing an "A" game. At best, you're dealing with people on the same level (credibility-wise) as Mafia turncoats. IE, it doesn't take Mark Fabiani's connections to make that clear as day. Perhaps it took the skill of a Mark Fabiani to change the minds of a few dunces. Surely there's a few dunces here as well.

Haha you were the one who said he wasn't talking enough!!! haha this place cracks me up.

And in case you didn't know, which you clearly don't know, Floyd did speak to these people long before it came public. In case you forget it wasn't him who went public, the emails were leaked. The emails to USADA.

 

[Digger]

Ok so no proof he came clean about everything.

If Landis made his confessions when his stocks were high, I might agree that he is an honest guy.

He didn't, he confessed when he had f*ck all else available to him.
If things had gone his way, he would still have been hiding his duplicity in just the same way as Armstrong.

Of course any enemy of Armstrong, is a friend of the clinic massive.
Pretend otherwise, but thats where the Landis forgiveness stems from.

The new rules - these rules are being invented each day. Now it's not enough to be honest. You can only be honest when you have something left to lose. Brilliant.

 

[MarkvW]

He just wants to pay people back. He'll probably give the rest to charity

I think there is a part of him that sincerely does, but that part won't control without court-ordered restitution.

 

[Digger]

It's like you're sorry for us because we "can't believe in miracles." Just accept the fact that Floyd trashed his own reputation. You are still in the denial stage. Trust me, once you get to acceptance it will be much better.

What positive things has Floyd done to rebuild the reputation that he himself demolished? Flip comments on Twitter? Stock car racing school? "Full ***?" "Chade O. Grey?" Floyd done two good things: He has snitched off the Postal Team and aided (we think) the federal investigation (both acts taken to aid the qui tam lawsuit he filed).

You are asking everybody to ignore the wreckage that is Floyd's life. Sorry, but that wreckage is too obvious to ignore. It is a true tragedy. And this criminal investigation is hopefully the last act in that tragedy.

Yee are revelling in it. Yee love bringing it up just to further your points.

 

[thehog]

Repeat after me: FLOYD -- DID -- IT -- FOR -- THE -- MONEY.

Floyd had a lot to gain from a confession. Can you say "millions of dollars in a qui tam lawsuit?"

Thats an unusual response Mark. Do tell us more. What do you know about the money and this qui tam case?*

Only yesterday you were telling us he was poor and couldn't defend himself and now you say he's launching some complex case with the government?

You are confusing at times.*

 

[MarkvW]

Thats an unusual response Mark. Do tell us more. What do you know about the money and this qui tam case?*

Only yesterday you were telling us he was poor and couldn't defend himself and now you say he's launching some complex case with the government?

You are confusing at times.*

Okay, Hog, say it with me: CONTINGENT -- FEES.

You'll get it!

 

[thehog]

Okay, Hog, say it with me: CONTINGENT -- FEES.

You'll get it!

Sadly I do not get it. Can you elaborate? You seem to know a little about how this works.

I'm not sure I understand. I thought the investigation was over.

What's this about the Qua Tem case?

 

[Digger]

Okay, Hog, say it with me: CONTINGENT -- FEES.

You'll get it!

Hold on...you say you're not happy with his reasons for confessing. That it was monetary motivation. But then you say you will not be happy until he pays people back.

 

[MarkvW]

Sadly I do not get it. Can you elaborate? You seem to know a little about how this works.

I'm not sure I understand. I thought the investigation was over.

What's this about the Qua Tem case?

Good! You understand!

 

[BotanyBay]

Haha you were the one who said he wasn't talking enough!!! haha this place cracks me up..

He needs to come clean on the testosterone. Talk more. Admit it.

And in case you didn't know, which you clearly don't know, Floyd did speak to these people long before it came public.

Prove it.

 

[Digger]

Sadly I do not get it. Can you elaborate? You seem to know a little about how this works.

I'm not sure I understand. I thought the investigation was over.

What's this about the Qua Tem case?

Hopefully his lawyer skills are better than his accountancy skills or you'd be as well off emailing Sesame Street asking them to explain Quo Tum.

 

[Digger]

He needs to come clean on the testosterone. Talk more. Admit it.



Prove it.

But you don't want him to talk more. You only want him to talk to the relevant authorities and not come public.

As regards proving it, how do you think the emails came public in the first place? Who was he talking to?
Floyd didn't Go to the media. It's this honesty that you are struggling to comprehend. You keep looking for lies but know full well it's the whole truth.

 

[thehog]

You are misunderstanding what Im saying

It has nothing to do with money or otherwise, and I have no idea why you are interpreting what I said in that way.

A confession brought about by a need to set ones life straight, and do right by the people around you, has merit.
A confession brought about by a lack of alternatives and a desire for revenge, does not.

Landis manned up in the same way a child does when they get caught with their hand in a cookie jar. The game is up and it's a survival mechanism.


A confession does not necessarily equate to honesty.

Just so I understand you're now talking about a "confession" and not "honesty".

I'll say it again. Honesty is honesty no matter how its conducted.

If Armstrong admitted then maybe we can get the other side of the story but unfortunately he hasn't "confessed" as yet nor has he been "honest" Two strikes for him!

Your analogy with a child with hand caught in the cookie jar is silly. I teach my children honesty regardless of the circumstances. I don't rate it on how they did or under what circumstances. I ask them to be honest and true. Sometimes it comes out a little later than I'd like but ultimately I ask that they find that point.

Often honesty is a journey. Its takes time to reach that point. Its not always instant.

Why do you have to make something so complex out of something simple as "honesty".

It knows no bounds.

 

[Digger]

Just so I understand you're now talking about a "confession" and not "honesty".

I'll say it again. Honesty is honesty no matter how its conducted.

If Armstrong admitted then maybe we can get the other side of the story but unfortunately he hasn't "confessed" as yet nor has he been "honest" Two strikes for him!

Your analogy with a child with hand caught in the cookie jar is silly. I teach my children honesty regardless of the circumstances. I don't rate it on how they did or under what circumstances. I ask them to be honest and true. Sometimes it comes out a little later than I'd like but ultimately I ask that they find that point.

Often honesty is a journey. Its takes time to reach that point. Its not always instant.

Why do you have to make something so complex out of something simple as "honesty".

It knows no bounds.

Andy doesn't want his kids ever confessing if they have nothing left to lose. He wants them going down fighting!!!

 

[thehog]

Andy doesn't want his kids ever confessing if they have nothing left to lose. He wants them going down fighting!!!

Yes I'm learning a lot on this forum about honesty and how it should be conducted. There are several rules and levels to it and its based on how much money you have.

I'll need to start writing some of this stuff down because its getting a little confusing. I may need a whiteboard and some graph paper to go into the advanced complexities of how it should be conducted.

I used to think it was so simple but now I'm not so sure.

Maybe Bono can help me understand?

@lancearmstrong Sometimes, my friend, the lie is ugly but the truth is unbearable.

- Thanks Bono.