football and basketball

[Buffalo Soldier]

That soccer is more exiting to watch than Football is beyond my understanding. You tell me what´s interesting in seeing 1-0 games decided by obscure penalty kicks, red cards and pure chance. I don´t get it.

What's beyond my understanding is how you call soccer boring on a cycling forum.
We all watch hours of pelotons chasing an early breakaway, knowing they will get caught, and cavendish will win the sprint.

And what's the problem with only 1 goal in a match? A sport can only be great if there are a lot of goals?

 

[pmcg76]

I think we can´t agree here. I played leauge soccer in my youth (am born and living in germany). So i can talk about skills a little. All positions (except the GK) need the same skills: lots of endurance, one strong leg, and speed. Let me go here as comparison with a Football OL-Center: He needs strenght, great blocking skills, quickness (with a 300 lbs body!), a brain to recall a 200-page-Playbook. That turns into a 8-hour working day: Watching (and learning from) game film, weight lifting, training sessions. How long is the usual training session for a soccer player? Exactly, 2 hours per day.

I think your dead right on that one but you do realise you are in the minority on this apart from the US of course.

Please done compare what you experienced compared to an NFL player unless you played in the Bundesliga, I think its being naive to suggest footballers train for 2 hours a day, lots of team have double training sessions. You are doing soccer players a disservice to suggest they only need endurance, one strong leg & speed, they need loads of skills and they dont need to memorise plays, they have to do it on the spot which is more difficult than playing some pre-planned move. When things are pre-planned, its the coach that decides the moves so everything is pre-programmed. Players dont have to think for themselves other than QB.



63% of NFL-Favourite wins isn´t that much. That´s why we had surprise SB-Winners like the Pats in 2001, Steelers 2005, Colts 2006 etc. etc.! But it´s real anoying when refs and chance only decide the games (like in soccer). I like surprises, but not sheer coincidence. Normally the better should win, that should be the nature of competition.

Come on, Steelers or Colts were not surprises, that is rubbish right there. Both teams had been regularly reaching the play-offs before they won. I know enought about NFL that you just cannot BS me. And who were the last team to win an international competition by coincidence in soccer. The top teams usually come out on top as well.



The game is grueling, that´s why it´s 16 games. A nice byproduct is that fans never get over feed like in soccer where 1 million games, cups and championships are awarded. Who´s really the best team then?

The reason there is so many competitions is that Soccer is an international sport which American football is not, they cannot have a World Cup or European Championship or Champions league or Copa Libertadores. If you take one country as an example Germany, there is usually the league and a cup, maybe two. Its is not complicated until the international angle is included. If American football was played everywhere, there would be many more competitions as well.



Why is it then by far the sport in the USA? The problem (next to understanding the rules) is that people only grow up in USA with that sport. In germany we have a Saying: "Was der Bauer nicht kennt isst er nicht" (Sorry, can´t translate it in english).

I think the US wanted to distinguish themselves separately from England so invented their own sports which they turned into marketing, money making operations with a little bit of sport in between. The same reason Ireland has Gaelic games and Australia has Aussie rules without the money making aspect.

That soccer is more exiting to watch than Football is beyond my understanding. You tell me what´s interesting in seeing 1-0 games decided by obscure penalty kicks, red cards and pure chance. I don´t get it.

And the opposite applies for myself and most of the world. A game that stops every 30 seconds and takes numerous time-outs,two minute warnings during play can hardly be described as riveting either. Surely you saw the Schalke-Inter game last night, 7 goals, a shock defeat of the reigning champions on their own turf by inferior competition. That first goal by Stankovic alone was amazing. How that could be described as inferior to NFL is beyond me.



And somebody converted me, and he converted somebody and so on... We have a really good fan culture here, making the otherwise dull cold winter enjoyable to see 3 Live-Games until way past midnight in some cute bars. In the same time we enjoy new friendships with americans who live or make holidays here.

And of course the exact same exists in the US where soccer has a big sub-culture which never existed 20 years ago,Soccer has gained far more ground in the US than American football has gained anywhere so surely that says it all really.

In the end we are not going to agree, suffice to say the biggest individual sports event in the World is the soccer World Cup. Period.

 

[pmcg76]

I think we can´t agree here. I played leauge soccer in my youth (am born and living in germany). So i can talk about skills a little. All positions (except the GK) need the same skills: lots of endurance, one strong leg, and speed. Let me go here as comparison with a Football OL-Center: He needs strenght, great blocking skills, quickness (with a 300 lbs body!), a brain to recall a 200-page-Playbook. That turns into a 8-hour working day: Watching (and learning from) game film, weight lifting, training sessions. How long is the usual training session for a soccer player? Exactly, 2 hours per day.



63% of NFL-Favourite wins isn´t that much. That´s why we had surprise SB-Winners like the Pats in 2001, Steelers 2005, Colts 2006 etc. etc.! But it´s real anoying when refs and chance only decide the games (like in soccer). I like surprises, but not sheer coincidence. Normally the better should win, that should be the nature of competition.



The game is grueling, that´s why it´s 16 games. A nice byproduct is that fans never get over feed like in soccer where 1 million games, cups and championships are awarded. Who´s really the best team then?



Why is it then by far the sport in the USA? The problem (next to understanding the rules) is that people only grow up in USA with that sport. In germany we have a Saying: "Was der Bauer nicht kennt isst er nicht" (Sorry, can´t translate it in english).
That soccer is more exiting to watch than Football is beyond my understanding. You tell me what´s interesting in seeing 1-0 games decided by obscure penalty kicks, red cards and pure chance. I don´t get it.



And somebody converted me, and he converted somebody and so on... We have a really good fan culture here, making the otherwise dull cold winter enjoyable to see 3 Live-Games until way past midnight in some cute bars. In the same time we enjoy new friendships with americans who live or make holidays here.

I think your dead right on that one but you do realise you are in the minority on this apart from the US of course.

Please dont compare what you experienced compared to an NFL player unless you played in the Bundesliga, I think its being naive to suggest footballers train for 2 hours a day, lots of team have double training sessions. You are doing soccer players a disservice to suggest they only need endurance, one strong leg & speed, they need loads of skills and they dont need to memorise plays, they have to do it on the spot which is more difficult than playing some pre-planned move. When things are pre-planned, its the coach that decides the moves so everything is pre-programmed. Players dont have to think for themselves other than QB.

Come on, Steelers or Colts were not surprises, that is rubbish right there. Both teams had been regularly reaching the play-offs before they won. I know enought about NFL that you just cannot BS me. And who were the last team to win an international competition by coincidence in soccer. The top teams usually come out on top as well.


The reason there is so many competitions is that Soccer is an international sport which American football is not, they cannot have a World Cup or European Championship or Champions league or Copa Libertadores. If you take one country as an example Germany, there is usually the league and a cup, maybe two. Its is not complicated until the international angle is included. If American football was played everywhere, there would be many more competitions as well.

I think the US wanted to distinguish themselves separately from England so invented their own sports which they turned into marketing, money making operations with a little bit of sport in between. The same reason Ireland has Gaelic games and Australia has Aussie rules without the money making aspect.

I find anyone who decribes NFL as more exciting than soccer as crazy. A game that stops every 30 seconds and takes numerous time-outs,two minute warnings etc during play can hardly be described as riveting either, three hours to play 60mins, seriously.

Surely you saw the Schalke-Inter game last night, 7 goals, a shock defeat of the reigning champions on their own turf by inferior competition. That first goal by Stankovic alone was amazing. How that could be described as inferior to NFL is beyond me.

And of course the exact same exists in the US where soccer has a big sub-culture which never existed 20 years ago,Soccer has gained far more ground in the US than American football has gained anywhere so surely that says it all really.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

As far as I am concerned, each NFL player has a set of skills for their position whilst almost every soccer players need a wide variety of skills, speed, ball control, tackling, passing, heading, creating space, anticipation, trickery, shooting, tracking. Each player does these to varying levels. Take a wide receiver in American football in comparison, they need speed, catching skills, anticipation, creating space, trickery and......thats a lesser set of skills for a player who spends a lot of time on the sideline.

I don't think that's a very good comparison. WR's also block on many plays, they even tackle or defend at times, many play special teams, some even pass the ball on trick plays.

With soccer the one element missing is that because players do not use their hands (sans keeper), it removes a large element from the athlete's skill as a human being. This isn't to imply that soccer players aren't athletic or skilled. They are super trained, their skills with their feet very refined, no doubt about it. I just don't think your comparison is very good. I also agree with you that pro soccer players are very fit, and train a great deal with coaches screaming at them. I used to cover players training and practice working video crew. It's just as involved as any other major sport.

As to sudden death. In the NFL as of last year there was a rule that in the playoffs each team gets to touch the ball at lest once in overtime. This rule hasn't come into play yet, but it's a welcome minor change most of us think. USL soccer considered at one point having playoff matches in soccer end not on penalty kicks, but by removing the keeper in matches that go to double overtime. While a bit crazy, I think that would be better than penalty kicks. The USL could never agree on it though, and it never happened.

As to HGH and doping in the NFL, at least Goddell is trying something. I think he blew the negotiations with the players and owners with the CBA, but on this issue he is ahead of the game and should keep pushing at this. Other major sports are woefully behind. Yes, compared to cycling there isn't as much testing, but the NFL isn't as corrupt as the UCI, and while there is doping in the NFL, no doubt, it's more assertive than MLB or the NBA or NHL or MLS or FIFA for that matter.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

What's beyond my understanding is how you call soccer boring on a cycling forum. We all watch hours of pelotons chasing an early breakaway, knowing they will get caught...

Agree those types of stages are boring for the most part, but the final minute is exciting, and usually the scenery is terrific!

And what's the problem with only 1 goal in a match? A sport can only be great if there are a lot of goals?

He said "decided by penalty kicks". Or implied similar with red cards. I don't think he was commenting on a very close, well played game that ends up 1-0.

The Colts were not a surprise SB winner in XLI. The Steelers were a little bit in SB XLas they were a #6 seed, but that's also the one (and only) SB where the officials affected the outcome the game with bad calls (and admitted it later). The Saints were a bit of a surprise over the Colts to some. A great many people were surprised the Giants beat the Patriots in SB XLII, and many think if they played again a week later the Patriots would have won. But hey, that's the way it goes sometimes.

 

[Nastyy]

I think the average soccer player covers on average 5km/3miles in a normal game. .

They run about 10 kilometres in one game.

No talents? You need skill, brain, toughness, technique, speed, power, quickness...

Skill? Quarterback throwing the ball. Brain? No one. Technique? For what?

I think we can´t agree here. I played leauge soccer in my youth (am born and living in germany). So i can talk about skills a little. All positions (except the GK) need the same skills: lots of endurance, one strong leg, and speed. Let me go here as comparison with a Football OL-Center: He needs strenght, great blocking skills, quickness (with a 300 lbs body!), a brain to recall a 200-page-Playbook. That turns into a 8-hour working day: Watching (and learning from) game film, weight lifting, training sessions. How long is the usual training session for a soccer player? Exactly, 2 hours per day.

You seem to know nothing about football. The skills needed in different positions vary a LOT and if a player is taken from his usual position and put somewhere else he is likely to suck.
And they train a lot too. Most of the pro's train 3 times a day. And football has really taken tactical coaching to the extreme. Nowadays coaches have assistans who count percentages for every corner kick possibility, which foot is the opponents forwards more likely to use, which direction is someone more likely to pass, etc etc very minor stuff is used nowadays.

 

[pmcg76]

They run about 10 kilometres in one game.



Skill? Quarterback throwing the ball. Brain? No one. Technique? For what?



You seem to know nothing about football. The skills needed in different positions vary a LOT and if a player is taken from his usual position and put somewhere else he is likely to suck.
And they train a lot too. Most of the pro's train 3 times a day. And football has really taken tactical coaching to the extreme. Nowadays coaches have assistans who count percentages for every corner kick possibility, which foot is the opponents forwards more likely to use, which direction is someone more likely to pass, etc etc very minor stuff is used nowadays.

Thanks for correcting me on distance covered by soccer players, I thought 5km seemed a little short. Thats why EPO was useful for Juventus in the 90s.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I think your dead right on that one but you do realise you are in the minority on this apart from the US of course.

... yes i know. I never said Football is a very popular sport outside USA. I have no problem with that. And it´s good: NFL Security can concentrate on Vegas and US-Mobs solely, while soccer lost the fight against fixing completly (just think of the chinese betting syndicates). That´s another part of the farce called soccer.

Please dont compare what you experienced compared to an NFL player unless you played in the Bundesliga, I think its being naive to suggest footballers train for 2 hours a day, lots of team have double training sessions. You are doing soccer players a disservice to suggest they only need endurance, one strong leg & speed, they need loads of skills and they dont need to memorise plays, they have to do it on the spot which is more difficult than playing some pre-planned move. When things are pre-planned, its the coach that decides the moves so everything is pre-programmed. Players dont have to think for themselves other than QB.

I followed soccer closely until the mid 90s and some after. Many top players told openly that they train(ed) 2 hours a day.
Which are the other skills? Ok i missed the "Header"... but then? In Germany we even had track converted national team players (for example Briegel, Jähnig). Can you name one sucsessful sprinter making it somewhat big in the NFL other than Bob Hayes and Renaldo Nehemiah?
What´s wrong about pre-planned plays? If the soccer coaches would just learn a bit from Football, they could make much better free kicks than just shooting over the Defense-Wall.
Players don´t have to think? Wao. You really know football? Zone-Blitzing schemes, gap blocking, cover-2, timed passing patterns (what would you think how good Warner would have looked if Bruce and Holt didn´t use their brains and Timmerman didn´t block the right guys upfront), etc., etc...

Come on, Steelers or Colts were not surprises, that is rubbish right there. Both teams had been regularly reaching the play-offs before they won. I know enought about NFL that you just cannot BS me. And who were the last team to win an international competition by coincidence in soccer. The top teams usually come out on top as well.

What? The Colts just qualified as a WC-Team, they had to win 3 games to reach the SB. And that year they had the worst rushing defense in NFL-History. If that SB was no surprise...
Pitt the year before was No. 6 Seed in AFC. Even more difficult road to the SB than Indy. I don´t call that a surprise but a sensation.

Greece EC 2004, Italy WC 2006, Spain EC 2008 etc. etc. And that´s only the biggest competitions. Luckily you don´t have soccer playoffs in league games. Otherwise Birmingham might win the premier league.

I think the US wanted to distinguish themselves separately from England so invented their own sports which they turned into marketing, money making operations with a little bit of sport in between. The same reason Ireland has Gaelic games and Australia has Aussie rules without the money making aspect.

Big BS!! Pro Football was unpopular in the beginnings. College Ball was the thing. Big-Money-NFL just started in the 60s, after 40 years of existence (& folding teams, & troubles with competition from WFL, AAFC, AFL).

I find anyone who decribes NFL as more exciting than soccer as crazy. A game that stops every 30 seconds and takes numerous time-outs,two minute warnings etc during play can hardly be described as riveting either, three hours to play 60mins, seriously.

Don´t go personal. But if you like it. Here´s the payback: Anyone who describes soccer as more exiting than Football don´t really understand Football and sports competition in general.
But again, a little reminder for you: Actual playing time is 10 minutes, the rest is huddling, ball spotting, pre snap actions... That helps your points... but no, soccer has no action at all in 90+ minutes.

Surely you saw the Schalke-Inter game last night, 7 goals, a shock defeat of the reigning champions on their own turf by inferior competition. That first goal by Stankovic alone was amazing. How that could be described as inferior to NFL is beyond me.

No i never watched a soccer game since the farce called FIFA-WC 2010. Enough is enough...
But how about the GB-ARZ 51-45 OT-Thriller or the ARZ-PIT-SB or the GB-CHI slugfest or ... or ... or

And of course the exact same exists in the US where soccer has a big sub-culture which never existed 20 years ago,Soccer has gained far more ground in the US than American football has gained anywhere so surely that says it all really.

Same in germany where we have a cute Football fan culture. For a game unknown until the mid 80s.

With soccer the one element missing is that because players do not use their hands (sans keeper), it removes a large element from the athlete's skill as a human being.

Thanks ... Great point, why o why i didn´t bring that up?

Agree those types of stages are boring for the most part, but the final minute is exciting, and usually the scenery is terrific!

Absolutely right... That´s what i also explained some posts ago. That´s why even flat stages are more exiting than 90 minutes of soccer.

He said "decided by penalty kicks". Or implied similar with red cards. I don't think he was commenting on a very close, well played game that ends up 1-0.

Right, again... And there are wayyy too much of those obscure 1-0 games.

The Colts were not a surprise SB winner in XLI. The Steelers were a little bit in SB XLas they were a #6 seed, but that's also the one (and only) SB where the officials affected the outcome the game with bad calls (and admitted it later). The Saints were a bit of a surprise over the Colts to some. A great many people were surprised the Giants beat the Patriots in SB XLII, and many think if they played again a week later the Patriots would have won. But hey, that's the way it goes sometimes.

Sorry you are wrong here. The Colts where No. 4 seed. The big favourites were the 14-2 Chargers.
I wouldn´t call a team (Saints) starting 13-0 a surprise winner. But it was a great season; the absolute best teams met in the SB. GB this year could be called a surprise too, but if you dig deeper into the numbers, you see they were underachieving during the RS. They had a super effiecient passing offense and defense. Those numbers correlate best with winners since the introduction of the forward pass.
Otherwise great post.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Skill? Quarterback throwing the ball. Brain? No one. Technique? For what?

You seem to know nothing about football. The skills needed in different positions vary a LOT and if a player is taken from his usual position and put somewhere else he is likely to suck.
And they train a lot too. Most of the pro's train 3 times a day. And football has really taken tactical coaching to the extreme. Nowadays coaches have assistans who count percentages for every corner kick possibility, which foot is the opponents forwards more likely to use, which direction is someone more likely to pass, etc etc very minor stuff is used nowadays.

Did you ever throw a non-wobbling tight spiraled football for at least 40 yards? I am not guessing here, but i am sure you know absolute nothing about skills and technique in sports and you can´t throw a football deeper than 10 yards. And i don´t even started about accuracy or playbooks or defense readings or the pressure to excel 100% perfectly in 2 seconds reaction time. Your post really qualified you as "Bo knows football, but i don´t".
Please stick with cycling only.

 

[Nastyy]

Did you ever throw a non-wobbling tight spiraled football for at least 40 yards? I am not guessing here, but i am sure you know absolute nothing about skills and technique in sports and you can´t throw a football deeper than 10 yards. And i don´t even started about accuracy or playbooks or defense readings or the pressure to excel 100% perfectly in 2 seconds reaction time. Your post really qualified you as "Bo knows football, but i don´t".
Please stick with cycling only.

What has my throwing skills got anything to do with this? I can't throw but bet you can't kick or dribble as well as I do. Football (soccer) players kick inch accurate passes for longer distances than american football players do and have less time to do it. If you think that in football you can just stand with the ball and think what to do you're wrong. When you're attacking there's one or two players on you when you get the ball. Obviously you think that american football is the only sport with "playbook" but in fact football is far more tactical even though the players actually think for themselves and know how to improvise.

And talking 'bout pressure. There's nothing like a penalty shoot out in a WC final. The whole world is watching and at stake is the world's most wanted trophy. Nothing will ever beat that when it comes to pressure in sports performances.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

What has my throwing skills got anything to do with this? I can't throw but bet you can't kick or dribble as well as I do. Football (soccer) players kick inch accurate passes for longer distances than american football players do and have less time to do it. If you think that in football you can just stand with the ball and think what to do you're wrong. When you're attacking there's one or two players on you when you get the ball. Obviously you think that american football is the only sport with "playbook" but in fact football is far more tactical even though the players actually think for themselves and know how to improvise.

And talking 'bout pressure. There's nothing like a penalty shoot out in a WC final. The whole world is watching and at stake is the world's most wanted trophy. Nothing will ever beat that when it comes to pressure in sports performances.

Basically you said Football-Players don´t need a brain. That´s black and white trash talk...
At least this post of yours had some content. So let me explain: Yes i can kick, played the game since i can think until the mid-80s. My coach was very satisfied with my technique but not with my endurance. Anyway to your points. I never said soccer players have no talent or skills. League players are the top of the top of the top. Same in cycling, football, track, snooker and so on. But to say soccer players are more skilled than football players is lunatic. Maybe soccer players can pinpoint pass, but the same goes with NFL-QBs under pressure, Snooker pros potting 30 balls in a row (very boring to watch) or pitchers throwing curveballs on the edge of the strike zone. The problem i have with soccer is the nature of the game: too much referee influence, strange rules (red cards, offsides, no accurate timing), boring games, too much cheating (diving for free kicks, time shaving pretenting injuries), crazy fans fighting, big time corruption, too much betting scandals. And to say soccer has more tactics than football is a reach. I mean we had Erich Ribbeck as national coach (!) when his players openly said he had no idea of tactics. Either soccer has changed in warp time the last ten years or you talk about a different sport.
Soccer players have no different pressure situations than Kirk Gibson with 2 strikes in the 9th inning of a WS or Big Ben needing a TD-Pass with 40 secs to go in a SB or Dennis Taylor needing to pot black in the 35th frame of a WC-Final. There is no "special soccer pressure". It´s simply not existing.

 

[pmcg76]

... yes i know. I never said Football is a very popular sport outside USA. I have no problem with that. And it´s good: NFL Security can concentrate on Vegas and US-Mobs solely, while soccer lost the fight against fixing completly (just think of the chinese betting syndicates). That´s another part of the farce called soccer.



I followed soccer closely until the mid 90s and some after. Many top players told openly that they train(ed) 2 hours a day.
Which are the other skills? Ok i missed the "Header"... but then? In Germany we even had track converted national team players (for example Briegel, Jähnig). Can you name one sucsessful sprinter making it somewhat big in the NFL other than Bob Hayes and Renaldo Nehemiah?
What´s wrong about pre-planned plays? If the soccer coaches would just learn a bit from Football, they could make much better free kicks than just shooting over the Defense-Wall.
Players don´t have to think? Wao. You really know football? Zone-Blitzing schemes, gap blocking, cover-2, timed passing patterns (what would you think how good Warner would have looked if Bruce and Holt didn´t use their brains and Timmerman didn´t block the right guys upfront), etc., etc...



What? The Colts just qualified as a WC-Team, they had to win 3 games to reach the SB. And that year they had the worst rushing defense in NFL-History. If that SB was no surprise...
Pitt the year before was No. 6 Seed in AFC. Even more difficult road to the SB than Indy. I don´t call that a surprise but a sensation.

Greece EC 2004, Italy WC 2006, Spain EC 2008 etc. etc. And that´s only the biggest competitions. Luckily you don´t have soccer playoffs in league games. Otherwise Birmingham might win the premier league.




Big BS!! Pro Football was unpopular in the beginnings. College Ball was the thing. Big-Money-NFL just started in the 60s, after 40 years of existence (& folding teams, & troubles with competition from WFL, AAFC, AFL).



Don´t go personal. But if you like it. Here´s the payback: Anyone who describes soccer as more exiting than Football don´t really understand Football and sports competition in general.
But again, a little reminder for you: Actual playing time is 10 minutes, the rest is huddling, ball spotting, pre snap actions... That helps your points... but no, soccer has no action at all in 90+ minutes.



No i never watched a soccer game since the farce called FIFA-WC 2010. Enough is enough...
But how about the GB-ARZ 51-45 OT-Thriller or the ARZ-PIT-SB or the GB-CHI slugfest or ... or ... or



Same in germany where we have a cute Football fan culture. For a game unknown until the mid 80s.



Thanks ... Great point, why o why i didn´t bring that up?



Absolutely right... That´s what i also explained some posts ago. That´s why even flat stages are more exiting than 90 minutes of soccer.



Right, again... And there are wayyy too much of those obscure 1-0 games.



Sorry you are wrong here. The Colts where No. 4 seed. The big favourites were the 14-2 Chargers.
I wouldn´t call a team (Saints) starting 13-0 a surprise winner. But it was a great season; the absolute best teams met in the SB. GB this year could be called a surprise too, but if you dig deeper into the numbers, you see they were underachieving during the RS. They had a super effiecient passing offense and defense. Those numbers correlate best with winners since the introduction of the forward pass.
Otherwise great post.

You know we can go back and forth about this forever but you really belittle soocer players. You say nothing happens in soccer yet in two nights of Champions league, 4 games there has been 18 goals, yeah lots of obscure 1-0s.

Its clear you hate soccer so there is no point continuing with this, I dont hate American football but I just dont thinks its anywhere near as exciting as soccer. As I said I actually prefer Gaelic Sports and I would put rugby on a par with soccer with NFL at a lower level. I would never say nothing happens in NFL.

The one thing you have singularly failed to answer however is why American football is not popular at all outside the US and then how is Soccer the most popular sport in the world. Are you saying most of the people in the world are incorrect in their choice of favourite sport. If American football is so superior, then clearly it will easily outdo soccer in popularity terms.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You know we can go back and forth about this forever but you really belittle soocer players. You say nothing happens in soccer yet in two nights of Champions league, 4 games there has been 18 goals, yeah lots of obscure 1-0s.

Its clear you hate soccer so there is no point continuing with this, I dont hate American football but I just dont thinks its anywhere near as exciting as soccer. As I said I actually prefer Gaelic Sports and I would put rugby on a par with soccer with NFL at a lower level. I would never say nothing happens in NFL.

The one thing you have singularly failed to answer however is why American football is not popular at all outside the US and then how is Soccer the most popular sport in the world. Are you saying most of the people in the world are incorrect in their choice of favourite sport. If American football is so superior, then clearly it will easily outdo soccer in popularity terms.

Honestly i wanted to stir things up a little since you used the same tactics
Yes there were great games in soccer too. The best ever might have been Germany-France 1982. But even this great game didn´t go without a big blunder by the refs. They completley messed up on Fischers header in overtime.
I said some posts (and days ago) i wish i had known earlier about gaelic football, hurling or Aussie Rules Football. It looks great on youtube. I am very open to new things. And that brings me to the point of the (un)popularity of Football outside the US. People stick with the things they know since birth but are very conservative to new things. I used a german saying for that. Maybe that´s the reason you missed it. The other point is clear: The rules seem too strange to learn. At least that´s my experience with germans. If people invest one Day with me, they see the easiness and beauty of football. Way easier than indirect offsides in soccer.

 

[pmcg76]

Honestly i wanted to stir things up a little since you used the same tactics
Yes there were great games in soccer too. The best ever might have been Germany-France 1982. But even this great game didn´t go without a big blunder by the refs. They completley messed up on Fischers header in overtime.
I said some posts (and days ago) i wish i had known earlier about gaelic football, hurling or Aussie Rules Football. It looks great on youtube. I am very open to new things. And that brings me to the point of the (un)popularity of Football outside the US. People stick with the things they know since birth but are very conservative to new things. I used a german saying for that. Maybe that´s the reason you missed it. The other point is clear: The rules seem too strange to learn. At least that´s my experience with germans. If people invest one Day with me, they see the easiness and beauty of football. Way easier than indirect offsides in soccer.

Ha, no worries, I enjoy a good argument but we were going in circles. I agree that we like what we grow up with but I have followed various sports. Been lucky enough to grow up with Gaelic games in Ireland, and having lived in US & Australia I got to experience their sports. NFL is by far my favourite US sport, I went to a few MLB games but found them incredibly boring. Hockey games are fun and I have yet to make it to a Basketball game.

In Oz, I really enjoyed Aussie rules, maybe because it is similar to Gaelic football, rugby league is too repetitive, I already liked Rugby union, cricket is still awful. I give every sport a chance so I base everything on my experiences.

In terms of soccer I have been to games in pretty much all the major leagues in Europe apart from the Bundesliga and also in Brazil and Argentina where the best atmosphere of any sport is to be had. Some games were awful, some were ok, some were great. Its the same regardless of the sport.

My late friend tried to covert many people to American football but was usually unsuccessful, for most people, there are just too many stoppages and breaks to be of interest. It doesnt help when the showpiece game lasts 4 hours, I made it my business to see the superbowl this year even though I was in Montevideo, Uruguay. It wasnt a great game but just went on and on, I had lost interest long before the finish. Happens in certain soccer games also but they dont last 3-4 hours.

At the end of the day, I will always take soccer over American football and the irony is when I lived in the US, I got the impression that most people preferred college football over the NFL. I dont think soocer will ever lose its position as the No 1 global sport as no sport is way superior than football.

 

[The Hitch]

At the end of the day, I will always take soccer over American football and the irony is when I lived in the US, I got the impression that most people preferred college football over the NFL. I dont think soocer will ever lose its position as the No 1 global sport as no sport is way superior than football.

Soccer is only the number 1 sport because people will watch what you tell them to watch. In Korea the most popular athlete is a figure skater even though here most people think figure skating is the most boring sport.

In Us they dont choose NFL because they find it exciting. Its because thats how they grow up.

As the bible and several other ancient texts say, Give me the child for the first 6 years and i will give you the man.

Similarly europeans and South Americans grow up around football. If cricket ( as sport many europeans believe to be extremely boring) was the number 1 sport in South America no one would give two ***s about the football world cup.

Just like it is in the Asian subcontinent.

You try to portray as soccer as being somehow superior to other sports, as if children were shown videos of equal lenghts of time and asked to choose the sport they will follow for life. In fact its mostly tied to believing something is important.

How comes lower league games get such small tv viewership figures. They are often more exciting, with 5-4 scores, red cards etc. Answer- because their players dont appear in tabloids every day, and arent household names. SO people dont really care what happens. But put Fernando Torres at the front of every newspaper (regardless of whether there is real news or not) for a week, and people will flock to the nearest tv screen to watch his first appearance.

I used to love every football game i saw because it felt important to me. Now i find most games very boring. I just watched the Chelsea Man UTD game in about 30 minutes after fast forwading every time the ball was not in someones penalty area and for the most part it was just passed around midfield.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Agree, we go in circles...
I really got deep into football since the mid/late 80s. My american friends call me "The Professor". They wonder how a german can study the history of "their game" and know more about it. Actually i swing from Giro to TdF to Vuelta and then 6 months of "football madness".
I never played league ball coz to skinny, so i choose pitching in organized baseball (as you see i like those technique sports, am not in love with endurance). But the most fun i had in backyard football games. Sacking a QB, catching a ball just inbounds or throwing a beautiful spiral... all this gave me more than any strikeouts thrown or big hits in baseball or saving a penalty kick.
You are right here: Baseball games are boring to watch, but the game itself is cute. Throwing a curveball and wondering how in the world of physics is that possible is a wonderful feeling. Unlucky my back problems stopped me playing. That really hurts up today.
I like Hockey, but really have problems to follow the puck. I still wonder how canadiens solve this problem while watching.
Never was into rugby. This game really misses the forward pass
Basketball? I think Alpe said it all. Plus, i think that game is for women... real men throw a ball in a natural way. I know i am sarcastic here.

I think the stoppages of football shy away a lot of people, yet they don´t realize the hidden stoppages of Soccer (net time ball in play is around 50 mins, but that doesn´t mean that there is 50 mins action)

Personally i would have no problem if a NFL-Game takes 6 hours, the more beer i can drink. Just kidding... I enjoyed the SB: First it seemed GB is running away, then Pitt came back, then Rodgers took over again. Never boring, good game, but sure not a classic like ARZ-PIT two years ago or the 99-Rams-Titans-SB.
I think it´s ok if Football doesn´t get too big, even tough greedy owners try the best to let it happen.

Ha, no worries, I enjoy a good argument but we were going in circles. I agree that we like what we grow up with but I have followed various sports. Been lucky enough to grow up with Gaelic games in Ireland, and having lived in US & Australia I got to experience their sports. NFL is by far my favourite US sport, I went to a few MLB games but found them incredibly boring. Hockey games are fun and I have yet to make it to a Basketball game.

In Oz, I really enjoyed Aussie rules, maybe because it is similar to Gaelic football, rugby league is too repetitive, I already liked Rugby union, cricket is still awful. I give every sport a chance so I base everything on my experiences.

In terms of soccer I have been to games in pretty much all the major leagues in Europe apart from the Bundesliga and also in Brazil and Argentina where the best atmosphere of any sport is to be had. Some games were awful, some were ok, some were great. Its the same regardless of the sport.

My late friend tried to covert many people to American football but was usually unsuccessful, for most people, there are just too many stoppages and breaks to be of interest. It doesnt help when the showpiece game lasts 4 hours, I made it my business to see the superbowl this year even though I was in Montevideo, Uruguay. It wasnt a great game but just went on and on, I had lost interest long before the finish. Happens in certain soccer games also but they dont last 3-4 hours.

At the end of the day, I will always take soccer over American football and the irony is when I lived in the US, I got the impression that most people preferred college football over the NFL. I dont think soocer will ever lose its position as the No 1 global sport as no sport is way superior than football.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Soccer is only the number 1 sport because people will watch what you tell them to watch. In Korea the most popular athlete is a figure skater even though here most people think figure skating is the most boring sport.

In Us they dont choose NFL because they find it exciting. Its because thats how they grow up.

As the bible and several other ancient texts say, Give me the child for the first 6 years and i will give you the man.

Similarly europeans and South Americans grow up around football. If cricket ( as sport many europeans believe to be extremely boring) was the number 1 sport in South America no one would give two ***s about the football world cup.

Just like it is in the Asian subcontinent.

You try to portray as soccer as being somehow superior to other sports, as if children were shown videos of equal lenghts of time and asked to choose the sport they will follow for life. In fact its mostly tied to believing something is important.

How comes lower league games get such small tv viewership figures. They are often more exciting, with 5-4 scores, red cards etc. Answer- because their players dont appear in tabloids every day, and arent household names. SO people dont really care what happens. But put Fernando Torres at the front of every newspaper (regardless of whether there is real news or not) for a week, and people will flock to the nearest tv screen to watch his first appearance.

I used to love every football game i saw because it felt important to me. Now i find most games very boring. I just watched the Chelsea Man UTD game in about 30 minutes after fast forwading every time the ball was not in someones penalty area and for the most part it was just passed around midfield.

Great post, especially about the bible. I think pmc and i said the same in different words. So we all agree here.

But in the US they can choose from birth on between NFL, MLB, NBA. So there must be a reason that 1 Million play high school football despite the known fact that a catastrophic injury can happen any time. And NFL-Football by far is No.-1-TV-Sport. I think americans see the exitment of football. They even converted a die hard soccer player and fan some 25 years ago

 

[Nastyy]

The problem i have with soccer is the nature of the game: too much referee influence, strange rules (red cards, offsides, no accurate timing), boring games, too much cheating (diving for free kicks, time shaving pretenting injuries), crazy fans fighting, big time corruption, too much betting scandals. And to say soccer has more tactics than football is a reach. I mean we had Erich Ribbeck as national coach (!) when his players openly said he had no idea of tactics. Either soccer has changed in warp time the last ten years or you talk about a different sport.
Soccer players have no different pressure situations than Kirk Gibson with 2 strikes in the 9th inning of a WS or Big Ben needing a TD-Pass with 40 secs to go in a SB or Dennis Taylor needing to pot black in the 35th frame of a WC-Final. There is no "special soccer pressure". It´s simply not existing.

Offside is one of the key rules in football, without it the games would be boring. And of course you need red cards,when someone violates the rules you need to send him out. Accurate timing is not needed because the game lasts for 90 minutes + stoppage time.

Agree about cheating, but that's not footballs fault. If Spaniards and Italians played american football they would do the same there, it's a cultural thing. In England a guy who dives is considered as a wuss and in Spain they praise him for being wise enough to get a freekick or a penalty. It's a cultural thing.

There's fighting amongst the fans because they're so passionate. I'm okay with little fighting between rival clubs fans. But it sometimes get a bit too crazy, not many years ago Marseille fan killed an Atletico fan in Madrid after UEFA Cup game, after that Atletico fans were too afraid to come to the return leg in Marseille. But the fighting etc just goes to show how crazy people go over football, like Bill Shankly once said "Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that." That's how most people feel about football when it comes to their favorite team. And for me too almost when I'm watching France's games, if the referee makes a bad decision in an important match it makes you want to smack the referee in the face.

And football has changed a lot from the 90's. In the 90's most English teams had a tall, strong forward and they played a long ball to him. Nowadays if you'd play with that kind of tactic you would lose 5-0. And I think Germany didn't win too many games during Ribbeck's time, he was an old school coach in an era when football was taking huge steps forward. Coaches like Benitez and Mourinho have really taken coaching to a whole new level. Everything is really calculated. They even do math on which is the most succesful tactic in a freekick or a cornerkick, they do hundreds of different scenarios and see which is most likely to succeed. Nothing is random as it may have been in the 90's.

I don't have problem with you praising american football and their skills but saying that they're superior to footballers is just nonsense. And there is no special football pressure but it just doesn't get tougher than that what I linked.

 

[pmcg76]

Soccer is only the number 1 sport because people will watch what you tell them to watch. In Korea the most popular athlete is a figure skater even though here most people think figure skating is the most boring sport.

In Us they dont choose NFL because they find it exciting. Its because thats how they grow up.

As the bible and several other ancient texts say, Give me the child for the first 6 years and i will give you the man.

Similarly europeans and South Americans grow up around football. If cricket ( as sport many europeans believe to be extremely boring) was the number 1 sport in South America no one would give two ***s about the football world cup.

Just like it is in the Asian subcontinent.

You try to portray as soccer as being somehow superior to other sports, as if children were shown videos of equal lenghts of time and asked to choose the sport they will follow for life. In fact its mostly tied to believing something is important.

How comes lower league games get such small tv viewership figures. They are often more exciting, with 5-4 scores, red cards etc. Answer- because their players dont appear in tabloids every day, and arent household names. SO people dont really care what happens. But put Fernando Torres at the front of every newspaper (regardless of whether there is real news or not) for a week, and people will flock to the nearest tv screen to watch his first appearance.

I used to love every football game i saw because it felt important to me. Now i find most games very boring. I just watched the Chelsea Man UTD game in about 30 minutes after fast forwading every time the ball was not in someones penalty area and for the most part it was just passed around midfield.

I agree that people usually like what they grow up and every kid in Europe or South America grows up with soccer whilst in North America it was American football. I definitely dont have the interest in football I once did but I still appreciate a good game of soccer. You mentioned Man Utd v Chelsea last night which wasnt a great game but the other three games were much better. Schalke v Inter was a classic. There is no sport where every game or event is exciting and cycling is the classic example.

Soccer has grown in countries where it was not the number 1 sport, for example in Japan, baseball was number 1 but now its soccer, likewise in Venezuela. Soccer has grown in the US and Australia where previously they had been nothing sports and up against their own popular sports. Is this because they have been told to watch soccer, I dont know. Surely there has to be more than that.

Hitch, is their any other team sports you would consider as more exciting than soccer. Its like people who say a certian music band is crap but offer no alternative of their own. You can criticise something but unless you offer a better alternative its pointless. I gave every sport a chance and I like what I enjoyed the most, cycling, gaelic games, soccer, rugby, aussie rules & american football.

In terms of all-round ability, I would put Gaelic football and Aussie rules ahead of most, in these sports, you need fitness, speed, strength, stamina, intelligence and use both hands and feet for catching and kicking as well as other skills. Every player needs the same basic skill set regardless of position.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Round and round we go. So I think I'll have a little fun with the topic. Let's try improving some sports based on why we don't follow it. For example:

One of my other "favorite" things about soccer is the way players flop around. Two guys will bump into one another and one of them will go to the ground writhing in pain like he just had a blade of hot steel driven into his knee cap. But the best part is yet to come. When the referee doesn't buy it, the guy is miraculously healed, back on his feet like nothing happened! So I have a solution: Soccer should allow much more contact. Sort of like Rugby, but without using your hands. That would be cool!

 

[The Hitch]

Agree about cheating, but that's not footballs fault. If Spaniards and Italians played american football they would do the same there, it's a cultural thing. In England a guy who dives is considered as a wuss and in Spain they praise him for being wise enough to get a freekick or a penalty. It's a cultural thing.

Yes it is footballs fault. And far from only Spaniards and Italians. In England no one complains when Gerrard or Terry dive. Unless its against their team. With Steven Gerrard there is an anthology of dives some of them pathetic even, but ask a Liverpool fan and they will claim he was tripped every time or slipped or something.

The problem is that football does nothing to deter players from cheating. A potential and unlikely yellow card is a risk worth taking.

Football had the chance in 2008 (i think it was) when after the match they gave Eduardo a 2 match ban for diving. A week later they took back the ban telling the world of football that if you can con the referee into giving you something, then you deserve it. Nowadays if someone dives or tricks the referee the perception is that they are doing their job.


Like with their fierce anti technology position, FIFA and co decide that the money made from weeks of tv shows and newspaper articles about controversial decisions, is not something they are willing to give up. So diving can not be banned because what else would Britains newspapers have to talk about for a week?

And it is footballs fault. If they wanted to stop cheating they could. They could punish footballers after the match for hanfdballs, lies etc. If like Fabiano at the World cup the referee asks if you hand balled it, and you lie to his face, throw him from the tournament. A player gets touched in the face and goes down like hes been shot, deduct his team points and ban him for 3 games. A player is shown to have dived, give him a lenghty ban.

Then well see how many players cheat.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Soccer is only the number 1 sport because people will watch what you tell them to watch. In Korea the most popular athlete is a figure skater even though here most people think figure skating is the most boring sport.

In Us they dont choose NFL because they find it exciting. Its because thats how they grow up.

As the bible and several other ancient texts say, Give me the child for the first 6 years and i will give you the man.

Similarly europeans and South Americans grow up around football. If cricket ( as sport many europeans believe to be extremely boring) was the number 1 sport in South America no one would give two ***s about the football world cup.

Just like it is in the Asian subcontinent.

You try to portray as soccer as being somehow superior to other sports, as if children were shown videos of equal lenghts of time and asked to choose the sport they will follow for life. In fact its mostly tied to believing something is important.

How comes lower league games get such small tv viewership figures. They are often more exciting, with 5-4 scores, red cards etc. Answer- because their players dont appear in tabloids every day, and arent household names. SO people dont really care what happens. But put Fernando Torres at the front of every newspaper (regardless of whether there is real news or not) for a week, and people will flock to the nearest tv screen to watch his first appearance.

I follow what you're saying.

But what's also relevant: soccer is one of the easiest sports to play yourself. You don't need a hoop to shoot through, you don't need a bat to swing with, you don't need protection to play it.
Children play it from the moment they can walk properly, youth plays it at school, after school, in the city, on the countryside.You can play it with 2, you can play it with 20.

I do think this is one of the reasons why soccer is the number one sport in the world.

I used to love every football game i saw because it felt important to me. Now i find most games very boring. I just watched the Chelsea Man UTD game in about 30 minutes after fast forwading every time the ball was not in someones penalty area and for the most part it was just passed around midfield.

That's too bad for you. It's impossible to still enjoy a match when you watch it like this...

 

[The Hitch]

That's too bad for you. It's impossible to still enjoy a match when you watch it like this...

Try watching France vs Romania from Euro 2008

The point is you need the match to have some sort of meaning for it to be enjoyable, unless theres a lot of skill and chances in it.

If the players are just passsing the ball around and you dont care which multi national corporation (what Man Utd and Chelse by now are) and which bunch of spoiled children (the players) win, then them passing the ball around the midfield for 90 minutes just isnt going to be exciting regardless of if you watch the whole thing or a condensed version

llow what you're saying.

But what's also relevant: soccer is one of the easiest sports to play yourself. You don't need a hoop to shoot through, you don't need a bat to swing with, you don't need protection to play it.
Children play it from the moment they can walk properly, youth plays it at school, after school, in the city, on the countryside.You can play it with 2, you can play it with 20.

I do think this is one of the reasons why soccer is the number one sport in the world.

Correct but the corolation between playing football and watching it isnt as strong as you think. The majority of football fans (in this country anyway) dont play football at all.

For me playing football is the most fun activity imaginable. I play it on average 3 times a week, and Im always the last person to leave.

One of my biggest regrets in life is that I was only introduced to playing football when i was 8 years old, and i feel I could have been so much better had i started at 3 or 4.

And yet I have very little interest in football on tv. I love football on the field but absolutely despise everything the proffesional game represents (idolatry, corruption, detroying journalism etc etc etc)

Just like most people who ride bycicles in this world have absolutely no idea who Alberto Contador is

 

[dungan123]

Re:

Why are they wearing converse shoes?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

(College) football and jump ball. I guess that fits for NCAA football!?

I know, some soccer heinis tried to hijack it. But hey, it still fits...