Quit slinging mud at Grappe, you dolts! He's merely stating facts. That's it! He's not adding; "therefore, I conclude The Dawg is squeaky clean", he's just stating facts. There is no endorsement - just f-in facts!
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131313 said:Well, according to Hunter Allen, his FTP is now 10% higher than that.
Ruby60 said:What strikes me as interesting on the power profile is the average and max heart rates. Seems to me that he wasn't trying very hard.. I mean a Max HR of 169.
acoggan said:1. In W/kg, not W.
Grappe said:It shows, for example, a significant and normal power reduction of 60 watts (0.88 w/kg) between twenty and sixty minutes efforts.
Ferminal said:Froome has weighed 68kg every day for 2 years...
acoggan said:Fatigue suppresses both submaximal and maximal heart rates.
Tyler'sTwin said:It's quite obvious that Grappe has not seen anything close to 6.5 W/kg for 1h because that would make his 20 min power impossibly high when you add the 60 watts (7.38 W/kg).
vrusimov said:I have had times when I could barely get my heart rate to 150-155 in training but producing 410-420W from what looks like about 140-142 bpm average in the first 20 min looks weird, and that is not meant to castigate the nature of the data. His cardiac output seems substantially reduced under such conditions. Days I have ridden with a heart rate that would not rise out of the 150's were not good ones.
He then commented on the accusations that have been made against Lance Armstrong regarding 'impossible' power outputs. "Certain people say silly things. When we are told that a rider is not able to put out 420 - 430 Watts in a time trial, that is false. Not so long ago, one of the riders with whom I was involved climbed Mont Faron at a power of 400 Watts for 20 minutes, and he is far from being Armstrong. Consequently, I am not astonished that Armstrong or others can produce 460 or 470 Watts on a mountain. It is not impossible."
In addition, a cadence of 80-90 rpm to produce this power on climbs is also not impossible, according to Grappe. "It is the result of many days of hard work. With what has happened in the past 10 years, many riders are using bigger gear ratios. Some have lost the suppleness, i.e. they are not able to utilise higher pedalling frequencies...a high pedalling frequency makes it possible to relieve the muscles," said Grappe who expressed his annoyance of people's poor analysis of the data
Ruby60 said:So SV increases? How, by increasing HR? Or are you saying the HR slows allowing the Atria and Ventricles to fill more completely?
Ruby60 said:AC - Granted that there is some fatigue but this was "only" stage 10. I don't know what the previous days were like.. maybe even a rest day,
If I use the most rudimentary formula from determing a max heart rate (220-age), I get a max HR of 192. Now I'd bet that his actual Max HR is much higher, after all, he is an endurance trained athlete...200bpm?
Ruby60 said:So he decreased his max HR by 12-15% after just 10 days?
What would you think his max HR would be after 20 days?
All hypothetical of course.
Sky had previously declined to release the data to the press. According to Grappe, Froome's data was consistent from the 2011 season through 2013. Often times, doping will create a spike in a rider's performance. But Grappe said in Thursday's l'Equipe report that Froome's consistent power did not raise red flags.
Froome praised Brailsford for releasing the data. "I'm happy to hear their findings and to hear their take on it," Froome said. "Basically backing us up to say these performances are very good strong, clean performances."
acoggan said:I've had days (TTs) like that as well, yet my power has been unimpaired. That doesn't necessarily mean that cardiac output is reduced, however, since SV may very well increase to compensate.
acoggan said:I thought Grappe only analyzed 18 days' worth of data?
Ferminal said:So Hunter Allen who claims the 10% increase in W/kg is actually based on him weighing 5kg heavier in the first point even though he has always raced at exactly the same weight? Very misleading if that is the case.
momotaro said:This is not the first time we have seen Froome's very low exertional heart rates. He has posted this before. It does seem very very low. Of course, this does not prove or disprove doping. It is just very......interesting.
Someone should try to do an estimations on his SV based on power output, and heart rate. I think we know enough to give a reasonable estimate. He must have incredible ventricular chamber size, or incredible myocardial contractility.
Can I have a cardiac echo or better yet an exercise MUGA scan?
Not implying doping or anything. I just cant explain such a low heart rate at very high workloads unless a) very very high SV, or b) somehow his muscles are extracting way more oxygen than anyone else. c) He is not trying very hard.
acoggan said:??
Hunter hasn't claimed any increase, He has only estimated Froome's current FTP as 440-460 W.
acoggan said:I've had days (TTs) like that as well, yet my power has been unimpaired. That doesn't necessarily mean that cardiac output is reduced, however, since SV may very well increase to compensate.
acoggan said:1. In W/kg, not W.
2. You're assuming that Froome was able to TT at 100% of his FTP during the 2nd or 3rd week (whichever it was) of a GT. Isn't that stance contrary to the widespread belief that clean riders will always exhibit a decline in power throught the race due to fatigue?
ETA: It should also be noted that although Froome averaged "only" 405 W, the FTP entered into the software must have been 420-425 W (since the IF was 0.96). At 68 kg, that's 6.2 W/kg...which is w/in 5% of the 6.5 W/kg value Hunter stated as the new "top rung" (although in fact that rung isn't new this year).