Frank schleck

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noddy69 said:
We are not talking about your shakes or anything as simple as that. These guys have doctors that they use ,they know the rules...so yes it is bloody easy to follow when your paid damn well to follow it.

Wait, you seem to be missing the point. I bolded the important part. And keep in mind that a doctor is not a laborant. He must trust the label.

Let's take three "innocent" routes, first the remotely plausible:

1. it was in his supplement (contaminated). He has no way of knowing this unless he tests it first in a lab (rather impractical^^)

A less plausible scenario:

2. It was a misslabeled meicine/contamination of a legit medicin. In this case the doctor has no way of knowing this as all he does is the same as you and me, reading a label.

The more outlandish conspiracy theory:

3. Someone set him up. In this scenario the doctor might fully well be the perp.

Now I certainly don't go for either of those scenario's, nor do I think he doesn't carry responsibility for what he takes. But it's simplyfalse to say that he 100% knows what he swallows... in the end a pill is a black box.

I'm sure he will try to steer his defense in this direction. :rolleyes:
 
Mar 10, 2009
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xipamide for laymen:

Main use Active ingredient Manufacturer
Relieve fluid retention Xipamide Meda Pharmaceuticals


How does it work?
Diurexan tablets contain the active ingredient xipamide, which is a type of medicine known as a thiazide-related diuretic.
Diuretics are sometimes referred to as 'water tablets'. They remove excess fluid from the body by increasing the production of urine.

Diuretics act in the kidneys. They work by causing the kidneys to increase the amount of salts, such as potassium and sodium, that are filtered out of the blood and into the urine. When these salts are filtered out of the blood by the kidneys, they draw water alongside them. As diuretics increase the removal of salts from the blood, they also cause more water to be drawn out of the blood and into the urine.

Removing water from the blood decreases the volume of fluid circulating through the blood vessels. This subsequently decreases the pressure within the blood vessels. Diuretics such as xipamide can therefore be used to lower high blood pressure.

Xipamide is also used to treat conditions where excess fluid has been retained in the body (oedema). For example, in heart failure, the pumping mechanism of the heart is less effective. This can cause fluid to build up in the ankles and the lungs (pulmonary oedema), which makes it difficult to breathe. Xipamide helps the body to remove this excess fluid. Removing fluid from the blood vessels also decreases the pressure within the blood vessels. This makes it easier for a weak heart to pump blood around the body.
Xipamide can also be used to remove excess fluid that accumulates in the body in people with conditions such as kidney disease or cirrhosis of the liver. In liver cirrhosis this fluid may accumulate in the abdomen (ascites) or in the legs (oedema).

What is it used for?
High blood pressure (hypertension).
Excess fluid retention (oedema), for example in heart failure, liver cirrhosis or kidney disease.


How do I take it?
Diurexan tablets can be taken either with or without food.
Diurexan tablets should be swallowed with a drink of water. The number of tablets to be taken daily will vary depending on your symptoms, but the prescribed dose should be taken once daily, in the morning. For the treatment of high blood pressure the usual dose is one tablet every morning.
As diuretics cause your kidneys to produce more urine, you may find that if you take a dose too late in the day that you need to get up in the night to visit the toilet. This is why it is recommended that you take this medicine in the morning. Seek further advice from your doctor or pharmacist.

[...]

Diuretics can sometimes increase blood glucose levels and people with diabetes may therefore need increases in their dose of insulin or antidiabetic tablets while taking this medicine. If you have diabetes you should talk to your doctor about this. You may need to monitor your blood sugar levels more frequently.

Xipamide reduces the ability of the body to remove the medicine lithium, which can cause the level of lithium in the blood to rise too high. If you are taking lithium your lithium level should be checked after you start and stop treatment with this medicine, as well as after any dose changes. Your lithium dose may need adjusting.

The following medicines may reduce the blood pressure lowering effect of this medicine:

corticosteroids, such as dexamethasone or prednisolone
oestrogens, such as those in the contraceptive pill
regular use of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) such as ibuprofen, diclofenac or indomethacin (occasional painkilling doses are unlikely to have a significant effect).

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/heart-and-blood/medicines/diurexan.html

Diuretics cause the kidneys to remove more sodium and water from the body, which helps to relax the blood vessel walls, thereby lowering blood pressure.

By lowering blood pressure, they help lower the risk for heart disease, heart attack, and stroke.

http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/diuretics-for-high-blood-pressure

lower blood pressure, because blood is too thick, because of too high concentration of red blood cells? Isn't that why Indurain woke up at night and went for a walk, so he wouldn't die in his sleep due to thickness of his blood?

EDIT but that doesn't seem to make sense because the product makes you lose even more liquids...

If he didn't take it inadvertently, blood doping perhaps? We don't know how much was found and he was tested on 14 July 2012? Perhaps a remainder of something that happened around the rest day? But then again, nowadays they can perform a transfusion at any time, anywhere. So it might not be connected to the mythical 'rest day refill.'

Since the product is not, as such, on the banned substances list, but is similar in chemical structure to diuretics, he might have used this particular type to avoid detection? Or perhaps he used specifically xipamide, again if he did it intentionally, so he could claim it must have been a a byproduct/contaminated supplement?

I also don't know what the cost difference would be when you compare xipamide to other diuretics.

Could it also be used for weight loss purposes, or recovery, or to mask weight loss products, or recovery products?
 
Jun 25, 2012
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richwagmn said:
How will they do the ole' Shleck one-two now?

So how long before RSNT is dissolved? Cancellara and Fulsang back to Bjarne? Andy to Omega/Pharma? Horner, Jens and Kloden retire?

How long will we see Trek ads with Frank in them?

They will dissolve soon enough, but Cancellara nor Fulgsang, will be back at Riis. That I dare to bet on.
Andy will be tought to perdict, horner and jens will retire, but Kloden might find a new mediocre team.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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HL2037 said:
No no, Fränk is a victim of the Anti Doping Agency's witchhunt - they demand so many urine samples of him that he is forced to take diuretics - and now that's wrong too!

Post of the day.
 
Dec 21, 2010
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TubularBills said:
BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL VOLUME 284 27 FEBRUARY 1982 665:

"Xipamide is a diuretic which has been introduced relatively recently and has found its main use alone or in combination with beta- adrenergic-blocking drugs in the treatment of mild or moderate hypertension.1 2 In a dose of 20 mg it provokes a diuresis equivalent to that following 40 mg frusemide but, because this is achieved over a period of 12 or more hours, it is also potentially useful in the management of chronic left ventricular failure. It is a salicylic-acid derivative which bears a superficial structural resemblance to chlor- thalidone; but whether it acts, like chlor- thalidoneand hydrochlorothiazide,on the distal renal tubule alone or on both the distal tubule and the loop of Henle is a matter of conten- tion.3 Side effects not unexpectedly include mild potassium depletion and uric acid elevation, but in one study a 30% increase in plasma glucose after one year of treatment with xipamide was noted in eight patients with pre- existing diabetes mellitus.' However, so far as we are aware, hyperosmolar non-ketotic diabetes has not been reported previously in association with this drug. Since uncertainty remains about the mode of action of xipamide no contribution may be made from this case to a deeper understanding of the rather obscure pathogenesis of hyperos- molar non-ketotic diabetes following diuretic administration."

I have no idea what any of this means, but maybe there's a doctor in the house... Maserati?

Maybe the bolded section is his reason for using the drug, and the crap performance in Le Tour??
 
Mar 10, 2009
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According to an interview on de avond etappe:

The product is really easy to trace.

The doctor also says:

It's the last product you would need as a cyclist, because you already sweat so much, and you need so many liquids during a race, that this would be a very detrimental product to 'enhance your abilities'
 
May 31, 2010
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TubularBills said:
Why would a diuretic potentially help with this?

"it is also potentially useful in the management of chronic left ventricular failure."

lower blood volume = lower BP = less work for the heart, also helps with oedema which is common in CHF

the left ventricle is the bit that pushes oxygenated blood up the aorta and to the body - thus it is very important.
 
Sep 9, 2010
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Interesting thing that I'm not sure many people have picked up on, is that the Hog flew into Lyon airport on the morning of 10th July - not sure if that adds to, or detracts from the numerous conspiracy theories above?

Also perhaps interesting is Fuentes past - he wasn't really a gynaecologist, but was actually a steroids man. He made his (sports science) name in steroid programmes and masking agents (Delgado being a successful client). Perhaps a large one-off payment can buy you the programme, but not the expertise?
 
issoisso said:
After the A sample is positive, the rider is informed and asked whether he wants to admit guilt or ask for the B-sample to be tested. He has 30 days to make a decision.

Yes, I'm aware of the current rules. I just don't see why they are that way. Why not make the B test automatic as soon as the A sample is positive? That way nothing is public unless the positive test is confirmed.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Arnout said:
To be clear, this was Harm Kuipers speaking.

Thanks. Didn't catch the start entirely.

Further info:

By 1988, though, athletes had found a way to sabotage the older techniques, which were still effective against users of drugs other than testosterone. Diuretics, which increase the amount of water bodies release through urine, dilute the sample and make substances in it harder to detect. This time, however, the IOC was ahead of the game. It warned athletes in Seoul that year that diuretics were out of bounds, and also figured out how to identify the most common diuretics. Four athletes were caught with such compounds in their urine. Whether actual performance-enhancing drugs were present could not be determined, but since diuretics were banned, disqualification followed.

http://www.economist.com/node/21548498

So diuretics have been traceable, quite easily (?) since the early 90s.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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patrick767 said:
Why not make the B test automatic as soon as the A sample is positive? That way nothing is public unless the positive test is confirmed.
Because the athlete has the right to witness the B test being carried out (or send someone as a witness). They have a month to say they wish for the B sample to be tested. If they don't do this, the the A sample is accepted unchallenged, and the athlete has no further right of appeal.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Square-pedaller said:
Because the athlete has the right to witness the B test being carried out (or send someone as a witness). They have a month to say they wish for the B sample to be tested. If they don't do this, the the A sample is accepted unchallenged, and the athlete has no further right of appeal.

On the CN article, they are saying it is 4 days to request a B-sample test.
 

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Mar 20, 2012
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