Frank schleck

[Balabar]

Well, I guess I can believe that better than the other explanations I've seen
I am still not convinced though... other riders seem far more suspicious to me

Agreed. There is plenty to be suspicious of this tour. However, it's still pretty much a crapshoot whether you're going to be caught if you decide to dope. Fränk caught an unlucky roll of the dice.

Going back to my original point--the only reason diuretics would be in your system is if you were intentionally cheating.

The other explanations are preposterous. There are cases of supplements with undeclared ingredients, but those would be of ingredients that boost your performance. Diuretics don't boost your performance, they hinder it. You would only take it during recovery when you need to mask something and can drink plenty of water.

The poisoning argument is pretty weak. If someone got Fränk to take a pill without his knowledge, he would have been fantastically dehydrated the next day because he wouldn't know to excessively hydrate. Fränk was fine the next two stages, which suggests he was aware he ingested a diuretic and was able to take counter-measures.

 

[Balabar]

Is it standard to test for Sulfonamides? I always believed it wasn't and that, where diuretics are concerned, the focus is more on thiazide diuretics. Or will you find both (with the same test)?

Maybe that's what Fränk thought too. : )

My understanding is that they do a multi-wavelength screen of the samples to see if they detect any unusual peaks and then do compound-specific tests for confirmation.

 

[Chris85]

When are the B test results coming out? Days,weeks,months?

 

[Christian]

When are the B test results coming out? Days,weeks,months?

The day after tomorrow (Sunday)

 

[Christian]

What are the experts saying?

Two renouned doping experts give their opinion on Fränk Schleck's positive - one believes in his guilt, the other in his innocence.

Prof. Fritz Sörgel (Institute for biomedical and pharmaceutical research in Nürnberg): "A panic reaction"

"Xipamide is not produced by companies that make food supplements. The human body does not produce it. The tactic of masking something else is the only relevant question to me, even if, naturally, I can't prove it."

"If you take Xipamide, it will disappear to 95% within two days. To mask something, you must take it on short notice, for example when you know you will be tested. My theory is that in Fränk Schleck's case, it was a panic or a blackout reaction. Before the Tour I said that in 2012, maybe cyclists who don't know how things work will be caught, but no top rider. When I heard the news about Fränk Schleck, I thought I had heard wrong. I ask myself what is going on inside such a sportsman. It is simply sad from a human perspective."

"The amount of Xipamide found was extremely small. It is so small that I assume it was not necessarily taken before the Tour de France. You can compare the amount with Alberto Contador's case, even though Clenbuterol has a true doping effect. Since I know the ambition of this lab, I assume they will now also look for other substances. But this is pure speculation."

http://www.tageblatt.lu/sport/story/---Eine-Panik-Reaktion----13023441 (German)

 

[Christian]

Dr. Jean-Pierre de Mondenard (former doctor of the Tour and author of several doping-related books): "Did he dope knowingly? No!"

"The presence of Xipamide in Fränk Schleck's urine is difficult to explain. Because while it is a masking agent, the substance itself is easily detectable in urine. Therefore, if Fränk Schleck knowingly took this substance, he is either suicidal or stupid."

"To take such a substance on a Tour stage is not very intelligent either because it favours dehydration, when you have to stay as hydrated as possible during the race. But to take it as a masking agent, I repeat, doesn't make any sense because you are certain to be caught."

"The probability that he took it knowingly is very low. There are two possible scenarios. The first is a food supplement. Maybe one would have to search in this direction, maybe there was something on a countertop. The second is "doping to lose": basically, you want to make your opponent lose by trapping him. It's the oldest form of doping, even before the doping to enhance your performance. This is a product you can't find in France since 2005, so we have to see where you could buy it"

"The general director of WADA, David Howman, said in a press conference in November to the Unesco that the fight against doping was pathetic. For 258.000 tests, only 36 athletes had taken EPO. And those who were caught were boneheads. Before we caught guys on EPO and anabolics. Now we catch them for implausible stuff as it was the case for Contador, Kolobnev and Schleck."

"No, Fränk Schleck did not dope! Based on the information available to me, I have a very difficult time to believe it."

http://www.lequotidien.lu/les-sports/36520.html (French)

 

[D-Queued]

Dr. Jean-Pierre de Mondenard (former doctor of the Tour and author of several doping-related books): "Did he dope knowingly? No!"

...

"To take such a substance on a Tour stage is not very intelligent ... (French)

Paying Fuentes wasn't very intelligent either.

We should be looking at a lifetime ban here, as opposed to trying to sweep the latest case under the rug.

Dave.

 

[sniper]

...

very interesting I found this:

So according to Mondenard, framing your opponent is/has been a reality in cycling:

"The probability that he took it knowingly is very low. There are two possible scenarios. The first is a food supplement. Maybe one would have to search in this direction, maybe there was something on a countertop. The second is "doping to lose": basically, you want to make your opponent lose by trapping him. It's the oldest form of doping, even before the doping to enhance your performance. ....

Besides Schleck and perhaps Landis 2007, are there other doping cases that looked suspiciously as if somebody had been framed?

 

[Christian]

Besides Schleck and perhaps Landis 2007, are there other doping cases that looked suspiciously as if somebody had been framed?

I think he is refering to cases a long time ago, maybe also in other sports (not only cycling). I can't think of any recent cases either

 

[D-Queued]

very interesting I found this:

So according to Mondenard, framing your opponent is/has been a reality in cycling:



Besides Schleck and perhaps Landis 2007, are there other doping cases that looked suspiciously as if somebody had been framed?

Lance... he has been tested 500-600 times and never tested positive.

Tyler... he had a vanishing twin.

Genevieve Jeanson... she was too emotional to take the doping test.

Contador... bad meat.

Basso... only intended to dope.

This list is as long as the list of doping positives.

Dave.

 

[sniper]

Lance... he has been tested 500-600 times and never tested positive.

Tyler... he had a vanishing twin.

Genevieve Jeanson... she was too emotional to take the doping test.

Contador... bad meat.

Basso... only intended to dope.

This list is as long as the list of doping positives.

Dave.

ok, but mondenard I assume is referring to established cases of framing.

as for Landis, he's been more open than anybody about his doping past, yet believes he got framed. I believe he genuinely believes it (regardless of whether it genuinely happened).

all the ones you list: of course those were bullcrap excuses.

note though that fränk hasn't (yet) come up with a bullcrap excuse, instead simply stating he doesn't know how it happened, which i still find more honourable then coming up with a BS excuse a la Contador, Tyler, Basso, etc.

 

[Wergeland]

According to RTL, Frank's B-sample is positive.

 

[BYOP88]

Excellent news! Lets see his national fed try and sweep this one away.

 

[Jeanne]

According to RTL, Frank's B-sample is positive.

Wow, so it's official now - he got "poisoned"

 

[masking_agent]

I guess now its off to the "disciplinary hearings" ?? Let's hope they don't drag on for too long..

 

[zigmeister]

On the fence on this one.

First, xipamide is not easily obtained. Surely the black market will produce anything if needed. Very unusual to find this drug anywhere, particularly to act as a diuretic, which makes sense to keep weight down for climbing. A few lbs could go a long way climbing.

Next, there are well known documented FDA cases where OTC supplement companies have spiked/tainted their "performance enhancing" or "male sexual performance" supplements with real pharmaceuticals.

One example is Palo Alto Labs. Look that up. Easy to find the info. Basically they had a male sexual performance natural enhancing supplement on the market. When analyzed, whoopss...they found Sildenafil (Viagra) crushed and added to their "natural formula" to better enhance male performance!

Yes, they were putting a pharmaceutical FDA regulated drug they obtained in generic form in their stuff they sold at the local health food store and online OTC.

So, Frank could have easily taken a weight loss/performance type OTC supplement, that had God only knows what put into it to help people lose weight, thinking their drug works and to keep buying it.

Of course, Frank should know exactly what he is taking, particularly a day later after the test the past several days regarding supplements...come on, who doesn't know that?

Food, well, that is another thing, it is sometimes hard for the average person to remember exactly what they ate the day before, or two days previous, unless they eat a very strict routine diet of the same things...then you should know exactly also.

The other side of this, it sure is suspicious and not the first time we've had somebody with trace WADA banned substances and claiming tainting of something they ingested.

I think that is the genius of this type of "doping." You can find some obscure drug that will provide a benefit for you, or try to mask/flush your body of other things, then when it is found, and since it is so rare to find it, just claim you must have been poisoned or ingested tainted supplements.

Worked pretty well for Contador. He lost his TDF title, and suspended a short time. But his own country gave him a pass. I'm sure he will be loved and heralded upon his return to racing later this year!

Good luck Frank. I see a short suspension coming out of this from UCI under a year likely.

 

[Sophistic]

he was stupid enough to send Fuentes money via bank transfer...

 

[Chris85]

B test is positive. Frank Schleck just got owned. I hope he hangs up his bike, he's a disgrace to the sport.

 

[luckyboy]

I see a short suspension coming out of this from UCI under a year likely.

No way is he going to make up any plausible excuse for this. Two years out, but he should be looking at a lifetime ban after Fuentes.

 

[LaFlorecita]

note though that fränk hasn't (yet) come up with a bullcrap excuse, instead simply stating he doesn't know how it happened, which i still find more honourable then coming up with a BS excuse a la Contador, Tyler, Basso, etc.

You must've missed that he said he has been poisoned

 

[DirtyWorks]

B test is positive. Frank Schleck just got owned. I hope he hangs up his bike, he's a disgrace to the sport.

He'll be back. The Schleck's bring real money into the sport and for Pat, it's all about the money.

 

[frenchfry]

You must've missed that he said he has been poisoned

And because you choose to believe Contador's BS we should believe Schleck?

 

[hrotha]

You must've missed that he said he has been poisoned

He said he didn't take it willingly, therefore he was poisoned, which is the only other logical alternative ("poisoning" doesn't necessarily mean "someone spiked my drink!"). He said he has no idea how it happened. By contrast, Contador was sure it was the steak because of reasons.

 

[MarkvW]

I feel like Jesse in "Breaking Bad:"

transfusion
Transfusion
TRANSFUSION
Transfusion!!!

 

[BYOP88]

You must've missed that he said he has been poisoned

I'm with Flo. Frank is innocent and we must set up a fund to help him fight the evil people out there.