Frank schleck

[x0einstein0x]

Well on the day he was tested he was one of 6 "randomly" chosen plus the leader and stage winner, so with ~160 riders in the race, provided you don't win or get the maillot jaune you are looking at about a 1 in 26 chance assuming it is chosen independently of position of GC. I suspect in reality it would be higher for someone like Frank Schleck, especially if he hadn't been tested in the preceeding days, but probably still 1 in 10 at best.

Yep. To add some more detail: I've got several close family members working/volunteering as jury officials for the German Cycling Federation and they choose riders to be "randomly" tested in national competitions mainly based on a) a sudden increase in recent performance, b) estimated time since an individual rider's last test, c) rumors about riders not being clean and d) overall performance.

I assume at the TDF it works slightly differently, since they conduct way more tests, but riders would hardly ever be randomly selected for testing.

 

[Thee_chisa]

i'm sure we will still read posts in the road racing threads: "Oooh, i wish andy were here, i wish alberto were here, ooh frank schleck could destroy these riders if he were "on form", and how exciting it would be if only these riders were at the tour flying up the mountains."

the answer is: "we have no idea how good these riders really are."

look at menchov, at basso, at valverde, at cobo, at vino, at liepheimer, at...on and on. these guys are no longer the same. nor was schlecklet this year, nor -- apparently -- his brother.

how can anyone want these people back so desperately, since -- clean -- they may just be pack fodder and the real champions are riders we don't know, or are just now being able to come to the for.

i freakin' hate the schlecks and contador (and of course the sociopath), because they have ruined the fun of following the sport since we cannot know the true heirarchy.

Great post

 

[Poursuivant]

i'm sure we will still read posts in the road racing threads: "Oooh, i wish andy were here, i wish alberto were here, ooh frank schleck could destroy these riders if he were "on form", and how exciting it would be if only these riders were at the tour flying up the mountains."

the answer is: "we have no idea how good these riders really are."

look at menchov, at basso, at valverde, at cobo, at vino, at liepheimer, at...on and on. these guys are no longer the same. nor was schlecklet this year, nor -- apparently -- his brother.

how can anyone want these people back so desperately, since -- clean -- they may just be pack fodder and the real champions are riders we don't know, or are just now being able to come to the for.

i freakin' hate the schlecks and contador (and of course the sociopath), because they have ruined the fun of following the sport since we cannot know the true heirarchy.

Very good post.

 

[argyllflyer]

Why would he dope when he's 9:45 back in 12th place?

Would he get a bonus for a top 10 or something?

50,000 EURO for 'best team' classification

 

[T_S_A_R]

obviously franck was finding it hard going at 32 years old and decided to bite the bullet and start doping

 

[webbie146]

i'm sure we will still read posts in the road racing threads: "Oooh, i wish andy were here, i wish alberto were here, ooh frank schleck could destroy these riders if he were "on form", and how exciting it would be if only these riders were at the tour flying up the mountains."

the answer is: "we have no idea how good these riders really are."

look at menchov, at basso, at valverde, at cobo, at vino, at liepheimer, at...on and on. these guys are no longer the same. nor was schlecklet this year, nor -- apparently -- his brother.

how can anyone want these people back so desperately, since -- clean -- they may just be pack fodder and the real champions are riders we don't know, or are just now being able to come to the for.

i freakin' hate the schlecks and contador (and of course the sociopath), because they have ruined the fun of following the sport since we cannot know the true heirarchy.

Most of the riders u point out are just getting older. Of course they are not as good as they just to be be. That's expected.

 

[D-Queued]

This is the first time I have LOL'd at a doping positive.

Somebody blasted me the other day for observing that Frank had recovered some form miraculously after the first rest day.

Fool should face the obvious.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

50,000 EURO for 'best team' classification

To be shared amongst 23 riders and all the rest of RNST.

 

[argyllflyer]

To be shared amongst 23 riders and all the rest of RNST.

In times of famine...

 

[Turner29]

Why would he dope when he's 9:45 back in 12th place?

Would he get a bonus for a top 10 or something?

He would be even further back without it...

 

[Escarabajo]

Yeah. Bit surprised that he was caught now of all years.

Odds on a dodgy supplement defense?

He does not have money for the expensive doping because he has not made all the payments in the dodgy accounts.

 

[Escarabajo]

Why would he dope when he's 9:45 back in 12th place?

Would he get a bonus for a top 10 or something?

People dope on club rides!!!!!

People would kill to be top ten in the Tour de France. Contracts for riders are basically meaured on this positions and potential.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

This is the first time I have LOL'd at a doping positive.

Somebody blasted me the other day for observing that Frank had recovered some form miraculously after the first rest day.

Fool should face the obvious.

Dave.

Can't say I've noticed any miraculous recovery of form since the rest day. He was 12th on the Cat 1 climb on stage 7 after initially working for Zubeldia / Monfort, then 10th on the La Toussuire stage, after the rest day. He and Kloden also got dropped on the first climb a couple of days ago

 

[Catwhoorg]

Do you have a lab test every medicine you take before you put in your body to make sure the ingredients are actually what the label states? Because obviously you wouldn't want to lose your job for a positive test?

I'm not saying FS doped or didn't. I'm just wondering about the extremely high standard that we are holding cyclists/athletes too. In my opinion, it's getting out of hand for someone essentially providing us with entertainment.

No, obviously my tests are more aimed at performance degrading drugs than PEDS.

However, I diligently write everything (including Vitamin C and Krill oil capsules) on the declaration form.

then fret like crazy until I get the all clear.

I hate the process, but recognise that it is a (minor) part of my job. Pro athletes, well its a bit more major for them.

In their situation i wouldn't be taking say an aspirin without it coming from the team/official docs.

 

[Catwhoorg]

doping is a criminal offence (as it should be everywhere) in France

100% agree. Could probably be done under a broad based reading of the fraud laws in most Western nations, but I'd loathe to be the one who tried to do that prosecution.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Well on the day he was tested he was one of 6 "randomly" chosen plus the leader and stage winner, so with ~160 riders in the race, provided you don't win or get the maillot jaune you are looking at about a 1 in 26 chance assuming it is chosen independently of position of GC. I suspect in reality it would be higher for someone like Frank Schleck, especially if he hadn't been tested in the preceeding days, but probably still 1 in 10 at best.

'Random' isn't really the way the do it.

Mostly its targeted based on other information/intelligence, or risk assessments.

Maybe 1-2 days in the whole tour will it actually be truly random.

 

[Bala Verde]

say 7 hours half life. 40mgs.
7 hours 20 mgs
14 hours 10mgs
21 hours 5 mgs
28 hours 2.5 mgs
35 hours 1.25 mgs
42 hours 0.625mgs
49 hours 0.3125mgs
etc

they are going to be testing for micrograms probably (don't know how accurate UCI machines are) so that could still be in his body a week after he took it

Cheers for doing the calculations.

We don't know what test they used: urine or blood or both right?

When you use xipamide does it show up in urine/blood or both?

In case of blood?
Could he have used some variant of EPO in between the Giro [he left the giro on 20 may 20120] and TdF [start on 30 June 2012] (leaving about 1.5 month), to quickly create extra(new) bags of packed cells, while at the same time using diuretics to mask it/or flush it [it being EPO] out of his system?

Urine?
Otherwise, if it was found in his urine - and considering the halflife dictates around 7 days to be reduced to 1 microgram, which we assume tests can detect - he used a xipamide around 6, 7, 8 July to mask what? A stage win to la Planche des belles filles? But then again, if he placed well, or won there, they would have tested him anyway and they would have found diuretics.

Or as you said, someone just screwed up...

Or he had a "contaminated supplement"...

 

[durianrider]

I made a video response to the Frank Schleck situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvffRhsgQac

Share your comments.

 

[Thee_chisa]

Cheers for doing the calculations.

We don't know what test they used: urine or blood or both right?

When you use xipamide does it show up in urine/blood or both?

In case of blood?
Could he have used some variant of EPO in between the Giro [he left the giro on 20 may 20120] and TdF [start on 30 June 2012] (leaving about 1.5 month), to quickly create extra(new) bags of packed cells, while at the same time using diuretics to mask it/or flush it [it being EPO] out of his system?

Urine?
Otherwise, if it was found in his urine - and considering the halflife dictates around 7 days to be reduced to 1 microgram, which we assume tests can detect - he used a xipamide around 6, 7, 8 July to mask what? A stage win to la Planche des belles filles? But then again, if he placed well, or won there, they would have tested him anyway and they would have found diuretics.

Or as you said, someone just screwed up...

Or he had a "contaminated supplement"...

Judging from the fact he was moaning about being exhausted I'd say testosterone patch on rest day, diuretic to flush evidence after.

 

[42x16ss]

Well, well, well. It seems that the heat is rather conveniently off The Hog in regards to not paying Frank's salary....

It seems a quick call to Uncle Pat can still fix some situations.

 

[joe_papp]

"V[ery] difficult to know when somebody took a drug by just looking at concentration…

Cheers for doing the calculations.

We don't know what test they used: urine or blood or both right?

When you use xipamide does it show up in urine/blood or both?

In case of blood?
Could he have used some variant of EPO in between the Giro [he left the giro on 20 may 20120] and TdF [start on 30 June 2012] (leaving about 1.5 month), to quickly create extra(new) bags of packed cells, while at the same time using diuretics to mask it/or flush it [it being EPO] out of his system?

Urine?
Otherwise, if it was found in his urine - and considering the halflife dictates around 7 days to be reduced to 1 microgram, which we assume tests can detect - he used a xipamide around 6, 7, 8 July to mask what? A stage win to la Planche des belles filles? But then again, if he placed well, or won there, they would have tested him anyway and they would have found diuretics.

Or as you said, someone just screwed up...

Or he had a "contaminated supplement"...

Quote straight from the director of a WADA accredited lab concerning the futility of looking at drug half-life charts to try to guess when and how much of a drug was taken (based on metabolite concentration in urine):

"V[ery] difficult to know when somebody took a drug by just looking at concentration…."

It's detected in urine...

http://interesjournals.org/IRJPP/Pdf/2011/December/Gaber et al.pdf

 

[Boeing]

People dope on club rides!!!!!

People would kill to be top ten in the Tour de France. Contracts for riders are basically meaured on this positions and potential.

for sure. the number of masters riders here in the OC using Testosterone because they can afford it is shocking. we have Endocrinologist on every corner here pumping it out for ED and it doesn't even take a script really

better in the sack better in the saddle. allegedly

 

[Turner29]

I sincerely doubt a relatively uncommon diuretic would "accidentally" find its way into some supplement taken or food eaten by Schleck. Typically, such rare instances are a steroid. There are certified supplement manufacturers that undergone routine independent testing should such be a concern.

Regarding food, given teams generally eat together, it is highly unlikely that only one rider would eat something contaminated, Contador notwithstanding...

 

[rata de sentina]

Thing is I heard on tv that Xipamide is very easy to trace/detect in a test. Why would Frank use it knowing the change it's detected is high?

Well you would actually take it to reduce your chance of being caught. Faster clearance of something else means the window of opportunity to be tested is less, given the frequency of testing he might consider it a fair gamble given heś not going so good he is unlikely to be targeted. Avoiding being caught is not about using undetectable methods itś about managing the risk. This is why so many ex LA teammates ended up positive, they knew the doping techniques but didnt have the expertise to manage the risk effectively.

This is precisely why doctors and DSs need to be targeted, they don just facilitate doping they help avoid detection as well. I would like to see criminal penalties for these facilitators and more use of ban reductions to encourage riders to give evidence.

 

[rata de sentina]

I'm not saying FS doped or didn't. I'm just wondering about the extremely high standard that we are holding cyclists/athletes too. In my opinion, it's getting out of hand for someone essentially providing us with entertainment.

I agree. The whole system is discriminatory. After all stupid people are people too and athletic performance doesn´t necessarily require intelligence. These rules are biased against halfwits being able to compete in elite sport, it´s disgraceful really.