French doping agency forwards report on Armstrong...what's this about?

[Mellow Velo]

This is far more involved than a procedure gone wrong at a drug test, and it's really quite simple. This is all about the French not wanting Lance being the center of their universe for 3 weeks in July. They're determined to find a way too keep him out legally, they really couldn't bar Astana again.... and unfortunately Lance left a crack in the door for the French and they're running with it.

Do you think he would not realise he was offering them this opportunity on a plate?
He is, after all a politically astute guy.

All the more reason to ask the question: Why would he risk the Tour de France, just to have a shower?

 

[golancego]

If the tester give him the word that he can take the shower,no problem?And now hes changed his words so he can make Lance guilty..suprise,suprise!

Someone earlier wrote why he need a shower after a LITTLE ride?

I wouldn`t call i a little ride if you are riding all day long!

And hes been just through a big operation so I dont think it would be that clever move to wait that 20-30 minutes before taking a shower.I dont think any is that stupid to dont know that..

And why on earth didn`t that french tester follow to the shower if that the big problem in this case???????????????Was he afarid that he would wash Lances back

 

[velorandy]

What we need to do, is to move the Tour de Farce to another country.[/QUOTE]

YES, exactly! Tour of California in July!

 

[golancego]

I heard that Conatdor also was in shower after todays race..can he now compete on the tour??

 

[golancego]

Whats the french rules for those who want to take part on the tour?

Can the riders take any showers before july??Or whats your rules?

 

[caddisfly]

pls educate me.....

what could have happened between the time Lance left to take the shower and time the test samples (urine, blood, hair, etc) were taken that would have resulted in all negative results?

is there something he could have taken during that out-of-sight 20 min that would have acted so quickly on his system and masked *all* of his results that wouldn't have also shown up as an anomaly in the test?

I can't imagine what that would be, so educate me. If there isn't something, then WTF is this all about?

when I have done drug tests - non-sport - once I sign in, I can do what I want where I want until they call me into the room. At that point, I am in their control - empty pockets, get the pat down, wash hands, take a leak, take blood, sign the docs, etc

 

[Dr. Wattini]

MellowYellow,
"All the more reason to ask the question: Why would he risk the Tour de France, just to have a shower"
I think that is exactly what it is. You hit the nail in the head

 

[ukpaul]

pls educate me.....

what could have happened between the time Lance left to take the shower and time the test samples (urine, blood, hair, etc) were taken that would have resulted in all negative results?

is there something he could have taken during that out-of-sight 20 min that would have acted so quickly on his system and masked *all* of his results that wouldn't have also shown up as an anomaly in the test?

I can't imagine what that would be, so educate me. If there isn't something, then WTF is this all about?

when I have done drug tests - non-sport - once I sign in, I can do what I want where I want until they call me into the room. At that point, I am in their control - empty pockets, get the pat down, wash hands, take a leak, take blood, sign the docs, etc

You can do a complete blood transfusion in 20 minutes.

 

[velorandy]

MellowYellow,
"All the more reason to ask the question: Why would he risk the Tour de France, just to have a shower"
I think that is exactly what it is. You hit the nail in the head

So we are now of the thought of personal sabotage?

There has to be much more to this...

I'm sure we'll all know soon enough.

 

[caddisfly]

ignoring for the moment the odd conspiratorial "made for TV" notion of someone of having a blood kit ready to go at the drop of hat and doing a complete and undetectable blood dump and refresh in their bathroom, this would not have impacted the reading from his hair or his urine, would it?

hair, a separate system from blood, I believe is slow growing and "long showing" in terms of chemical makeup/exposure, no?

urine, yet another body system, can't be cleansed by a complete blood dump, can it?

 

[LugHugger]

Look, the reality of the situation is that LA/JB messed this up big time by leaving the test guy at the door for 20 or 30 minutes depending on who you believe. LA knows that he will be tested whilst he is in France convalescing and doing recon for the Tour. Since LA has now been tested '24 times' since September, he must know the score when it comes to test procedure. It's the same at any race or out of competition - the inspector has eyes on from the time that the competitor reports for his sample.

This is plain mismanagement by LA/JB. It's inexcusable really.

I do not believe that there is anything sinister at play here, just naivety from two guys who really should know better.

 

[caddisfly]

You can do a complete blood transfusion in 20 minutes.

ignoring for the moment the odd conspiratorial "made for TV" notion of someone of having a blood kit ready to go at the drop of hat and doing a complete and undetectable blood dump and refresh in their bathroom, this would not have impacted the reading from his hair or his urine, would it?

hair, a separate system from blood, I believe is slow growing and "long showing" in terms of chemical makeup/exposure, no?

urine, yet another body system, can't be cleansed by a complete blood dump, can it?

 

[ukpaul]

ignoring for the moment the odd conspiratorial "made for TV" notion of someone of having a blood kit ready to go at the drop of hat and doing a complete and undetectable blood dump and refresh in their bathroom, this would not have impacted the reading from his hair or his urine, would it?

hair, a separate system from blood, I believe is slow growing and "long showing" in terms of chemical makeup/exposure, no?

urine, yet another body system, can't be cleansed by a complete blood dump, can it?

All you asked was what could be done in 20 minutes.

 

[velorandy]

You can do a complete blood transfusion in 20 minutes.

I'm not sure where your going with the thought blood transfusions and if your insinuating Lance is doping? But why would he if that's your line of thought???

He'd ruin his whole LiveStrong foundation and all that he does worldwide for the cancer community. I don't buy into that line of thought at this point of time in his life. I think for him personally, his message and creditability are far too important to throw away.

We're not talking about some punk kid with no responsibilities, or some guy who needs to keep riding and get paid to make ends meet, or a guy at the twilight of their career who needs to do whatever to remain in the peloton.

Like I said earlier..... maybe 10 years ago and even who really knows about then, but now.... no way.

If your just pointing out it takes 20 minutes... never mind.

 

[Dr. Wattini]

VeloRandy,
This is why I follow cycling. Is a three ring circus, a mid afternoon soap-opera where the characters die and all of a sudden they revive. The media plays it nicely, they want to sell papers, advertisement. A circus, full of clowns!!!!

 

[MTBRaider]

You can do a complete blood transfusion in 20 minutes.

By yourself and still shower? Perhaps it's all that practice he's had preparing for this one incident.

 

[MTBRaider]

Like everyone else comentating here, I don't understand the need for Armstrong to take a shower after a little ride - unless he couldn't stand the smell of himself

Not sure if you've ever gone on an all day training ride, but for me the shower is as much about relaxing and recovery as it is cleanliness. He's a busy guy and was doing his best to manage his time.

I wonder if had asked the tester if he could go to the kitchen for a tasty chicken sandwich, with some black beans and a protein shake, would he be found guilty of evading?

 

[velorandy]

This is plain mismanagement by LA/JB. It's inexcusable really.

I do not believe that there is anything sinister at play here, just naivety from two guys who really should know better.

LA/JB have been doing this for a very long time.... if they were suspicious of this guy, I'm sure it was for a good reason. I think it's naive to think LA/JB would be naive.

 

[bianchigirl]

There are certain expectations on the tester, like carrying documentation, which the tester seems to have fulfilled. And there is an expectation on the athlete that he will stay in the testers sight at all times during the testing procedure. As a professional bike rider - and being the self styled 'most tested athlete' - Armstrong should and would know the protocol inside out. Yet he chose to ignore it. At the end of the day whether he took a shower, shagged his girlfriend or ate a sandwich is immaterial - he broke the rules, rules which he should be completely au fait with unless, like Madonna, he's simply too used to getting his own way and thinks he can ride roughshod over procedures.

He has been, to use the phrase, well and truly hoist by his own petard

 

[velorandy]

There are certain expectations on the tester, like carrying documentation, which the tester seems to have fulfilled.

"I've been tested in-competition and out-of-competition by USADA, by WADA, by the UCI, and by testing authorities at all the events in which I have competed, but I was unaware that in France the government tests athletes and takes the position it can test any athlete residing in or visiting France. I also had never heard of a laboratory (as opposed to an anti-doping organization) sending testers to collect samples.

"We asked the tester for evidence of his authority. We looked at his papers but they were far from clear or impressive and we still had significant questions about who he was or for whom he worked. I was there with Johan Bruyneel and two other people. We told the tester we wanted to check with the UCI to confirm who he was and to make sure he wasn't just some French guy with a backpack and some equipment to take my blood and urine.

Apparently though... this documentation raised some doubts to the validity of this tester. Would you subscribe to a test with someone you were unsure about before getting verification? I sure wouldn't.

 

[tiggertoo]

Not sure if you've ever gone on an all day training ride, but for me the shower is as much about relaxing and recovery as it is cleanliness. He's a busy guy and was doing his best to manage his time.

I wonder if had asked the tester if he could go to the kitchen for a tasty chicken sandwich, with some black beans and a protein shake, would he be found guilty of evading?

I do many 200K's, five this year to date; but my point was, "Why couldn't he wait twenty minutes to take that shower, what was the hurry, he knew the score?"

 

[Dr. Wattini]

VeloRandy,
The WADA rule is that if the tester shows up, you stay in his sight. Simple, right? If the papers are far from impressive and you wanted to call the UCI, wouldn't you just hang around in case the tester is legit? Randy, now you know this rule which probably is common knowledge in the pro circuit. So lets say, a tester shows up at Randy's palace to take your pee, your hair and one of your eyeballs, would you go and take a shower?
As a cyclist, you should know the rules, which is probably your best ammo for when a suspicious tester shows up.
This is no different than the cops trying to stop you over and you flying from the scene, just because you thought you were being chased by bandits...
As for the French running their own tests, go back on this threath and read MellowYellow's posting about that.

 

[velorandy]

Something is fishy about this whole thing? Some piece of this story is missing.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Maybe, this is why he's starting to realise he made a big mistake, judging from his latest "twitterings".
IMO, using twitter to fuel the fire is another big mistake.

Anyhow, for those who might like to read a pretty objective outline of the story so far......

http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news...ng_news&cate_img=145.jpg&cate_rss=news_Sports

Seems the French didn't send some wet behind the ears kid, but their top man.

 

[cyclelicious]

It’s purely a word duel at the moment, with the AFLD pointing their sword.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/10/sports/cycling/10iht-lance.html?_r=1
Asked if disciplinary moves had begun, the head of the agency said, “Not yet. We’ll see

The anti-anything Armstrong troll brigade can’t help but pee their pants and spin the words in excitement, ain’t that right…