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French doping agency forwards report on Armstrong...what's this about?

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hfer07 said:
-whereas dopers like Bernard Kohl, Pieppoly, Ricco & the entire crew that have already been busted from the 2008 TDF-they never had a solid complain or dispute case against the same Lab that LA is getting tested by -and furthermore--24 tests are too much for him?

Stefan Schumacher might disagree with you.

And let's see, 24 tests since since September (7mos), when he announced his comeback... you don't think that's a lot?

Is there a way to find out how many times other riders have been tested or who's #2 behind Lance? Unitl we know that fact 24 times in 7mos seems like an awful lot to me.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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tifosa said:
When Armstrong speaks about "I'm the most tested athlete ever in recorded history and this is what I have to endure..." or some such nonsense, this is what I hear:
'Whaaaaaa, whaaaaa, whaaaa.'
which sounds an awful lot like crying and complaining.

Jesus, Armstrong, get over yourself.


Well, I'd complain too if I was being tested more than any one else in MY sport, not to mention 24 times more than any one in the NFL, NBA MLB, Tennis, Futbol, etc... The fact is, cycling gets a bad name but they are testing the most and actually doing SOMETHING which is more than any other sport. From LA's perspective it's got to be maddening and saying "I'm the most tested athlete..." is simply stating the facts, not crying like you suggest. I'm surprised he doesn't call out the testing agency's more often. Not that he should but it would get old. :)
 
Armstrong opened his own can of worms by promising complete disclosure by way of his testing program and then backing out of it abruptly. Doubtless this heightened any suspicions that already existed. They test randomly and selectively. Selectively those whose performances seem abnormally above their history and those whose current actions raise suspicions, like people who widely advertise their intention to be completely transparent and then suddenly make an about face. Those that are supposedly more familiar with the testing protocol due to their being "the most tested in their sport" and yet still do curious things that they should know will only heighten suspicions.

Both parties are at fault but Armstrong more so since he is supposed to be a veteran of the protocol and is quick to complain about being targeted unfairly.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Forgive me for asking but does anyone have the full Catlin story? He may be a great dude but is there any mention how much $$ he was asking for? Like most things associated with LA, often times people see it as their big pay day. Not saying LA isn't at fault, just asking.
 
I notice all the American storylines lead with this 24 tests nonsense as if it were gospel.
The only source for this number is LA himself.

The answer is simple. If he's fed up and wants a quieter life, let AFLD chief Pierre Bordry re-test those 1999 samples.
Not only would the French be less likely to come calling, when he's in France, it would probably get him off the "riders targetted" list and result in fewer WADA and Fed visits.

As for his flirt with Catlin, that was just a self-promoting PR stunt that backfired.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Mitigating the risk

Dudettes and Dudes,
I cannot understand why people blame the french for this. Let's say the circumstances where the same: JB needed to call the UCI to confirm the tester was legit. If LA or JB had 1/2 brain to judge the situation and to forecast the pros and cons of LA taking a shower, LA should have been in the tester's sight 100% of the time. That way there is no way for misinterpretation or a way to spin the story even if leaked to the press. I can guarantee that LA has stood messing around his garage for hours in the same bike shorts after a long training ride. so, why did this time taking a shower is so important? He could have had JB going inside and get him his recovery drink, socks, shoes, etc. Is LA's schedule so tight that every second counts? Sadly, he is a pro-cyclist now and there is a way to play the game....
The fact of the matter here is that the poor judgement that LA and his crew showed is getting them into a pickle.
Now, look at the oposite side of the coin. When a sample is tested, there is an strict protocol to follow by the WADA authorized lab about the handling of that sample. One of Landis' defenses was exactly that, the lab did not follow protocol. Should not there be some sort of protocol for the athlete to follow after the tester arrives? i.e. never be out of sight? In fact, when a rider is picked for testing at a race, the rider would be accompanied after going over the finish line to the testing facility. The rider is not out of sight....
My point: regardless of whether or not this is fair or not, LA and his crew showed poor judgement and this is an issue now.
 
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Agreed Doc. But the Tester also should have asserted his authority and not allowed him to get out of sight. The fact that he did let Lance go out of sight would cause suspicion as to his credentials as a UCI or WADA tester probably wouldn't have been so leniant and failed him on the spot for leaving.

And being that he is a marked man I'd be suspicious of someone without the usual credentials coming up asking to test me. We already know one of his main concerns was his personal safety in France.

Although when did the AFLD start doing the random surprise testing like the UCI and WADA? Is that something fairly new or has the AFLD been doing that prior to his first retirement?
 
The AFLD have been carrying out large amounts of tests on hair samples in the homeland.
Results show almost a quarter of their soccer players came up non-negative.
Evidence:-
http://sportgeza.hu/futball/hirek/2009/03/18/sokan_doppingolnak_a_francia_futballban/
Translation.;)
A lot of players are doping in French football

MTI - Hungarian national news agency

Wed. 18 March 2009, 14:33

French experts have detected significant doping usage in French football through studies which were conducted on samples obtained from hair strands of football players in 2008. The French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD), which published results of the analysis on Wednesday, established that the footballers had clearly been doping when they took age-inhibiting - and thus physical condition-improving - hormones (so-called DHEA), with the objective of performance enhancement.

This can only be detected with difficulty in blood and urine samples, however this anabolic steroid - which also leaves traces in the skin and nails -, is not only "popular" in football in France but also - according to the testimony of the studies - in other sports, including rugby, athletics and cycling. According to the results of the tests, conducted using the AFLD "hair strand" method, 16.5% of the samples taken were positive. Within this, French footballers produced the most cases: 21.8% of those sampled had been doping. The "silver medal" went to amateur cyclists (17.6%), athletics was third (13.22) and professional cycling fourth (10.8%)


So it ain't a case of the French picking on Lance. Au contraire, it shows the are being thorough and vigorous.
Nothing more.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Gee333 said:
Agreed Doc. But the Tester also should have asserted his authority and not allowed him to get out of sight. The fact that he did let Lance go out of sight would cause suspicion as to his credentials as a UCI or WADA tester probably wouldn't have been so leniant and failed him on the spot for leaving.

And being that he is a marked man I'd be suspicious of someone without the usual credentials coming up asking to test me. We already know one of his main concerns was his personal safety in France.

Although when did the AFLD start doing the random surprise testing like the UCI and WADA? Is that something fairly new or has the AFLD been doing that prior to his first retirement?

Dude,
What you are saying here is a person should not be responsible for their own actions. Because of the same things you mention "being a targeted man" he should have been be extra careful on his personal handling. That is probably why the mafia bosses stay below the radar. They do not execute their hits, but have somebody else do it. LA knows (and you and I as cycling fans know) better than anybody else that whatever goes on in France will be leaked to the press. So with that understanding, why did LA acted the way he did? What was he trying to show
The tester not allowing LA to banish to take his shower: I am assuming that in France as in the US, no person can enter your home without a proper warrant of some sort. If LA did not grant the tester access to LA's home, what should the tester do. I guess you are suggesting the tester should have trasspassed into LA's home?
As for the AFLD doing a random test, the fact is it was done. Your safest bet is to play along and fight the legality of the testing later on unless you had the rulebook or know the rulebook at that moment.
I dont know much about doping but from the Landis case, we know that there is a post testing protocol to follow. Is there one for pre testing protocol for the athlete to follow prior a test after the arrival of the tester? should there be one? What you are saying is that if you drive a car in a 30 mile zone at 45 miles and you get a ticket by a policeman, you will tell the judge, i did not know it was a 30 mile an hour zone and the cop did not give me a warning. That is sillyness, you are supposed to know is a 30 mile zone!
You are missing my point here, whatever the circumstances were, LA knows the risks of the French. If LA would have been smart and capable to measure the risks he was taking, he perhaps should have acted differently. All I am saying is that LA and his crew did not excersice any judgement at al.
 
Mar 30, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
I notice all the American storylines lead with this 24 tests nonsense as if it were gospel.
The only source for this number is LA himself.

Thank you for this.

The Lance PR machine is to make him out to be the most tested athlete ever. He plays the victim really well and it makes me sick. He was a victim, of cancer and kudos for him for kicking it. But enough is enough.

Keeping other sports out of this (and they have their doping problems they want to ignore), I would say that Lance is not (or was not) even the most tested cyclist.

During his first stint, I would wager that the sprinters who race plenty more races and KMs than Lance ever did were tested more. But no one is going to call him out on that when he tosses his "statistics".

Regarding testing since he returned, again, we only have his words nothing actually independent.

Both Garmin and Columbia use Caitlin. Caitlin tests every Garmin rider 2 times a month, minimum. Add to that whatever the frequency of the tests the UCI performs as well as any of the other testing agencies.

Quit eating whatever the Lance PR machine feeds you.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Some excellent points Dr Wattini - one wonders exactly why Armstrong would wish to make such an obvious rule violation, and in France of all places, knowing that his TdF participation could be in doubt should ASO decide they don't need 'dopers' in their race?

One might suggest an easy get out from a race in which he knows he will end up as a laughing stock given his poor showing since the Second Coming - I believe a rider at Castille y Leon said he was handling his bike 'like a neo pro': the bike handling skills of old have hardly been in evidence.

I think this, coupled with the Ashenden article, have given Boss Hog a huge headache - usually so sure footed in their PR, there is simply too much coming out to deal effectively with. An exit strategy that leaves the Myth untouched - and, let's face it, Armstrong has never actually had to ride some races for his greatest fans to declare that he would have won them easily - so those who 'love' can always believe he would have won and those who don't won't have to have him polluting the sport any more. It's win win and on to the Governorship of Texas. Failure won't do him any favours - at the moment he is still Armstrong battling against the dirty French. If he actually rides and fails dismally there can be no excuses for a poor performance and some who have wavered may even start to think 'I wonder'.

Like MV says, he could have the 99 samples retested at a lab of his choice by his own team and that would put the whole thing to bed once and for all. Pierre Bodry must be pretty certain of the presence of EPO to offer those retests in the first place. But, alas, we'll never know. Better to walk away now when he can still play the anti French card and hope to get away with it.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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It is not the doping threads that get tedious, but the enevitably dogmatic responses therein. This latest episode is either proof that LA is doping, or proof that the French are conspiring to frame LA for doping.

No, it is impossible that the truth be somewhere in the middle. /snark
 
Apr 8, 2009
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the wrong doping story to get excited about

Lord LA has explained himself in a pretty comprehensive manner. Credible and reasonable (as always)

Isn't it up to the French authorities to prove that he was aware of their protocol and identifications....
only then is the 30minute sidestep is questionable.

24 tests since January- surprised he has any blood left- maybe he can get a TPU for some Amgen
 
paddy1 said:
Isn't it up to the French authorities to prove that he was aware of their protocol and identifications....
only then is the 30minute sidestep is questionable.

24 tests since January- surprised he has any blood left- maybe he can get a TPU for some Amgen

Is he a slow learner? After the supposed 24 tests and being the self proclaimed most tested rider in the sport (or was it "in all of sports"?) one would think he would be quite familiar with the testing protocol. If nothing else Armstrong has never been accused of lacking intelligence. You can't have it both ways.
 
Apr 6, 2009
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I think this case is similar to the whereabout case that ended up nailing Rasmussen (not that this case will end up nailing Lance though). We don't know how frequent these reports over riders "misbehaving", in one way or the other, are. As we have no idea how many riders have warnings in reference to their whereabouts. Info like this is usually confidential.
We only know about this case, because someone whent beyond their authorisation, and leaked this info. And most probably, this only happened, because Armstrong is involved. Just like the danish cycling federation broke the rules, and informed the media about Rasmussens warnings. Mainly because, I guess, Rasmussen and the federation had/have some issues.

Note that personally I'm glad that the danish federation broke the rules. The Balco affair clearly reveals that speculating in the numbers of warnings is widespread. However, it's questionable behaviour, when the authorities doesn't play by the book.

And again, we have no clue whether riders speculate in delaying these vampires, to get time to manipulate their organisms.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Armstrong left the direct and permanent observation of the testing authority for 20 minutes to "take a shower". The testing authority has a right to question his activities and whereabouts.

Armstrong isn't above reproach. It's amusing, given the myriad drug tests and drug testers that Armstrong has encountered over the span of his career (It's plausible given his nature, that he's counted every last one of them and probably has recored the tester's name, agency, day, date, time, and place), that he had to question the credentials of this one particular drug tester.

Again: Armstrong, get over yourself. Face the circumstances, whatever they may be, on your own, without Johann to run interference or your public relations people to craft an excuse.

Me thinks he doth protest too much.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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According to the figures being bandied around, Lance is tested on average once every 9 days. It doesn't strike me that this is over the top for a returning rider who was not part of the UCI passport before September 2008, committed himself to a transparent, independent programme and then dodged the commitment and is in a heavier competition schedule than he has ever submitted to before thus resulting in more tests.
Whatever you think that you know or believe about LA, there is little doubt that he does not engage his brain before opening his mouth and that somebody should lead him away from the KoolAid.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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BBC are reporting that the UCI have given the go ahead for the AFLD to pursue a sanction against Armstrong. I find it hard to believe he'll ride the Tour if that's so.

Time to walk away with the legacy as intact as possible and whilst the supporters still believe in miracles...
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Jeesus!How stupid can the French people be?Why on erth didn`t the dopingtester follow Lance to the shower????

If the dopingtester had followed Lance to the shower this problem would out of the world!!!

I hope Lance once again make the french knobheads to eat their own **** in July and ride for the 8th tour victory!

Go lance:D
 
Permission granted.

A deciding factor...

If Lance was given permission to take the shower by the tester and there is proof, then doesn't that change everything?

-0-

Also, what kinds of things can a person do in 20 minutes to cheat or hide cheating?
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Nothing will come of this. The ASO will stomp on the French testers and they will flitter away because this is silly. Armstrong is bringing in a lot of interest and money to this year's race and the ASO is all about profit.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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GCW,
It does not matter if he cheated in 20 minutes. Rassmussen never cheated with drugs (as far as we know), he just did not follow the protocol, which it was to tell the UCI where he was. Then the chicken got canned. He said he was drinking margaritas in Mexico, when he was having a Campari in Italy. So, did Rasmussen cheat, NO. He just told a little white lie (which happens to be a violation to the protocol)
The question on this Armstrong silliness is whether or not there is protocol to follow between the time of the arrival of the tester until the test sample is taken. I don't know enough to answer this question. If there is protocol and he did not comply, this is no different than the Chicken dancing mariachi music situation.
Regardless if there is protocol or not, Armstrong and the group of clowns around him show very little ability to judge the circumstances of a extremely delicate situation. They (even you and I) know the ways of the French, we know L'Equipe is a tabloid in cohuts with the Labs. So, if you and I have such understanding, why would not Armstrong have the same understanding that a couple of nobodies have?
Also don't blame the French about this. Armstrong himself decided to plant roots in France for some reason. If Armstrong would fear for his safety while in France (as he claims), or if he is concerned he may be mistreated, why did he go to train in France? He is just the biggest troll...